byak Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 [b]Forbidden:[/b] Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Blackwing - Kalut the Moonshadow . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Dark Armed Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Elemental HERO Stratos . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Exodia the Forbidden Once . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Honest . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Inzektor Hornet . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Judgment Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Mask of Darkness . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Morphing Jar . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Wind-Up Hunter . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Leviair the Sea Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Cyber Twin Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Naturia Exterio . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Ryu-Senshi . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Card Destruction . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Final Countdown . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Future Fusion . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Gateway of the Six . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Monster Reborn . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] One for One . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Pot of Avarice . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Royal Tribute . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Secret Barrel . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] [b]Limited:[/b] Dark Magician of Chaos . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden)[/i] Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Magician of Faith . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden)[/i] Master Hyperion . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Constellar Ptolemys Messier 7 . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Six Samurai United . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Hieratic Seal of Convocation . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Rekindling . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] [b]Semi-Limited:[/b] Dandylion . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Debris Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Tour Guide From the Underworld . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Rescue Rabbit . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Charge of the Light Brigade . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] [b]Unlimited:[/b] Archlord Kristya . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Blackwing - Gale the Whirlwind . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Destiny Hero - Malicious . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Gladiator Beast Bestiari . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Marshmallon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Neo-Spacian Grand Mole . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Necro Gardna . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Spore . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden)[/i] Summoner Monk . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] T.G. Striker . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] The Agent of Mystery - Earth . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Tragoedia . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Tribe-Infecting Virus . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden)[/i] Tsukuyomi . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden)[/i] Book of Moon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Destiny Draw . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Level Limit - Area B . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Magical Stone Excavation . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Metamorphosis . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden)[/i] Primal Seed . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Scapegoat . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Shien's Smoke Signal . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Swords of Revealing Light . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Bottomless Trap Hole . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Mirror Force . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Time Seal . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden)[/i] Torrential Tribute . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] [b]MATHS[/b] [b]25 cards were banned[/b] 13 limited cards were banned 1 semi-limited card was banned 11 unlimited cards were banned [b]8 cards were limited[/b] 2 forbidden cards were limited 6 unlimited cards were limited [b]5 cards were semi-limited[/b] 3 limited cards were semi-limited 2 unlimited cards were semi-limited [b]28 cards were unlimited[/b] 5 forbidden cards were unlimited 9 limited cards were unlimited 14 semi-limited cards were unlimited [b]The forbidden section...[/b] - lost 7 cards - gained 25 cards - total: +18 [b]The limited section...[/b] - lost 24 cards - gained 8 cards - total: -16 [b]The semi-limited section...[/b] - lost 15 cards - gained 5 cards - total: -10 [b]The unlimited section...