U.S. Government is Shutdown

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Canada's got a fucked up government too. "Conservatives" except when it comes to a fuckton of jails as well as jets to bomb Mali into the stone age with.

 

[Phantom Roxas]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm prepared for this to turn out like the plot of Devil Survivor. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to summon demons with my 3DS yet.

[Lunar Origins]

"Perhaps this party division is necessary to induce each to watch and delate to the people the proceedings of the other. But if on a temporary superiority of the one party the other is to resort to a scission of the Union, no federal government can ever exist." --Thomas Jefferson to John Taylor, 1798. ME 10:45

 

Among other things, I feel like we were warned.

[Mehmani]

Tenta is apparently ignoring all the evidence that points to the truth - the Republicans lost a vote and are actively interrupting the fair process of democracy. This isn't a plague on both their houses - it's Romeo killing Tybalt and screwing Juliet. Healthcare reform has been voted in, but the Republicans are perfectly happy to go against the entire democratic fabric of the US political system to subvert something they don't like (or more precisely, what their paymasters don't like).

[Tentacruel]

Oh no, that's pretty much exactly what's happening.  Fuck the GOP.  But since "Obamacare," is still a fairly divisive bill (pretty sure around half of America is for it and half is against), it should at least be left open for discussion.

 

Personally I don't like the, "You can purchase health insurance from whoever, but you have to purchase it."  As unfair as it might seem, I'd be all for completely un-privatizing healthcare, making it all federal, and working into the budget (and taxes).

 

And while they're at it, they can flatten the tax structure at the higher end.  (As it stands, the rich elite pay less in taxes than the working middle class or working upper-middle class.)  Maybe they could buy a few less nuclear missiles each year to help pay for it or something. 

[Miror B]

This is why Washington didn't want a 2 party system.

[EPTinYugi]

Somehow it even affects someone's love life:
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/429521/october-03-2013/the-2013-government-shutdown-wedding-of-the-century-pt--1

 

Some 

Others here!

 

At least there's 1 good side:

No racist rally for a certain group.

[vla1ne]

You know what, at this point I would gladly give the KKK 100 free racist rallies if the government could start up again. People aren't able to work and others are having their lives/vacations screwed up all because idiots at the top don't want to act like adults.

[Maeriberii Haan]

Is the recent self-immolation case in DC is connected with this? Or am I just mixing things up?

[Legend Zero]

Little update.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/06/ted-cruz-republicans-shutdown_n_4053493.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/06/john-boehner-continuing-resolution_n_4053175.html?ref=topbar

[I Hate Snatch Steal]

Keep in mind that Harry Reid's contact phone line is down "because of the shutdown", but John Bohener's contact phone is still running.

 

Who's really trying to serve us in our time of need? You decide.

 

edit:

 

For those who want to read more:

 

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/brad-w-jackson/Make-no-mistake-this-is-harry-reids-shutdown

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/326819-smash-mouth-reid

[Tentacruel]

No one is trying to serve us in our time of need.  Each party is trying to further its respective agenda because that's what they were elected to do. 

[Maeriberii Haan]

Each party are idiots who just want to expand their power in the country and the world. They have no time to think about insignificant things like civilians.

[Tentacruel]

Each party are idiots who just want to expand their power in the country and the world. They have no time to think about insignificant things like civilians.

 

But my party is the best! 

[vla1ne]

You know, this entire argument is moot, just restart the government and keep it moving. The entire reason for the shutdown was whining over a bill that already passed. people want to go back to work and others cant support their kids. Nobody in congress should be proud of this lockdown, and all of the people who caused it should be ashamed of themselves.

[I Hate Snatch Steal]

You know, this entire argument is moot, just restart the government and keep it moving. The entire reason for the shutdown was whining over a bill that already passed. people want to go back to work and others cant support their kids. Nobody in congress should be proud of this lockdown, and all of the people who caused it should be ashamed of themselves.

January 1, 1862

 

"Slavery laws have already passed, let not touch them"

 

1 year later

 

May 21, 1918:

 

"Women shouldn't be able to vote,  why do they even keep trying to change the law?"

 

1 year later

 

A good government evolves and rethinks. A bad government surpresses people who do. The founding fathers knew this.

