Why not vanillas?

[KcChiefsFan]

I was just wondering why people care so much if you make a 'vanilla' card. Not all cards used are effect monsters, and a lot of people just want to duel for fun and make cards that they like. I just don't get the point of downgrading a card because it doesn't have an effect. The point isn't to make the strongest card, right? I don't know. Just wanted to hear your guys' thoughts.

[:^)]

[img]http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/052/812/original/Deal_with_it_dog_gif.gif?1275684729[/img]

[KcChiefsFan]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1315680255' post='5505021']
This.
If people put more effort into them, they could actually be good.
Instead, we get stuff like this:
[/quote]

Haha this isn't what I had in mind when I was making my post

[quote name='Marco Polo' timestamp='1315679999' post='5505003']
What idea could there possibly be behind a vanilla?
And you're new, your judgement isn't as good.


I'm not here for vanillas, are you?

And there's nothing besides beauty in vanillas.
There's a description, but other than that there's none.
[/quote]

What makes your opinion better then mine? I may be new, but I assure you I have thousands upon thousands of cards and I can tell when a card is creative or not. And I see you didn't answer my first part of that, where you claimed that I said cards needed to be strong, and I told you I didn't. I guess that proves that you lied to prove a point.

Last thing. How is there only beauty in vanillas? Cmon man. If there was no idea behind them, every card would be 1500 ATK and DEF, 4 stars, be the same type, attribute, and have the name "Warrior". They would also have the same picture. I don't get your logic behind that.

I get what you mean when you say you're not here for vanillas. But if you had a deck without any, well I just think it wouldn't be as balanced. I understand what you mean. But some people, like me, like using normal monsters in their deck so why not post them? Whatever. If you don't like the normal monsters I'm going to post because they're normal, so you don't think they took a little thought, then don't comment on it because it did.

Once again, I know where you're coming from. Just don't get mad at my cards when I post them for being normal monsters please. (I'm not just making normals btw, just to let you know.)

[Simping For Hina]

[quote name='Marco Polo' timestamp='1315643615' post='5504218']
@strong cards ~ you thought the point of the card maker is making the strongest card, I said it isn't.
@Normal Monsters ~
1.All those Normal Monsters are bullshit, I haven't seen a single Normal card in my entire experience here which was decent +.
2.In effect cards, there's something to review; However Normals have just a description - which means we will just look at your card and decide wether it looks good or not. The card maker has a horrible template, so anyone who wishes to create normals using it - is doomed for negative comments.
Normals have to be astonishing to succeed.
[/quote]
What are you talking about? You don't have to have a perfect Normal Monster, they have been made. It is the support that makes them worth it even if they have no effect. Who cards about template? I have I think every template known by anyone for card making and i would still use the card maker template if I was bored. I don't care. It isn't all about making the most awesome looking cards, just sometihng that will help in a duel or just for the fun of it.

[Catterjune]

Yeah, and I think Konami is lazy for making Rabbi Dragon too. But I'm also including their support in the conversation.

If they made Rabbi Stream of Destruction and the Rabbi Stone of Dragon and Rabbi Ultimate Dragon and all that, I'd still think Konami was lazy as hell for making that card.

[TOM 3.5]

I don't get it either i understand it but still cards don't need support if they can be used for fusion or something else and don't listen to people who make fun of them cause on one of my threads some guy named aggrodrago was being a jerk and put the lore as bla bla bla for one my cards that is going to be later very important for a big summoning and it ended up the mod came in and just proved him an idiot for thinking that the thread wasn't legit and he was also dumb enough he fought just because my cards where pop culture cards in written form he said they didn't belong in the forum.