[/b] - lost 19 cards - gained 28 cards - total: +9 The aim of this banlist is to move itself towards more of a 3-0 style list without making it a true 3-0 list. This is noted by the forbidden and unlimited sections gaining cards and the semilimited and limit sections losing cards while still retaining a small population. This banlist also takes a personal bias over the unlimiting of Destiny HERO - Malicious and adjusts accordingly. [b]The Forbidden Section:[/b] The aim of this section for this format was to obviously eliminate problem cards completely. There are cards such as Inzektor Hornet and Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon that can't exist at all in this format because of their searchability. To be more specific on Inzektor Hornet, Hornet influences deckbuilding all by itself and thus should not exist. Leviair the Sea Dragon was also removed to nerf Dino Rabbit and because Tour Guide From the Underworld still exists at a maximum of two copies, but more on that later. Once the main problems were removed, other small problems were also considered so that they don't take the same place as the previous problems did. Cards like Gateway of the Six, Wind-Up Hunter, Card Destruction, Judgment Dragon, and Final Countdown were axed for precautionary purposes. If Inzektors, Dragons, and Rabbit were nerfed, then those other decks would seemingly take their place and people would begin to complain about them even more. After hitting the primary and secondary problems, it was necessary to consider some more changes as a result of the new limited, semi-limited, and unlimited changes. One main example is the unlimiting of Metamorphosis. With Metamorphosis at 3, cards like Naturia Exterio and Cyber Twin Dragon become part of swift OTK and control decks and were pre-emptively hit to prevent those from happening. Ryu Senshi is a weaker example but with the buff that traps get, this card seems counterintuitive to the format and arguably should not exist. Cards like Monster Reborn and Pot of Avarice were banned for obvious reasons, and due to the return of Dark Magician of Chaos and Magician of Faith. Mask of Darkness and Morphing Jar also took hits because of Tsukuyomi, and all Morphing Jar supports are overextending, bad Dark World decks, and burn decks. Lastly, Blackwing - Kalut the Moonshadow and Honest were both hit due to their unfair design. Elemental HERO Stratos was banned because of Miracle Fusion/Fusion Gate + Elemental HERO The Shining abuse, and the fact that it could search Destiny Hero - Malicious. Still not convinced that Judgment Dragon, Dark Armed Dragon, and Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon should be banned? [center][img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120207082932/yugioh/images/thumb/2/2b/EclipseWyvern-SDDC-EN-SR-1E.jpg/300px-EclipseWyvern-SDDC-EN-SR-1E.jpg[/img][/center] This motherf***er is [i]partially[/i] to blame. [b]The Limited Section:[/b] The limited section aims to conquer three goals. The first goal is to serve as the landing spot for a few banned cards that don't deserve to remain banned anymore. These are Magician of Faith and Dark Magician of Chaos. With the banning of Monster Reborn and Pot of Avarice, it seems suitable for Dark Magician of Chaos and Magician of Faith to return. Dark Magician of Chaos requires slight to major deck dedication and Magician of Faith isn't as fast as it was back in 2005. They both can fetch good Spell Cards like Dark Hole, Heavy Storm, etc but they're not entirely game changing. Once again, if they're not [i]managable[/i], they'll be sent back. The second goal is to once again, pre-emptively hurt certain decks. The limited section takes Master Hyperion, Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World, and Hieratic Seal of Convocation down to one. The Master Hyperion nerf is managable since Agent decks regain The Agent of Mystery - Earth and can potentially unlock some new plays with the new cards in this format. Grapha doesn't deserve to be at 3. A typical duelist shouldn't have to deal with multiple Graphas on the field, and also should not have to deal with the multiple destruction effects. With the retaining consistency and existence of Grapha, the deck is definitely still playable. Hieratic Seal of Convocation was hit because Hieratics have a lot of undetermined power in this format, due to Malicious and Metamorphosis both going back to 3. Those two cards could unlock a whole new arsenal of combos for the deck. Six Samurai United was also limited because Have You Read Pot of Greed? [s]Finally, the banlist attempts to solve the problem of the notorious triple MST single Heavy Storm issue. Both ideas were conflicting with each other, and in the end I felt it was better to keep Heavy Storm so Mystical Space Typhoon fell back down to one. Another pre-emptive hit was on Night Beam, a card that allows players to remove backrows during the turn they draw it and proceed to overextend.