Anna Day <3 [Superdreadnought Train Gustav Max]

[Dementuo]

[img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120109151851/yugioh/images/thumb/a/a3/SuperDreadnoughtCannonExpressGustaphMax-VE06-JP-UR.jpg/458px-SuperDreadnoughtCannonExpressGustaphMax-VE06-JP-UR.jpg[/img]

Discuss our next possible JUMP promo.

[Zektor]

It will make hieratics have a monster that can deal MASSIVE burn. I want the alpaca promo just because but I could probably use Sirius the blue star.

[Toffee.]

If this becomes censored into a giant laser gun, it would still look pretty badass.

[~British Soul~]

for the love of....i really don't want this to be released in TCG......yet

mind you i kinda knew a topic on this would crop up at some point today

[Blake]

It deserves to be banned because it only exists to support absurd OTKs. Name one deck that can consistently use it outside of an OTK.

And whoever wants this in the TCG should be shipped to Mexico.

[mido9]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1337455941' post='5942668']
It deserves to be banned because it only exists to support absurd OTKs. Name one deck that can consistently use it outside of an OTK.
[/quote]
I was just about to say this.

[Thomas★Zero]

Becomes even more OP'ed with XYZ Unit Making it a 5000 ATK beatstick which can deal a total of 6000 within the space of 3 turns.

[Resident Fascist]

[quote name='kingdom Neos' timestamp='1337456158' post='5942671']
Becomes even more OP'ed with XYZ Unit Making it a 5000 ATK beatstick which can deal a total of 6000 within the space of 3 turns.
[/quote]

That's not the point. The point is it's an OTK Machine and should never be released here for the sake of Hierios not getting their bullshit OTK.

[Synchronized]

I want it, because I'm trying to build Hieratics. I'm all in favor of it, to be honest.

[Blake]

[quote name='ɢαlαхy' timestamp='1337457262' post='5942692']
I want it, because I'm trying to build Hieratics. I'm all in favor of it, to be honest.
[/quote][img]http://www.antidoughnutparty.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/deported.jpg[/img]

Seriously, if you want this in the TCG, you are an idiot. Truly.

You're just asking for more of a clusterf*** in the metagame than it already is with a speedy ass OTK that requires two cards to get a field of beaters. This being here is the worst thing that could happen to the game at the moment.

[Dementuo]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1337457456' post='5942696']
[img]http://www.antidoughnutparty.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/deported.jpg[/img]

Seriously, if you want this in the TCG, you are an idiot. Truly.

You're just asking for more of a clusterf*** in the metagame than it already is with a speedy ass OTK that requires two cards to get a field of beaters. This being here is the worst thing that could happen to the game at the moment.
[/quote]
You fail to realize that Hieratics can be stopped by anything. Veiler, Maxx "C", Trag, Gorz, D.D. Crow (Possibly)... About every single hand-trap currently run in this format.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be bad for the metagame to give Hieratics their true boss monster, but no one is an idiot for wanting Gustaph.

[Blake]

[quote name='Dementuo Black Sun' timestamp='1337457765' post='5942700']
You fail to realize that Hieratics can be stopped by anything. Veiler, Maxx "C", Trag, Gorz, D.D. Crow (Possibly)... About every single hand-trap currently run in this format.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be bad for the metagame to give Hieratics their true boss monster, but no one is an idiot for wanting Gustaph.
[/quote]
You fail to realize that Shi En can die to Solemn Warning.

Arguing that counters exist is stupid. What if you don't open Veiler? YOU LOSE. No one Mains Maxx "C", they do /not/ lose to Gorz and rarely lose to Trago, unless it's after a Maxx "C". D.D. Crow seems invalid because you need 2 of it/Chain disappearance and a Crow/etc. to stop them. That's all of 1 option plus Solemns and Torrential.

Wanting Gustav in the TCG is absolute idiocy.

[Dementuo]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1337457966' post='5942704']
You fail to realize that Shi En can die to Solemn Warning.

Arguing that counters exist is stupid. What if you don't open Veiler? YOU LOSE. No one Mains Maxx "C", they do /not/ lose to Gorz and rarely lose to Trago, unless it's after a Maxx "C". D.D. Crow seems invalid because you need 2 of it/Chain disappearance and a Crow/etc. to stop them. That's all of 1 option plus Solemns and Torrential.

Wanting Gustav in the TCG is absolute idiocy.
[/quote]
I'm not arguing that Heiros are bad because they can be countered. I'm making a point that they can be countered by numerous things, [b]should the Heiro player go first[i].[/i][/b]
Again, I'm not saying that Hieros are, by any means, good for the metagame. Yet Heiros don't top. They don't do well in Tournaments simply because of all the flaws they have as a deck type. The Gishki Hybrid is the same way, too.

And I want Gustaph in TCG because I like the card and I want a copy to have as a funny tech in Dragons. Does that make me an idiot?