 

The examples might seem "over the top", but anything less would convince no one.

[Nathanael D. Striker]

January 1, 1862

"Slavery laws have already passed, let not touch them"

1 year later

May 21, 1918:

"Women shouldn't be able to vote, why do they even keep trying to change the law?"

1 year later

A good government evolves and rethinks. A bad government surpresses people who do. The founding fathers knew this.

The examples might seem "over the top", but anything less would convince no one.

Civil Rights > Healthcare

Anyway, you can't compare the two. And you sound like a Tea Party Republican, and I dislike them the most cause they are fucking up the rest of the Republican Party. And no, I'm a registered Independent.

[Tentacruel]

Civil Rights > Healthcare

Anyway, you can't compare the two. And you sound like a Tea Party Republican, and I dislike them the most cause they are fucking up the rest of the Republican Party. And no, I'm a registered Independent.

I'm not really sure what he's on about, but he is right in that we should always be open to changing laws, to progress.

 

Also, I'm still not even sure what the fuck the Tea Party is.  Wikipedia says they're advocates of reducing the national debt and budget deficit, which is good, but by reducing spending and taxes.  That's not how that works.

 

I mean, I've hear a lot of people just describe them using only negative terms and insults or whatever, which is not how you describe political stances.  It's like how conservatives talk about Communists.  "They want to outlaw religion and take our guns away!"  (I am aware that was a hyperbolic generalization but you know what I mean.)

[I Hate Snatch Steal]

My first point was to illustrate who cares about the American people more by simple factual example, rather then a long argument.

 

My second point was to point out that just because obamacare passed doesn't mean that it should stay.

 

My third (which I am saying now) is that I believe in limited government. (NOT anarchy obviously), free markets, FREE PRESS, and I do not believe in a 1 party system (regardess of which party is in power) since it makes those in power arrogant and irresponisble, and I despise entitlement programs. Prosperity should come to those who are willing to work for it, not those who vote a certain way and are rewarded with welfare checks. There is a point between the far left and the far right where America can prosper. However we are very far from it thanks to Barack Obama.

[vla1ne]

My first point was to illustrate who cares about the American people more by simple factual example, rather then a long argument.

 

My second point was to point out that just because obamacare passed doesn't mean that it should stay.

 

My third (which I am saying now) is that I believe in limited government. (NOT anarchy obviously), free markets, FREE PRESS, and I do not believe in a 1 party system (regardess of which party is in power) since it makes those in power arrogant and irresponisble, and I despise entitlement programs. Prosperity should come to those who are willing to work for it, not those who vote a certain way and are rewarded with welfare checks. There is a point between the far left and the far right where America can prosper. However we are very far from it thanks to Barack Obama.

  On the first 2 points, neither example you posted had to shut down the government and risk a default. And the two laws you posted were protested against because they were made to be fundamentally unfair to an entire section of our population. Last I checked, this healthcare bill was made to help people, not hurt them. Even with it's flaws it wouldn't cause us to default on our credit, or lose our jobs (unless businesses act ignorant, but I should hope they know better than to layoff their staff to save money that can keep their staff healthy) 

 

  I won't argue the bill anymore. It's already a law and it's already passed the supreme court. If it's gonna be changed, then republicans, democrats, or anybody else in congress can do it the way it's always been done: Point out the flaws and fix them by way of hard facts and good ideas.

 

  The president is not the sole decider of everything in this country, I've got my issues with him, but I also know that not all of those issues are completely his fault. You know what a filibuster is right? they've been all over any channel that isn't fox news. look up whose used them the most to keep bills from passing ever since he got into office. and look up the signatures in the government shutdown while you're at it. I'm not a democrat, but even I can tell that even if republicans are trying to help, they're going about it all wrong.

 

  Stable and proper health care should not be an debatable issue. it saves lives, end of story, you can argue the details if you want, but it is agreed on by both sides that we are long overdue for a healthcare reset. Unless the people opposing it have a better plan other than "shut down everything they can", they need to keep quiet and look for ways to improve the bill instead of ways to kill it.