[/s] I'm really lazy and I don't want to write more stuff but Tour Guide is semilimited to prevent the issue of going Tour Guide -> Sangan without deck dedication, I like Destiny HERO Malicious because he's a coolass motherf***er, and a lot of stuff was unlimited because they're not good enough to be on the banlist. I want feedback give it to me also test this format if it's not balanced it should still be fun as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Crouton Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 I love the Mole (because Block Mash), TI Virus, Striker (because Block Mash), Malicious, and Metamorphosis (because I've always wanted to try Goat Control) @3. Now, that's radical! Let's do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Berserker- Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 I like this list. Some things don't come from where you think they come, like Rekindling from Limited or Bottomless from forbidden, or is this based in some list that is not March12? Still, some very neccesary changes, but I have to admit I would feel annoyed with unlimited Krystia, but I guess that is an example of how the meta is all about spamming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Origins Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 BAN ALL THE DRAGONS! [img]http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/126331_o.gif[/img] Sweet list. Tour Guide @ 2 is pretty interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 >TG Striker >Scapegoat >Book of Moon >Grand Mole All@3 NATURIAS, DOOD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpoleMew Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Why ban Kalut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Glad Beasts Tier 1. Gyzarus spamming time. Oh, look at dat Dandywarrior too. Should be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Bans Mask of Darkness Doesn't ban Rabbit ... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas★Zero Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Most of the banned cards seem alright... *looks at topic and see's Stratos from 1 to banned and Destiny Hero - Malicious and D Draw @ 3 as well as alot of other stuff @3* [img]https://iftheworldwaspink.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/wtf-did-i-just-read1.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bringerofcake Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Will we be seeing stuff about the unlimited section? Because Sams can still open double Shi En surprisingly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 TG Rhino x3 TG Striker x3 Samurai Hermit x3 Debris Dragon x2 Dandylion x2 Sangan Tour Guide x2 Magician of Faith Grand Mole x3 Scapegoat x3 Storm Typhoon Book of Moon x3 Forbidden Lance x3 Torrential x3 Mirror Force x3 Time Seal x3 ??????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Origins Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 I wish DN didn't have limitations on its deck building and it had another playstyle besides Traditional or Tournament style so we could test this crap.I wish DN didn't have limitations on its deck building and it had another playstyle besides Traditional or Tournament style so we could test this crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 The problem of removing problem cards is that other cards become problem cards, ad nauseam. But this list is balanced enough so there are less probems. So: - I'm gonna take a shot and say that the better decks in the format are probably Gladiator Beasts, Agent (control variants, possibly w/ T.G.s), some rudimentary Anti-Meta decks (or chaos decks with a similar core), and a sprinkling of Dandywarrior and Destiny Hero engine-based decks. If you're lucky, you'll get a chunk of Six Samurai decks too. Some cool ass decks with the new unbanned cards too. - 1 MST, 1 Night Beam, 1 Heavy Storm. With practically three reliable S&T destruction cards, you can immediately expect an influx of more trap-heavy decks. Not to mention only 2 Royal Decree for siding, if that is the case. - 3 Book of Moon, 3 Grand Mole, 3 Torrential Tribute. Well, bye, combo decks. If we can expect aggro and control decks in the format because of this, control obviously has the upper hand. - 3 Tribe-Infecting Virus. Apart from the fact that it's probably usually going to be bad, it will make a minor impact for Gladiator Beasts, Lightsworns and Anti-Meta. Agents do suffer a little bit, if they don't have the speed for Synchros or Xyzs. [b][u]Tier 1-2[/u][/b] GBs Anti-Meta Agents Six Samurai Dandywarrior [b][u]Tier 2.5 and below[/u][/b] Lightsworns Blackwings A few other random decks Purely predictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 I'm wondering why nothing happened to Exodia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jord200 Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 [quote name='byakksmodeus' timestamp='1339213171' post='5954202'] [b]Forbidden:[/b] Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]No.[/b] Blackwing - Kalut the Moonshadow . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]YES.[/b] Dark Armed Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Elemental HERO Stratos . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Honest . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Inzektor Hornet . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Judgment Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Mask of Darkness . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Morphing Jar . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]No.[/b] Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]YES PLEASE.[/b] Wind-Up Hunter . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]Yes.[/b] Leviair the Sea Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]Heck no.[/b] Cyber Twin Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Naturia Exterio . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Ryu-Senshi . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Why? Card Destruction . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Final Countdown . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Future Fusion . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]YES.