[Blake]

[quote name='Dementuo Black Sun' timestamp='1337458594' post='5942708']
I'm not arguing that Heiros are bad because they can be countered. I'm making a point that they can be countered by numerous things, [b]should the Heiro player go first[i].[/i][/b]
Again, I'm not saying that Hieros are, by any means, good for the metagame. Yet Heiros don't top. They don't do well in Tournaments simply because of all the flaws they have as a deck type. The Gishki Hybrid is the same way, too.

And I want Gustaph in TCG because I like the card and I want a copy to have as a funny tech in Dragons. Does that make me an idiot?
[/quote]
They don't do well in the OCG. They might do a lot better in the TCG, especially considering Cardcar D is only run in the OCG at times because they don't have TGU. The TCG is a completely different game, so you can't just say they'll be bad here before they get here and perform, and there's no reason to bring an OTK King over to hurt the game.

It's an idiotic thing to want, because you're basically saying "I don't care about the metagame and how much this will further damage it, I just want my collector's item", which is as bad as Konami's banlist. Not that they make a bad banlist, just that they say "We'll just print more broken stuff so people will have to buy it, then kill it off and make them buy more", whereas a good banlist should be "Fuuuu we screwed up, fix it". Barcgal.

[Dementuo]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1337458838' post='5942712']
They don't do well in the OCG. They might do a lot better in the TCG, especially considering Cardcar D is only run in the OCG at times because they don't have TGU. The TCG is a completely different game, so you can't just say they'll be bad here before they get here and perform, and there's no reason to bring an OTK King over to hurt the game.

It's an idiotic thing to want, because you're basically saying "I don't care about the metagame and how much this will further damage it, I just want my collector's item", which is as bad as Konami's banlist. Not that they make a bad banlist, just that they say "We'll just print more broken stuff so people will have to buy it, then kill it off and make them buy more", whereas a good banlist should be "Fuuuu we screwed up, fix it". Barcgal.
[/quote]
Addressing the first part:
You probably already know this, but TGU isn't run in Heiros. At all. So far, there have yet to be any TCG exclusives I've seen that really alter the gameplay of Heiros. When one gets made that actually [i]does[/i] make then significantly better, or someone else comes up with a far superior build than the one most Hiero players currently use, then you'll be right. Until then, Heiros are played little-to-no different than in the OCG.

Addressing the second part:
Do the Heiro OTKs hurt the metagame? Yes. Do they do well in Tournaments? No.
Can they function without Gustaph Max? Does Gustaph Max make the OTK easier? Yes. Does the absence of Gustaph make the OTK near-impossible? No.
And Vanguard is drastically different from Yugioh.

[Blake]

[quote name='Dementuo Black Sun' timestamp='1337459320' post='5942718']
Addressing the first part:
You probably already know this, but TGU isn't run in Heiros. At all. So far, there have yet to be any TCG exclusives I've seen that really alter the gameplay of Heiros. When one gets made that actually [i]does[/i] make then significantly better, or someone else comes up with a far superior build than the one most Hiero players currently use, then you'll be right. Until then, Heiros are played little-to-no different than in the OCG.

Addressing the second part:
Do the Heiro OTKs hurt the metagame? Yes. Do they do well in Tournaments? No.
Can they function without Gustaph Max? Does Gustaph Max make the OTK easier? Yes. Does the absence of Gustaph make the OTK near-impossible? No.
And Vanguard is drastically different from Yugioh.
[/quote]
That's because it's the OCG. If you notice, a lot of OCG decks get revamped when they come to the TCG and get new variants, despite being tested online. Hieros don't top in the TCG because they don't have Gustav. That's the ONLY difference. Once Gustav gets here, they'll start topping, but you seem to care more about your collection than the health of the game.

You're as bad as Tewart with the "It doesn't top wdgaf". It's terrible for the game. It's selfish to want it to come here just to collect it. Want a collectable? 15 and 40 fit that bill nicely.

BTW, the OTK is virtually impossible with Gustaph. It is their failsafe, their finisher, their everything. Without it, pure Hieratics are signifigantly worse and Ninjaratics are the best variant. Those aren't run in the OCG for a good reason.

Banlists are MEANT to be used like CFV does, was the point. Yugioh just uses it as a money scheme, more often than not, though the lists are good usually.

[Dementuo]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1337459733' post='5942725']
That's because it's the OCG. If you notice, a lot of OCG decks get revamped when they come to the TCG and get new variants, despite being tested online. Hieros don't top in the TCG because they don't have Gustav. That's the ONLY difference. Once Gustav gets here, they'll start topping, but you seem to care more about your collection than the health of the game.

You're as bad as Tewart with the "It doesn't top wdgaf". It's terrible for the game. It's selfish to want it to come here just to collect it. Want a collectable? 15 and 40 fit that bill nicely.

BTW, the OTK is virtually impossible with Gustaph. It is their failsafe, their finisher, their everything. Without it, pure Hieratics are signifigantly worse and Ninjaratics are the best variant. Those aren't run in the OCG for a good reason.