 

 

Summary of the above:

This shutdown is hurting more people than it will ever help, it's an attempt by a bunch of congressmen to circumvent legal processes to get what they want because no argument they threw at it had enough substance to stand up, and any of them who aren't willing to end this problem immediately deserve to be ridiculed for screwing up the way government is supposed to work.

[I Hate Snatch Steal]

  On the first 2 points, neither example you posted had to shut down the government and risk a default. And the two laws you posted were protested against because they were made to be fundamentally unfair to an entire section of our population. Last I checked, this healthcare bill was made to help people, not hurt them. Even with it's flaws it wouldn't cause us to default on our credit, or lose our jobs (unless businesses act ignorant, but I should hope they know better than to layoff their staff to save money that can keep their staff healthy) 

Yeah it is unfair to an entire section of our population. Those who aren't on the "I'm an Obama ally and I get an exemption" list that is. If you truly think that Obamacare was made tohelp people, then maybe this article will change your mind. Well we're at it,

http://obamacarewr.fwsites.org/top-10-ways-obamacare-sticks-it-to-young-adults/

http://obamacarewr.fwsites.org/obamacare-vs-sharknado/

This last link is a list of companies exempt from obamacare.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2900475/posts

Congress is exempt too, what kind of hipocrisy is that?

  I won't argue the bill anymore. It's already a law and it's already passed the supreme court.

If it's gonna be changed, then republicans, democrats, or anybody else in congress can do it the way it's always been done: Point out the flaws and fix them by way of hard facts and good ideas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plessy_v._Ferguson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Board_of_Education

Segregation "already passed the suprime court" too. I just hope the ruling is overturned much faster this time.

 

  The president is not the sole decider of everything in this country, I've got my issues with him, but I also know that not all of those issues are completely his fault. You know what a filibuster is right? they've been all over any channel that isn't fox news. look up whose used them the most to keep bills from passing ever since he got into office. and look up the

signatures in the government shutdown while you're at it. I'm not a democrat, but even I can tell that even if republicans are trying to help, they're going about it all wrong.

"Look up whose's reposnsible for the shutdown? As you wish. Here's what I found. http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/326819-smash-mouth-reid

  Stable and proper health care should not be an debatable issue. it saves lives, end of story, you can argue the details if you want, but it is agreed on by both sides that we are long overdue for a healthcare reset. Unless the people opposing it have a better plan other than "shut down everything they can", they need to keep quiet and look for ways to improve the bill instead of ways to kill it.

Many plans for better systems then Obamacare exist. The issue is passing them through a Democrat controlled senate and presidential veto. Liberals love dependecy on the goverment and don't want to lose power.

Summary of the above:

This shutdown is hurting more people than it will ever help, it's an attempt by a bunch of congressmen to circumvent legal processes to get what they want because no argument they threw at it had enough substance to stand up, and any of them who aren't willing to end this problem immediately deserve to be ridiculed for screwing up the way government is supposed to work

Why don't you ask the founding fathers how goverment is supposed to work?

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

 

Re: What is the [modern] teaparty?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_Patriots

http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

[vla1ne]

Yeah it is unfair to an entire section of our population. Those who aren't on the "I'm an Obama ally and I get an exemption" list that is. If you truly think that Obamacare was made tohelp people, then maybe this article will change your mind. Well we're at it,

http://obamacarewr.fwsites.org/top-10-ways-obamacare-sticks-it-to-young-adults/

http://obamacarewr.fwsites.org/obamacare-vs-sharknado/

This last link is a list of companies exempt from obamacare.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2900475/posts

Congress is exempt too, what kind of hipocrisy is that?

This covers all the claims in your articles that can't be immediately written off as jokes. http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/10/01/15-myths-the-media-should-ignore-during-obamaca/196181

and if that isn't enough, http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/25/cruz-fact-check/2873439/

 

The facts are really easy to spot, both sides skip facts when it's convenient, the difference is when it comes to the affordable care act (Obamacare for short) republicans seem to skip far more serious things like basic mythbusting in favor of fear play

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plessy_v._Ferguson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Board_of_Education

Segregation "already passed the suprime court" too. I just hope the ruling is overturned much faster this time.