[/b] Gateway of the Six . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Monster Reborn . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]No.[/b][/i] One for One . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Pot of Avarice . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Rekindling . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Royal Tribute . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [/i][b]YES.[/b] Secret Barrel . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] [b]Limited:[/b] Dark Magician of Chaos . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden)[/i] Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b][u]NO![/u][/b] Magician of Faith . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden) [/i][b]Do not want.[/b] Master Hyperion . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Constellar Ptolemys Messier 7 . . . . . . . . . . (From Unlimited) Six Samurai United . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Thousand Eyes Restrict . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden)[/i] Hieratic Seal of Convocation . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Mystical Space Typhoon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i][b] Why?[/b] Night Beam . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i][b] Why?[/b] [b]Semi-Limited:[/b] Dandylion . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]NO.[/b] Debris Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Tour Guide From the Underworld . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Rescue Rabbit . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i][b] YES.[/b] Charge of the Light Brigade . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Royal Decree . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Skill Drain . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] [b]Unlimited:[/b] Archlord Kristya . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Blackwing - Gale the Whirlwind . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Destiny Hero - Malicious . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Gladiator Beast Bestiari . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Marshmallon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Neo-Spacian Grand Mole . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Necro Gardna . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Spore . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden)[/i] Summoner Monk . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] T.G. Striker . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] The Agent of Mystery - Earth . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Tragoedia . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Tribe-Infecting Virus . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden)[/i] Tsukuyomi . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden)[/i] Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Book of Moon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Destiny Draw . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Level Limit - Area B . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Magical Stone Excavation . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Metamorphosis . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden)[/i] Primal Seed . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Scapegoat . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Shien's Smoke Signal . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Swords of Revealing Light . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] Bottomless Trap Hole . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] Mirror Force . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Time Seal . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden)[/i] Torrential Tribute . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] [/quote] Everything else, I fine with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 [quote name='Legend Zero' timestamp='1339258626' post='5954393'] I'm wondering why nothing happened to Exodia. [/quote] Now I think about it, I have to agree. In what is a considerably slower metagame, and absolutely no hits to Exodia as well as Magician of Faith to 1 and Magical Stone Excavation to 3 (potentially, but most Exodia decks probably won't bother with them) probably mean a few Exodia decks see play. Which is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted June 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 [quote name='Expelsword - 信仰' timestamp='1339248142' post='5954324'] Bans Mask of Darkness Doesn't ban Rabbit ... ? [/quote] Rescue Rabbit isn't bannable. With Rabbit being semilimited and Leviair going to 0, it's hardly a thread. Also Mask of Darkness + Tsukuyomi + Time Seal/Drop Off/Drastic Drop Off is a thing. [quote name='Bringer☆de Cake' timestamp='1339256911' post='5954374'] Will we be seeing stuff about the unlimited section? Because Sams can still open double Shi En surprisingly well. [/quote] Six Samurai can open double Shi En and still be at a loss of advantage, since there's only one United and zero Gateway. Obviously if testing shows it to still be a problem further action can be carried out. [quote name='.Rai' timestamp='1339258869' post='5954397'] Now I think about it, I have to agree. In what is a considerably slower metagame, and absolutely no hits to Exodia as well as Magician of Faith to 1 and Magical Stone Excavation to 3 (potentially, but most Exodia decks probably won't bother with them) probably mean a few Exodia decks see play. Which is bad. [/quote] I guess it could use testing. I also want to ignore the poster that agreed with Rabbit at 2, but disagreed with Leviair at 0 at the same time. I've also already experienced the power of control heavy decks via playtesting T.G.. I'm reconsidering the MST/Night Beam movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Note that my comments were made by briefly skimming the list, and then going down them one by one, which may result in weaker comments earlier on before I saw other affected cards that make sense of the change. [quote name='byakksmodeus' timestamp='1339213171' post='5954202'] [b]Forbidden:[/b] Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]This is fine[/b][/i] Blackwing - Kalut the Moonshadow . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]I question this a little but shrug it off.[/b] Dark Armed Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]Okay.[/b][/i] Elemental HERO Stratos . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]Doesn't this hurt HEROs in general for no reason?[/b] Honest . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]Okay[/b] Inzektor Hornet . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]Okay[/b] Judgment Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]Okay[/b][/i] Mask of Darkness . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]*just gives a weird look and moves on*[/b] Morphing Jar . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]Okay[/b][/i] Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]Okay[/b][/i] Wind-Up Hunter . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]Good[/b][/i] Leviair the Sea Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]I'll shrug it off.[/b][/i] Cyber Twin Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]O...kay[/b][/i] Naturia Exterio . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]Whatever[/b][/i] Ryu-Senshi . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]This is stupid. How about instead of banning all the cards abusable with Metamorphosis, you instead *gasp* Leave Metamorphosis banned?[/b][/i] Card Destruction . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]Okay.[/b][/i] Final Countdown . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]You could probably just ban One Day of Peace instead[/b][/i] Future Fusion . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]With REDMD banned, this...whatever, needed a ban a long time ago.[/b][/i] Gateway of the Six . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]Okay[/b][/i] Monster Reborn . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]Fine[/b][/i] One for One . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]Why?[/b][/i] Pot of Avarice . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]Okay[/b][/i] Rekindling . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]You're killing a lot of Decks here for no apparent reason. Not that Rekindling is good for the game, but...[/b][/i] Royal Tribute . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [b]Sure.[/b][/i] Secret Barrel . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]Why? If Chain Burn is an issue, kill Chain Strike and/or Just Desserts.[/b][/i] [b]Limited:[/b] Dark Magician of Chaos . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden) [b]Stupid idea.[/b][/i] Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]Why? You already killed Dark Worlds' 2 greatest mass advantage cards. Whatever.[/b][/i] Magician of Faith . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden) [b]Better than DMoC, yet DMoC is also back. This is dumb.[/b][/i] Master Hyperion . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]Why? Agents are dead on accounts of Earth being limited.[/b][/i] Constellar Ptolemys Messier 7 . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]Who runs a lot of these anyway?[/b][/i] Six Samurai United . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]Okay[/b][/i] Thousand Eyes Restrict . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden) [b]No. This is stupid. Why are you giving Metamorphosis back and banning abusable cards with it (Cyber Twin, Exterio, Ryu Sen), yet giving us back the card that ABUSES IT THE MOST? If you give this back, keep Metamorphosis banned.[/b][/i] Hieratic Seal of Convocation . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]Good.[/b][/i] Mystical Space Typhoon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]...why? This doesnt even make sense from a 3-0 standpoint. Multiple MSTs arent a problem.[/b][/i] Night Beam . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]This makes even less sense than MST.[/b][/i] [b]Semi-Limited:[/b] Dandylion . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]WHY?! Dandylion should be put in the other direction, not given more.[/b][/i] Debris Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]And why are you also boosting Debris alongside Dandy? I didnt see Black Rose getting banned.[/b][/i] Tour Guide From the Underworld . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]Okay, good.[/b][/i] Rescue Rabbit . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]Leviair's banning makes sense now.[/b][/i] Charge of the Light Brigade . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]JD's banned, so...fine.[/b][/i] Royal Decree . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]...sure?[/b][/i] Skill Drain . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]...sure?[/b][/i] [b]Unlimited:[/b] Archlord Kristya . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [b]Why?[/b][/i] Blackwing - Gale the Whirlwind . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]Sure.[/b][/i] Destiny Hero - Malicious . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [b]Kind of dumb. Even 3-0 lists say this should be at 2.[/b][/i] Gladiator Beast Bestiari . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]What? I didnt see any limitations on Gyzarus.[/b][/i] Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [b]Okay.[/b][/i] Marshmallon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [b]Um...okay[/b][/i] Neo-Spacian Grand Mole . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]Are we trying to breathe life into stall/troll decks that dont use Countdown?[/b][/i] Necro Gardna . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [b]I see significantly boosted Lightsworn Decks using Celestia and/or Lightrays as their aces now.[/b][/i] Spore . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden) [b]Oh, this is why One for One is banned.[/b][/i] Summoner Monk . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [b]Sure[/b][/i] T.G. Striker . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]I dont mind, but I dont think it's needed[/b][/i] The Agent of Mystery - Earth . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]OH, you gave this back. Explains Hyperion.[/b][/i] Tragoedia . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [b]Sure.[/b][/i] Tribe-Infecting Virus . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden) [b]...WHAT?![/b][/i] Tsukuyomi . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden) [b]You gave us Magican of Faith...and unlimited this. Hell, I've been expecting Heavy Storm to get banned, this list is becoming that stupid.[/b][/i] Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]...Okay, so while Gateway and United have been hit, you're giving us back Six Samurai's most broken monster. The card that, if you bring out 2, will pretty much assure you the game. This being put at 3 seems to be trying to justify Tribe coming back, and I think both choices are stupid. You're killing off relavtively balanced S/T removal like Night Shot and MST and giving us back...this THING, and also bumping up mass monster removal.[/b][/i] Book of Moon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]This at 3 AND Tsukuyomi at 3? I think it's going to abusable with Magician of Faith. In a bad way.[/b][/i] Destiny Draw . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [b]How is this a good idea alongside Malicious? Just because Stratos is gone? You didnt ban Absolute Zero or Miracle Fusion, or EXODIA, so how is boosting a D-Hero draw engine beneficial?[/b][/i] Level Limit - Area B . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [b]Yay for stall? This is fine.[/b][/i] Magical Stone Excavation . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [b]You're REALLY into the Spell retrieval aren't you? Yet you still have Dark Hole and Heavy Storm around, plus a ton of draw spells.[/b][/i] Metamorphosis . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden) [b]This is probably one of the dumbest things on the list, not helped by the fact you moved cards around because of it.[/b][/i] Primal Seed . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]The reason this gets BANNED or left at 1 when BLS does is because Traditional can abuse it. So your plan to remove it from the list completely just for the sake of not having it on the list is kind of blatant.[/b][/i] Scapegoat . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]Metamorphosis, this, and Thousand-Eyes Restrict. I dont have to guess what format you're creating.[/b][/i] Shien's Smoke Signal . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [b]And Shi En at 3?[/b][/i] Swords of Revealing Light . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [b]Okay.[/b][/i] Bottomless Trap Hole . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [b]Sure...[/b][/i] Mirror Force . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [b]What.[/b][/i] Time Seal . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden) [b]Is this to justify Mask being banned? Why the hell would you do that? Why not give us back Trap Dustshoot, too? We have Drop Off, Drastic Drop Off, and this? The makings of a Yata lock. Even if it's not permanent without Mask, it's not fair, either.[/b][/i] Torrential Tribute . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [b]Sure...[/b][/i] [/quote] Your reasoning for unbanning Restrict is beyond stupid. Limit Reverse, Graceful Revival, Call of the Haunted, etc. Instant Fusion abuse, I didnt even consider at first, but now I see just how TERRIBLE of an idea Restrict would be unbanned. Metamorphosis at least isn't a Fusion Summon. Your other reasonings are okay, but you did a lot of damage to a lot of Decks and gave too much power to the wrong kind of Decks (slow/Exodia/TE-Restrict abuse). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Also, banning Rekindling renders Lavals and Flamvells completely unplayable. I mean, even if you ban Hornet, Inzektors can still do things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-so-Radiant Arin Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 [quote name='byakksmodeus' timestamp='1339213171' post='5954202'] [b]Forbidden:[/b] Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]This makes a lot of sense.[/b] Blackwing - Kalut the Moonshadow . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i][b]With the advent of the new Blackwing that increases 1 Blackwing's ATK by 500, I say this can go.[/b] Dark Armed Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Elemental HERO Stratos . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] Honest . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i][b]I don't get this one. Sure, it allows for OTKs, but are there any really any Decks out there right now that can abuse it, or re-use it?[/b] Inzektor Hornet . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]Yes.[/b] Judgment Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]Why? Lightsworns suck.[/b] Mask of Darkness . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]Again, why? Re-using Torrential like 4 times adds a bit more skill.[/b] Morphing Jar . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited)[/i] [b]Okay.[/b] Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]Okay.[/b] Wind-Up Hunter . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i] Leviair the Sea Dragon . . . . . . . . . . (From Unlimited)[b] Perfect.[/b] Cyber Twin Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]Uhh...[/b] Naturia Exterio . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]^^[/b] Ryu-Senshi . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]What? What is this card? I've never heard of it.[/b] Card Destruction . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]Perfectly fine by me.[/b] Final Countdown . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]Perfect.[/b] Future Fusion . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]Don't really care.[/b] Gateway of the Six . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]Fine.[/b] Monster Reborn . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]Needed to go, now that Call of the Haunted is back at 3. Plus, it's broken anyway.[/b] One for One . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]Not a whole lot of Decks can make use of this card (only like Junk Doppel or Level Eater Quasar), so it's fine to leave it where it is.[/b] Pot of Avarice . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]Okay.[/b] Rekindling . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]Bye bye Lavals.[/b] Royal Tribute . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [/i][b]Don't really see the point, but okay.[/b] Secret Barrel . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]Okay.[/b] [b]Limited:[/b] Dark Magician of Chaos . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden) [/i][b]Why?[/b] Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]Okay.[/b] Magician of Faith . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden) [/i][b]With Reborn gone, this can actually be teched into a lot of Decks.[/b] Master Hyperion . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]Poor Agents...[/b] Constellar Ptolemys Messier 7 . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]Okay.[/b] Six Samurai United . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]I don't really care about this one. Most builds I see don't run more than 2 anyway.[/b] Thousand Eyes Restrict . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden) [/i][b]Why?[/b] Hieratic Seal of Convocation . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]Good move. [/b] Mystical Space Typhoon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i] Night Beam . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]A slower format with less backrow destruction? Ehh...[/b] [b]Semi-Limited:[/b] Dandylion . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]It's not as abusable as it once was, but it still is abusable. This needs to stay at Limited.[/b] Debris Dragon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]Okay.[/b] Tour Guide From the Underworld . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]Okay.[/b] Rescue Rabbit . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]If Leviair is gone, then this can really stay at 3.[/b] Charge of the Light Brigade . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]So ban JD, but give Lightsworns a boost. Makes perfect sense.[/b] Royal Decree . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]Most Decks should run no more than 2 anyway.[/b] Skill Drain . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited)[/i] [b]Unlimited:[/b] Archlord Kristya . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [/i][b]No.[/b] Blackwing - Gale the Whirlwind . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]I'm fine with this.[/b] Destiny Hero - Malicious . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [/i][b]I'm on the fence with this one. It can easily make Rank 6s to go into Gaia Charger or whatever the hell it is.[/b] Gladiator Beast Bestiari . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]GBs aren't particularly a strong force so...sure.[/b] Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [/i][b]Okay.[/b] Marshmallon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [/i][b]Okay.[/b] Neo-Spacian Grand Mole . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i] Necro Gardna . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [/i] Spore . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden) [/i][b]................[/b] Summoner Monk . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [/i][b]Okay.[/b] T.G. Striker . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]Okay.[/b] The Agent of Mystery - Earth . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]Okay.[/b] Tragoedia . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited)[/i] [b]Fine.[/b] Tribe-Infecting Virus . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden) [/i][b]Fine.[/b] Tsukuyomi . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden) [/i][b]Okay.[/b] Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]Eww, no.[/b] Book of Moon . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]This would allow for a healthy, but slower format.[/b] Destiny Draw . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [/i][b]Okay.[/b] Level Limit - Area B . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [/i][b]Sure.[/b] Magical Stone Excavation . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [/i][b]Okay (why was it even Limited in the first place?). [/b] Metamorphosis . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden) [/i][b]Why?[/b] Primal Seed . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]Okay.[/b] Scapegoat . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]Okay.[/b] Shien's Smoke Signal . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [/i][b]So...limit the Hieratic Searcher while Six Sams get a boost again? I smell bias.[/b] Swords of Revealing Light . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [/i][b]Sure.[/b] Bottomless Trap Hole . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Unlimited) [/i][b]Okay.[/b] Mirror Force . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Limited) [/i][b]Such a ridiculous card that should stay at 1. It's powerful enough at 1.[/b] Time Seal . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Forbidden) [/i][b]Uhh....[/b] Torrential Tribute . . . . . . . . . . [i](From Semi-Limited) [/i][b]Sure.[/b][/quote] [quote]The aim of this banlist is to move itself towards more of a 3-0 style list without making it a true 3-0 list. This is noted by the forbidden and unlimited sections gaining cards and the semilimited and limit sections losing cards while still retaining a small population. This banlist also takes a personal bias over the unlimiting of Destiny HERO - Malicious and adjusts accordingly.[/quote] Generally, when it comes to making a Banlist, all bias should be tossed aside and only look at the cards that represent a real, true threat to the metagame, or are simply too broken to be left running rampant. [quote[b]][/b] Still not convinced that Judgment Dragon, Dark Armed Dragon, and Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon should be banned? [center][img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120207082932/yugioh/images/thumb/2/2b/EclipseWyvern-SDDC-EN-SR-1E.jpg/300px-EclipseWyvern-SDDC-EN-SR-1E.jpg[/img][/center] This motherf***er is [i]partially[/i] to blame.[/quote] When why not just ban him? [quote]I'm really lazy and I don't want to write more stuff but Tour Guide is semilimited to prevent the issue of going Tour Guide -> Sangan without deck dedication, I like Destiny HERO Malicious because he's a coolass motherf***er, and a lot of stuff was limited because they're not good enough to be on the banlist. I want feedback give it to me also test this format if it's not balanced it should still be fun as hell. [/quote] You suck at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Althemia Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 [quote] Tribe-Infecting Virus . . . . . . . . . . (From Forbidden) [b]...WHAT?![/b][/quote] I don't understand this reaction. Also, I hope you guys realize that Uria is a thing with this banlist being so absolutely hateful towards S/T destruction. :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Wait.... Why is Ryu-Senshi@0? Seems random, TBH Of course, I'm just missing the point to it :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Althemia Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 [quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1339260612' post='5954415'] Wait.... Why is Ryu-Senshi@0? Seems random, TBH Of course, I'm just missing the point to it :/ [/quote] Hieratic Metamorphosis target which sets up the loop and stops your opponent from TTing you halfway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted June 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 TER -> 0 because Instant Fusion fusion summons it and allows further abuse. Rekindling -> 1 Exodia -> 0 Exodia pieces -> 3 Shi En -> 1 MST -> 3 Night Beam -> 3 Royal Decree -> 3 Skill Drain -> 3 For reference, Ptolemys is at 0 due to the Gishki hand destruction deck that exists. Even though MST at 3 and Heavy at 1 appears to be a big frustration in the current format, with the promotion of slow decks it becomes a bit more necessary. I might bring Spore back down to 0 and One for One back to 3 in case the resultant Quickdraw Plant decks work out too well. 2 Debris, 2 Dandy, 1 Lonefire without either Bulb or Spore doesn't seem horribly overpowered. I also fail to understand why people think Bestiari going to 3 is a big deal when 1) Gladiator Beasts are awful (questionable in the resultant format, but due to other changes) and 2) Bestiari had like 9 possible search cards to put its existence on the board in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Berserker- Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Is Gorz still needed in this format? A powerful card that is used with the excuse of preventing OTKs, but if you say this format is slower... Not that I want it banned or something, it is one of my favorite cards, but have you considered it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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