One thing to remember is some of the best cards are vannila in way.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

[quote name='Marco Polo' timestamp='1315643615' post='5504218']
1.All those Normal Monsters are bullshit, I haven't seen a single Normal card in my entire experience here which was decent +.
[/quote]
Then you have no point in being here. Good day sir.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='KcChiefsFan' timestamp='1315435616' post='5498731']

I know what you guys mean. But I don't agree with it... for people who aren't into doing tournaments and stuff, and duel for fun, like me, why not have normal monsters? I have about 35 decks I use with my siblings and friends and a lot of them are 'replica' decks of Yugi's, Kaiba's, etc. So I use vanillas alot. Just doesn't make sense to me. This post wasn't to get mad at people, just to find out people's thoughts. Thanks for the comment.
[/quote]
This is because you play casually. When you make cards, why do something that has been done? The whole point of the card maker is to be creative and do things Konami hasn't, or won't do. If your just making normal monsters their is only so much you can do to try to break the mold, so unless you have a bunch of normal support sets just of normal monsters.

[quote name='KcChiefsFan' timestamp='1315435879' post='5498736']

Hmm..... Does that mean Konami is lazy for creating cards like Blue Eyes White Dragon and Dark Magician, arguably the most popular cards in the game when the anime was running? I know what you mean though, and I agree with you. But for the people that do actually try hard and make good ones, I don't get why they are bashed by people. Thanks for the comment.

So, if you create a whole series of cards like the Harpie Lady cards, would that get bad reviews? Sorry for all this, I made a lot of cards and am going to post some so I just want to know what to expect from the 'reviewers'.
[/quote]
Thing is, back in the day, those were two of the best cards. Now the game is ruled by effects and why run a simply beatstick if you can get a beatstick plus? Yes, you still can use them (I have a BEWD deck on DN) but making things that are stickily worse versions of other cards just isn't interesting. And, imho, going
[quote]
Mario
LV 4
A world class plumber, he has saved Princess Peach more times then you can count.
1900/1000
[/quote]
isn't trying that hard. I personally find it a lot more challenging, and fun, to think of how to make an image or character into a card.

And, again, making support for an archetype is good. Using Blue Eyes as the example, I can make a deck around him because he has so much support both direct and type based.

[вєgσттєη ιηѕαηιту]

[quote name='KcChiefsFan' timestamp='1315683897' post='5505168']

Maybe not you, but some people do. I remember when I made this post, there was something that I just looked at that had like 7 cards. They were all really good, but a few people commented saying... "You have some good cards, but vanillas? 1/10". That's why I made this post.
[/quote]

Disregard negative comments from low level members, typically (not always) low level members arent really activave and barely know much about the game, so dont let them get to you. Higher level members realize the importance of all cards.

[Yankee]

Like I said, if you have good flavor text and a good pic, it's a good card. However, many members have begun to ignore this, having seen vanilla's be destroyed since they first join the site. They automatically assume they are bad, simply for being vanilla.

[Catterjune]

[quote name='KcChiefsFan' timestamp='1315435879' post='5498736']
Hmm..... Does that mean Konami is lazy for creating cards like Blue Eyes White Dragon and Dark Magician, arguably the most popular cards in the game when the anime was running?
[/quote]
If Blue Eyes and Dark Magician (and their support) never existed, and then suddenly everything came in the next new booster, yeah, I'd think Konami were lazy for making them.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

[quote name='No. 34 Terror-Byte' timestamp='1315689194' post='5505338']

Disregard negative comments from low level members, typically (not always) low level members arent really activave and barely know much about the game, so dont let them get to you. Higher level members realize the importance of all cards.
[/quote]
Level doesn't mean sh*t. Disregard anybody commenting on a card that says "Vanilla's suck 1/10". Just means they see the template and make huge assumptions.

[KcChiefsFan]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1315441350' post='5498919']
This is because you play casually. When you make cards, why do something that has been done? The whole point of the card maker is to be creative and do things Konami hasn't, or won't do. If your just making normal monsters their is only so much you can do to try to break the mold, so unless you have a bunch of normal support sets just of normal monsters.


