Beast Lord Volcan

[Blake]

1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner monsters
When this card is Synchro Summoned: Target 1 face-up card on each side of the field; return those targets to the hand, but you cannot activate the effects of those cards or cards with the same name for the rest of this turn. You can only use the effect of "Beast God Vulcan" once per turn.

[Not-so-Radiant Arin]

Honestly, it should have had 2300 ATK and be WATER.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Honestly, it should have had 2300 ATK and be WATER.

Yes to the first thing, no to the second.

[Sora1499]

Yet another reason as to why Tenki should be at 0-1. I wish he had more ATK though.

[Bringerofcake]

 

OT: Is Spirit the only way to summon this thing? I forget what other Beast-Warrior-type Tuners we have.

[Sora1499]

[quote name="Bringerofcake" post="6142172" timestamp="1360642041"]   OT: Is Spirit the only way to summon this thing? I forget what other Beast-Warrior-type Tuners we have.[/quote] It's generic.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Yet another reason as to why Tenki should be at 0-1. I wish he had more ATK though.

I hope if you believe that Tenki should be at 0 then so should Reinforcement of the Army...

[Blake]

I hope if you believe that Tenki should be at 0 then so should Reinforcement of the Army...

Tenki's worse than RotA because of the fact that it is reusable, is searchable, etc.etc.

[Sora1499]

[quote name="Zeppeli Gyro Supreme" post="6142174" timestamp="1360642163"]I hope if you believe that Tenki should be at 0 then so should Reinforcement of the Army...[/quote] I personally think that Tenki would be ok at 1, but there are plenty of solid arguments that it should be at 0. Those being that it's godly searchable, it can be searched out by the things it searches, and it's reusable.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Reinforcement has a LOT of more targets that are good than Tenki, and Tenki is not "re-usable" in any conventional sense seeing as this is pretty much the only card that will ever be used to recycle it, and it prevents it from being activated that turn (though in an ideal situation it should have already been used that turn). Tenki does have its benefits over Reinforcement, but it also has the MST weakness, and like I said, a major drop in targets compared to Reinforcement. I agree it shouldn't be at 3 personally, but at the same time I say Reinforcement of the Army should be banned before this.

 

Also, if Tenki were banned an entire archetype would more than likely die.

[Blake]

Reinforcement has a LOT of more targets that are good than Tenki, and Tenki is not "re-usable" in any conventional sense seeing as this is pretty much the only card that will ever be used to recycle it, and it prevents it from being activated that turn (though in an ideal situation it should have already been used that turn). Tenki does have its benefits over Reinforcement, but it also has the MST weakness, and like I said, a major drop in targets compared to Reinforcement. I agree it shouldn't be at 3 personally, but at the same time I say Reinforcement of the Army should be banned before this.

Constellar Pleiades

Cardinal Commander

Beast Lord Volcan is a generic Synchro that can be used almost, if not anywhere, this can, so saying "Only this card" doesn't have much weight.

 

You were saying?

 

This has some very potent targets as well, searches cards that search it out, and the fact that it can die to MST doesn't mean any more than the fact that any other S/T that isn't a valid defense of the card.

 

I'm not sold myself if 0 or 1 would be better, but given how abusable/searchable a single copy of the card is, more than 0 seems dumb.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

tenki at 1 or 0 is ideal. if konami werent thinking straight and hit some of the fire fists too id be more okay with it at 1.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Constellar Pleiades - I can think of a lot better cards you would bounce with that before this, unless you really, really want to make Messier 7 or your opponent is just losing bad.

Cardinal Commander - It returns it to the deck, and it can then be searched out, but that's situational recovery.

Beast Lord Volcan is a generic Synchro that can be used almost, if not anywhere, this can, so saying "Only this card" doesn't have much weight.

 

You were saying? This statement is really redundant and also just makes what you said sound very rude rather than informational, but okay.

 

This has some very potent targets as well, searches cards that search it out, and the fact that it can die to MST doesn't mean any more than the fact that any other S/T that isn't a valid defense of the card.