Once more: The two laws you posted were protested against because they were made to be fundamentally unfair to an entire section of our population. Last I checked, this healthcare bill was made to help people, not hurt them

 

"Look up whose's reposnsible for the shutdown? As you wish. Here's what I found. http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/326819-smash-mouth-reid

[spoiler='Literally the entire ending of your link...']
White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters later in the day that the president is not asking for the debt ceiling to be raised for a specific period of time, only that it be raised "without drama or delay." They are supportive of the Senate Democrats' efforts, he added.

As the shutdown entered its second week, the divide within the Republican Party over strategy continued to grow.

In particular, Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., has increasingly voiced frustration with his own party for forcing a government shutdown in the hopes of defunding the Affordable Care Act.

"The Republicans should not have started this. Closing the government down was the wrong thing to do," King told Patch in Nahsua, N.H. today at a regular political breakfast. "Having said that, it is what it is, and the president has absolute obligation...to end this," he added.

On Fox News Sunday this weekend, King said the Republican strategy promoted by Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, "was a strategy doomed to failure."

"It's almost a nullification, saying we're going to shut down the government to defund a law we don't like," he said. "If we want to defund something, we should repeal it, and do it the same way the president got it signed: elect Republicans to both houses of Congress, repeal it, and have a Republican president sign it."

Republican Sen. Mike Lee of Utah, one of Cruz's closest allies, went on Fox Monday morning to say he "forcefully" disagrees with King. "He's just plain wrong. This is an important strategy. This is something we have to do to protect the American people. I keep asking the question, how many more people are going to have to lose their jobs, how many more people are going to have to have their hours cut or their wages slashed or lose access to their health insurance before congress acts to protect the American people from the harmful effects of Obamacare," Lee said. He insisted the American people are united behind the Republicans.

But a CBS News poll released last week shows more Americans disapprove of how Republicans are handling budget negotiations (72 percent) than President Obama and Congressional Democrats (61 percent).
© 2013 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. [/spoiler] did you read the entire article? or only the parts relevant to your argument, because reading the entire thing gets you to the exact lines I spoilered, and the rest isn't even related to your argument. [spoiler='the first half of it up to the part i spoilered.']President Obama again urged House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, to put a short-term spending bill with no strings attached on the House floor Monday because he believes it will pass and end the government shutdown.

"There are enough Republican and Democratic votes in the House of Representatives right now to end the shutdown immediately," he said. If there aren't, then Boehner and the Republican House leadership "should prove it," he said.

In an interview on ABC's "This Week" Sunday, House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, said there were not enough votes in the House to either restore government funding or raise the debt-ceiling in a so-called "clean" continuing resolution that included no concessions by Democrats.

But when Boehner came to the House floor after Mr. Obama spoke, he ignored the president's comments and again called for negotiations. "Mr. President, it's time to have that conversation before our economy is put further at risk," he said.

Mr. Obama also called on Congress to extend the nation's borrowing authority beyond the current $16.7 trillion limit. Republicans have asked for negotiations to both restore funding to the government and raise the debt ceiling. Mr. Obama reiterated a promise to negotiate over a range of topics, including healthcare and energy policy, but only after the government is reopened and the debt ceiling increased.

"We're not going to negotiate under the threat of further harm to our economy," he said.
Boehner: Not enough votes for "clean" spending bill to end shutdown
Debt ceiling: Understanding what's at stake

The president's remarks came during a visit to the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), where about 86 percent of the workforce was furloughed, according to FEMA. The agency recalled about 200 of its furloughed workers last week to help prepare for the arrival of Tropical Storm Karen, but at least 100 will be sent home again, Mr. Obama said.

Aides say Senate Democrats might begin the process of bringing a clean debt limit increase to the Senate floor this week, but procedural hurdles could mean that the first vote on such a measure might not happen until Friday at the earliest.

Gene Sperling, a senior Obama economic adviser, indicated Monday morning that the White House might be open to a short-term extension on increasing the debt ceiling once Treasury Secretary Jack Lew exhausts all other options.

"There's no question that the longer the debt limit is extended, the greater economic certainty there will be in our economy which would be better for jobs, growth and investment," Sperling said at an event sponsored by Politico. "That said, it is the responsibility of Congress to decide how long and how often they want to vote on doing that."