Thing is, back in the day, those were two of the best cards. Now the game is ruled by effects and why run a simply beatstick if you can get a beatstick plus? Yes, you still can use them (I have a BEWD deck on DN) but making things that are stickily worse versions of other cards just isn't interesting.

And, again, making support for an archetype is good. Using Blue Eyes as the example, I can make a deck around him because he has so much support both direct and type based.
[/quote]

Yeah, I get what you mean. I'm just saying me, as a casual player, and all my friends use normal cards. Why not post some created ones that are creative, and some that fit into an archetype, like what you said as an example, a Blue Eyes archetype?

I think my post was taken a bit out of context. I was just wanting to see the more experienced people's thoughts on normal monsters being created. I understand that they take less creativity, but sometimes people's posts fit into a larger set and stuff which seems to be misunderstood by some people. Thanks for your help, I get it now. Thanks again.

[KcChiefsFan]

[quote name='Miror B.' timestamp='1315633793' post='5504132']
That's NOT what she was saying. What she was saying is that, if Dark Magician and Blue Eyes had never been made or shown in the first season of the anime, then released them and their support in Photon Shockwave (this being the first time they would have ever been seen), she would see them as lazy for making them.
[/quote]

Oh okay. Thanks for clearing that up- what my impression was, was that she was saying her cards were more creative and everything.

[quote name='Marco Polo' timestamp='1315643615' post='5504218']
@strong cards ~ you thought the point of the card maker is making the strongest card, I said it isn't.
@Normal Monsters ~
1.All those Normal Monsters are bullshit, I haven't seen a single Normal card in my entire experience here which was decent +.
2.In effect cards, there's something to review; However Normals have just a description - which means we will just look at your card and decide wether it looks good or not. The card maker has a horrible template, so anyone who wishes to create normals using it - is doomed for negative comments.
Normals have to be astonishing to succeed.
[/quote]

@Strong-Show me where I said that. I NEVER said that. You don't have to make up damn lies to prove a point.
@ Normal monsters- And sometimes people post cards that were an idea they had and they wanted to show people. Not just because they think 'ooh this card is sooooo strong'. And I've been here for about a month and seen several good normal monsters.

[Sondance]

I can only make vanilla cards. So I'm with you on this one. But most people like to see the awesome effect on the monster card. well I do. =D

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='KcChiefsFan' timestamp='1315442170' post='5498949']
Yeah, I get what you mean. I'm just saying me, as a casual player, and all my friends use normal cards. Why not post some created ones that are creative, and some that fit into an archetype, like what you said as an example, a Blue Eyes archetype?

I think my post was taken a bit out of context. I was just wanting to see the more experienced people's thoughts on normal monsters being created. I understand that they take less creativity, but sometimes people's posts fit into a larger set and stuff which seems to be misunderstood by some people. Thanks for your help, I get it now. Thanks again.
[/quote]
If your going to add normal monsters to an archetype they need to belong their.

And yea, I'm fine with sets having vanillas. I'm a big MTG player and one of the head designers rules is that ever set should have a common vanilla for each color (meaning 5 total). If your talking about 30 some thing cards having one or two normals to reinforce themes and what not is often important.

[вєgσттєη ιηѕαηιту]

[quote name='KcChiefsFan' timestamp='1315362948' post='5497663']
I was just wondering why people care so much if you make a 'vanilla' card. Not all cards used are effect monsters, and a lot of people just want to duel for fun and make cards that they like. I just don't get the point of downgrading a card because it doesn't have an effect. The point isn't to make the strongest card, right? I don't know. Just wanted to hear your guys' thoughts.
[/quote]
Most people get upset only if you post one vanilla monster in a thread, and that is it. Because Vanilla's have nothing about them to say is good or bad, nothing to review. If they are used in a set, Vanilla's are actually a great source of field protection.