Banlists are MEANT to be used like CFV does, was the point. Yugioh just uses it as a money scheme, more often than not, though the lists are good usually.
[/quote]
I never said I didn't care about the metagame nor did I say I cared more about collection purposes.

At this point, it seems like you're going to continue to be too stubborn to accept anything else. After Gustaph hits TCG and [i]if[/i] Heiros start topping, then I'll say "OK, Black was right."
Yet until then, my argument stands.

And on the whole banlist thing:
Is Konami bad at making banlists? Yes. I'm not disputing that at all. This format's banlist is absolute sh*t. Yet that's the reality of it.

And I ask you again. Am I an idiot like, as you say, Kevin Tewart, because I find the card to be a cool tech, despite the fact that it somewhat hurts the metagame by allowing Hieros an easier OTK? A simple "Yes" or "No" is all I'm asking for here.

[Blake]

[quote name='Dementuo Black Sun' timestamp='1337460020' post='5942728']
And I ask you again. Am I an idiot like, as you say, Kevin Tewart, because I find the card to be a cool tech, despite the fact that it somewhat hurts the metagame by allowing Hieros an easier OTK? A simple "Yes" or "No" is all I'm asking for here.
[/quote]
I answered you a while ago.

Yes, it is idiotic to want the thing that gives Hieratics everything they are lacking, especially when every single use this card has is an OTK. It's a bannable card that shouldn't exist. I said it in my first post, name 1 deck that can consistently use this that isn't an OTK.

[Dementuo]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1337460193' post='5942732']
I answered you a while ago.

Yes, it is idiotic to want the thing that gives Hieratics everything they are lacking, especially when every single use this card has is an OTK. It's a bannable card that shouldn't exist. I said it in my first post, name 1 deck that can consistently use this that isn't an OTK.
[/quote]
Alright then. I guess you'll spend the rest of your time here looking at me like an idiot, if you're really so stubborn.

And also, Disaster Dragons.

[Blake]

[quote name='Dementuo Black Sun' timestamp='1337460283' post='5942734']
Alright then. I guess you'll spend the rest of your time here looking at me like an idiot, if you're really so stubborn.

And also, Disaster Dragons.
[/quote]
Not you as a whole, but this choice is sheer idiocy.

So you're willing to give up 2 REDRUM in any case that isn't going to be an OTK? I can't imagine you would, so it's basically just gonna be watered down hieratics. Get out a bunch of beaters, Get this as back up, swing, detach for final burn.

[Agro]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1337455520' post='5942659']
If this becomes censored into a giant laser gun, it would still look pretty badass.
[/quote]I honestly think it'd look MORE badass.

[Dementuo]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1337460436' post='5942736']
Not you as a whole, but this choice is sheer idiocy.

So you're willing to give up 2 REDRUM in any case that isn't going to be an OTK?
[/quote]
Glad to hear it, despite it being nothing more than an opinion of yours.

I have, but not for the purpose of OTKing.
There have been plenty of times where I've needed a final push, and Gustaph provides it nicely.

[Agro]

Gustaph is only an OTK machine because the way to bring it out makes it as such. If you think about it, there are two ways that aren't considered absurd. Gishki and Hieratics. Hieratics use it to OTK because they can also put out 2 Gaia Dragon and 2 REDMD as its materials. Gishki can do it because they can put out 2 Zeal Gigas. Gustaph is a victim of the Xyz problem. It's a card that needs ridiculously high level monsters, supposedly to make it tougher to bring out, but because some decks can do it easily, while also making the setup able to inflict a helluva lot of damage, it makes it "only built for OTKs".

[Blake]

[quote name='Aggro' timestamp='1337461003' post='5942741']
Gustaph is only an OTK machine because the way to bring it out makes it as such. If you think about it, there are two ways that aren't considered absurd. Gishki and Hieratics. Hieratics use it to OTK because they can also put out 2 Gaia Dragon and 2 REDMD as its materials. Gishki can do it because they can put out 2 Zeal Gigas. Gustaph is a victim of the Xyz problem. It's a card that needs ridiculously high level monsters, supposedly to make it tougher to bring out, but because some decks can do it easily, while also making the setup able to inflict a helluva lot of damage, it makes it "only built for OTKs".
[/quote]
Uh, no.

The fact is, it will NEVER be worth the effort as anything except an OTK/Game Ender machine. It's stats aren't worth 2 level 10s, usually, and its effect is lacking. It's only built for OTKs because, if Konami had thought ahead, things that burn like this are ALWAYS bad design, especially with Mediocre stats for something that costs 2 big monsters. If it had a different effect than 2K burn, it'd be a completely different story. Oh, and there's the fact that, despite its stats sucking for the effort, it's JUST ENOUGH to laugh at Gorz/Tragoedia.

They had to have known the monster they designed.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1337461303' post='5942744']
They had to have known the monster they designed.
[/quote]

They probably do know. They probably just don't care about how broken it is.