White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters later in the day that the president is not asking for the debt ceiling to be raised for a specific period of time, only that it be raised "without drama or delay." They are supportive of the Senate Democrats' efforts, he added.
[/spoiler] where were you going with this? because to me it makes perfect sense, the president essentially said "fix the government shutdown, and then I promise we'll negotiate other issues"

 

Many plans for better systems then Obamacare exist. The issue is passing them through a Democrat controlled senate and presidential veto. Liberals love dependecy on the goverment and don't want to lose power.

Then why is it that instead of asking to delay it, they aren't trying to merge their better bills with it? the smarter idea in my eyes is to draft a change that has better form and more efficient execution than the original, yet I've only seen one attempt at it, and it was actually very recent, http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/18/house-conservatives-submit-bill-to-repeal-replace-obamacare/ If they spent more time trying to help make the bill work better, instead of trying to remove part of/all of it, they might actually make more progress. 

 

and as for liberals, I don't care what they love or hate, fact is, we were due for an overhaul, and we got one, we can iron out the kinks, but the ground rules are set.

 

Why don't you ask the founding fathers how goverment is supposed to work?

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

[spoiler='Now you're just trolling. ']the declaration of independence is exactly that, a declaration of independence from a tyrannical government, last I checked, nobody was getting beheaded in this country for talking bad about the government (Our prison laws/systems need an overhaul as well, but that's another debate, for another time). And there was never meant to be a two party system. ever. Washington wanted a "best man wins" system, not "best funded man wins" system. fact is, our two party system doesn't even follow the flow of out government, if you want to know how it should be, it's either a 3+ party system, or nothing. because a 2 party system is unable to ever meet in the middle.[/spoiler]

[Lunar Origins]

Just end parties and elect officials based on their personal views, please...

[I Hate Snatch Steal]

This covers all the claims in your articles that can't be immediately written off as jokes. http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/10/01/15-myths-the-media-should-ignore-during-obamaca/196181

and if that isn't enough, http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/25/cruz-fact-check/2873439/

 

The facts are really easy to spot, both sides skip facts when it's convenient, the difference is when it comes to the affordable care act (Obamacare for short) republicans seem to skip far more serious things like basic mythbusting in favor of fear play

 

Once more: The two laws you posted were protested against because they were made to be fundamentally unfair to an entire section of our population. Last I checked, this healthcare bill was made to help people, not hurt them

 

[spoiler='Literally the entire ending of your link...']
White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters later in the day that the president is not asking for the debt ceiling to be raised for a specific period of time, only that it be raised "without drama or delay." They are supportive of the Senate Democrats' efforts, he added.

As the shutdown entered its second week, the divide within the Republican Party over strategy continued to grow.

In particular, Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., has increasingly voiced frustration with his own party for forcing a government shutdown in the hopes of defunding the Affordable Care Act.

"The Republicans should not have started this. Closing the government down was the wrong thing to do," King told Patch in Nahsua, N.H. today at a regular political breakfast. "Having said that, it is what it is, and the president has absolute obligation...to end this," he added.

On Fox News Sunday this weekend, King said the Republican strategy promoted by Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, "was a strategy doomed to failure."

"It's almost a nullification, saying we're going to shut down the government to defund a law we don't like," he said. "If we want to defund something, we should repeal it, and do it the same way the president got it signed: elect Republicans to both houses of Congress, repeal it, and have a Republican president sign it."

Republican Sen. Mike Lee of Utah, one of Cruz's closest allies, went on Fox Monday morning to say he "forcefully" disagrees with King. "He's just plain wrong. This is an important strategy. This is something we have to do to protect the American people. I keep asking the question, how many more people are going to have to lose their jobs, how many more people are going to have to have their hours cut or their wages slashed or lose access to their health insurance before congress acts to protect the American people from the harmful effects of Obamacare," Lee said. He insisted the American people are united behind the Republicans.

But a CBS News poll released last week shows more Americans disapprove of how Republicans are handling budget negotiations (72 percent) than President Obama and Congressional Democrats (61 percent).
© 2013 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. [/spoiler] did you read the entire article? or only the parts relevant to your argument, because reading the entire thing gets you to the exact lines I spoilered, and the rest isn't even related to your argument. [spoiler='the first half of it up to the part i spoilered.']President Obama again urged House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, to put a short-term spending bill with no strings attached on the House floor Monday because he believes it will pass and end the government shutdown.