[Flame Dragon]

If you going to make a vanilla it need to fit into the set your making. If your trying to fill a numbers hole (like if your set doesn't have any +2000 DEF monsters), want to cross some themes, having 1 or 2 isn't bad. It is as Pika said, they actually need to have a reason to exist since why play them when you can just use another monster that has an effect.

[Alice Moonstone]

I like them kinda cards to but every time I made one some one would be nasty about it.

[KcChiefsFan]

[quote name='Sondance' timestamp='1315363270' post='5497680']
I can only make vanilla cards. So I'm with you on this one. But most people like to see the awesome effect on the monster card. well I do. =D
[/quote]

Yeah I mean that's cool and all, but for people just trying to make cards for fun and they get criticized for making a normal monster, which are still, contrary to some people's belief, still prevalent? I just don't get that.

[Simping For Hina]

[quote name='Marco Polo' timestamp='1315660252' post='5504363']
Even a Normal without support can be astonishing.
And he is obviously speaking about normals with no support and tweaks around them.

The template is 50% of the card's design, and the whole point of Normals is making them look good.
[/quote]

A template is 50% of making a Vanilla? Where are you learning this? It is not, you clearly only like the beauty of cards.

[KcChiefsFan]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1315434919' post='5498719']
If you going to make a vanilla it need to fit into the set your making. If your trying to fill a numbers hole (like if your set doesn't have any +2000 DEF monsters), want to cross some themes, having 1 or 2 isn't bad. It is as Pika said, they actually need to have a reason to exist since why play them when you can just use another monster that has an effect.
[/quote]

I know what you guys mean. But I don't agree with it... for people who aren't into doing tournaments and stuff, and duel for fun, like me, why not have normal monsters? I have about 35 decks I use with my siblings and friends and a lot of them are 'replica' decks of Yugi's, Kaiba's, etc. So I use vanillas alot. Just doesn't make sense to me. This post wasn't to get mad at people, just to find out people's thoughts. Thanks for the comment.

[Marco Polo]

Even a Normal without support can be astonishing.
And he is obviously speaking about normals with no support and tweaks around them.

The template is 50% of the card's design, and the whole point of Normals is making them look good.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

If you're dueling for fun and want to use Normal monsters, use Vorse Raider or Luster Dragon, don't make a new Vanilla just to make something with 1900 ATK.

Now if you make a Vanilla FIRE monster with 1900 ATK and 200 DEF, then yeah it'll get some good reviews because it already has all the Flamvell support.

[KcChiefsFan]

[quote name='PikaPerson01' timestamp='1315397009' post='5498042']
There are only 5 things that matter that you can customize on a Vanilla monster. It's attack, it's defense, it's attribute, it's type and it's level.

The best way to do a vanilla would be to make some really, really clever support for it, but people usually think that just means "equips" or some garbage like that. But just a pure vanilla and nothing else? It just reeks of laziness and unoriginality.
[/quote]

Hmm..... Does that mean Konami is lazy for creating cards like Blue Eyes White Dragon and Dark Magician, arguably the most popular cards in the game when the anime was running? I know what you mean though, and I agree with you. But for the people that do actually try hard and make good ones, I don't get why they are bashed by people. Thanks for the comment.

[quote name='Miror B.' timestamp='1315435754' post='5498734']
If you're dueling for fun and want to use Normal monsters, use Vorse Raider or Luster Dragon, don't make a new Vanilla just to make something with 1900 ATK.

Now if you make a Vanilla FIRE monster with 1900 ATK and 200 DEF, then yeah it'll get some good reviews because it already has all the Flamvell support.
[/quote]

So, if you create a whole series of cards like the Harpie Lady cards, would that get bad reviews? Sorry for all this, I made a lot of cards and am going to post some so I just want to know what to expect from the 'reviewers'.

[вєgσттєη ιηѕαηιту]

Like i said, people ONLY have an issue when people post only normals because there isnt much to comment on, if its not just normals, then no one has an issue