I'm not speaking of a 3 or 0 situation here. Saying that it can search cards that search it has no weight on whether or not it should be banned if it's only at 1. Also, you can't blindly make the argument here of "just because it can be X'd doesn't mean anything" because this actually bears a large amount on the consistency of a normal spell over a continuous spell, and could actually make a difference compared to the argument of "you can use bottomless trap hole on it" which applies for most monsters.

[Blake]

Did you seriously just say that bouncing Tenki with Pleiades is bad? And did you say searching a searchable spell is situational?
 

I'm not speaking of a 3 or 0 situation here. Saying that it can search cards that search it has no weight on whether or not it should be banned if it's only at 1.

Uh, yes, it should have weight. Interaction with other cards is an important part of making a banlist. To say the other cards don't matter is to say that Lonefire Blossom and Dandylion don't interact.

Also, you can't blindly make the argument here of "just because it can be X'd doesn't mean anything" because this actually bears a large amount on the consistency of a normal spell over a continuous spell, and could actually make a difference compared to the argument of "you can use bottomless trap hole on it" which applies for most monsters.

Yes, I can.

It's a searchable spell that goes off without a hitch, and at worst, baits their MST. It doesn't mean anything towards balance that you can MST it because of the fact that it IS recyclable. The fact that it's reusable outweighs the fact that it can be stopped by MST by miles, considering basically any viable or semi-viable deck that runs Tenki has some way to recycle it.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

I'm not speaking of a 3 or 0 situation here. Saying that it can search cards that search it has no weight on whether or not it should be banned if it's only at 1. Also, you can't blindly make the argument here of "just because it can be X'd doesn't mean anything" because this actually bears a large amount on the consistency of a normal spell over a continuous spell, and could actually make a difference compared to the argument of "you can use bottomless trap hole on it" which applies for most monsters.

 

except "you can mst it" falls under the "its counterable!!!!! just counter it!!!!" argument. regardless of whether its counterable it is crazy.

 

some facts

1) tenki and even a single fire fist like bear or something can dramatically thin the deck over the course of a few turns.

2) rota may have more TOTAL targets, but considering the legions of crappack filler warriors that exist and the sudden large influx of good beast-warriors, the number of targets that make an impact on the game are much closer than you think

3) being searched by its search targets is a problem. it in practice reduces the number of cards in your deck considerably, because drawing into one of them gives you an incredibly high chance of grabbing the other. its ridiculous and it honestly needs to go. and im saying this as someone who runs a deck that heavily benefits from it.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

One way or another, I steered the conversation down the wrong path. It's supposed to be about Volcan, not Tenki.

[Agro]

This is a Volcan thread. jsuk

 

OT: It's a great card. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't get it.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

Hitting Fire Fists? Hit Tenki. Simple as that. D: And I don't like it.

 

OT - Tenki (as much as I <3 the card) is the way to hit problem cards. It's basically "Normal Summon 1 Beast-Warrior that solves your problems this turn from your Deck and then proceed to more +s". Tenki at it's BEST should be at 1, especially given how Cardinal Commander/Pleiades/Transmigration Prophecy can recycle it as well.

 

MST/Dust Tornado/Dark Bribe/etc "can" be chained to it to negate the activation, but that doesn't mean Tenki is not a problem card. It probably won't get hit, but it should after their done with all their Fire Fist promotions.

 

Now for Volcan, he isn't good at the moment. Once Tenki gets hit, then I can definitely see him being played more as a recycle machine as well paired up with Chicken. Right now, they don't need it given all 3 copies of Tenki.

[Lonk]

I personally see no problem with a card that helps to make a deck fun to play with while being competitive remaining for 2 more formats.  Just saying.

 

OT:  Of course, this is indirect Fire Fist support.  It is compulsory in Monster Form that is good-good.  What more needs to be said?

[Legend Zero]

I want more "Volcan" cards to be made to reference Digimon Adventure's Ultimate/Perfect forms.

[Sleepy]

I want more "Volcan" cards to be made to reference Digimon Adventure's Ultimate/Perfect forms.

For Digimon references, they should make Leomon's reference about to die in some way... you know, because Leomon and variations always die in all generatio-*shot*