"There are enough Republican and Democratic votes in the House of Representatives right now to end the shutdown immediately," he said. If there aren't, then Boehner and the Republican House leadership "should prove it," he said.

In an interview on ABC's "This Week" Sunday, House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, said there were not enough votes in the House to either restore government funding or raise the debt-ceiling in a so-called "clean" continuing resolution that included no concessions by Democrats.

But when Boehner came to the House floor after Mr. Obama spoke, he ignored the president's comments and again called for negotiations. "Mr. President, it's time to have that conversation before our economy is put further at risk," he said.

Mr. Obama also called on Congress to extend the nation's borrowing authority beyond the current $16.7 trillion limit. Republicans have asked for negotiations to both restore funding to the government and raise the debt ceiling. Mr. Obama reiterated a promise to negotiate over a range of topics, including healthcare and energy policy, but only after the government is reopened and the debt ceiling increased.

"We're not going to negotiate under the threat of further harm to our economy," he said.
Boehner: Not enough votes for "clean" spending bill to end shutdown
Debt ceiling: Understanding what's at stake

The president's remarks came during a visit to the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), where about 86 percent of the workforce was furloughed, according to FEMA. The agency recalled about 200 of its furloughed workers last week to help prepare for the arrival of Tropical Storm Karen, but at least 100 will be sent home again, Mr. Obama said.

Aides say Senate Democrats might begin the process of bringing a clean debt limit increase to the Senate floor this week, but procedural hurdles could mean that the first vote on such a measure might not happen until Friday at the earliest.

Gene Sperling, a senior Obama economic adviser, indicated Monday morning that the White House might be open to a short-term extension on increasing the debt ceiling once Treasury Secretary Jack Lew exhausts all other options.

"There's no question that the longer the debt limit is extended, the greater economic certainty there will be in our economy which would be better for jobs, growth and investment," Sperling said at an event sponsored by Politico. "That said, it is the responsibility of Congress to decide how long and how often they want to vote on doing that."

White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters later in the day that the president is not asking for the debt ceiling to be raised for a specific period of time, only that it be raised "without drama or delay." They are supportive of the Senate Democrats' efforts, he added.
[/spoiler] where were you going with this? because to me it makes perfect sense, the president essentially said "fix the government shutdown, and then I promise we'll negotiate other issues"

 

Then why is it that instead of asking to delay it, they aren't trying to merge their better bills with it? the smarter idea in my eyes is to draft a change that has better form and more efficient execution than the original, yet I've only seen one attempt at it, and it was actually very recent, http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/18/house-conservatives-submit-bill-to-repeal-replace-obamacare/ If they spent more time trying to help make the bill work better, instead of trying to remove part of/all of it, they might actually make more progress. 

 

and as for liberals, I don't care what they love or hate, fact is, we were due for an overhaul, and we got one, we can iron out the kinks, but the ground rules are set.

 

[spoiler='Now you're just trolling. ']the declaration of independence is exactly that, a declaration of independence from a tyrannical government, last I checked, nobody was getting beheaded in this country for talking bad about the government (Our prison laws/systems need an overhaul as well, but that's another debate, for another time). And there was never meant to be a two party system. ever. Washington wanted a "best man wins" system, not "best funded man wins" system. fact is, our two party system doesn't even follow the flow of out government, if you want to know how it should be, it's either a 3+ party system, or nothing. because a 2 party system is unable to ever meet in the middle.[/spoiler]

Why is the economy still bad (if you disagree, try to find a job and then get back to me) after 5 years of Obama, when others in the past have fixed it in less then a presidential term?

 

I may never convice you of the truth, but history will know who is right. Now if you'll excuse me I have some cards to make.

[Just Crouton]

Well, at least they get a paid vacation out of this. Our politicians deserve a break from all these months of...doing...something?

 

Well, all that matters is that we Americans don't matter, the government exists so a chosen few can fill theirs, and big business' pockets, and we need to shut up and vote for them come election time.

 

I don't know why people think the government exists for their benefit. Some people are just selfish, I guess.