Effect Names & Keyword Mechanics

[Sleepy]

What's your opinion on them?

How would it turn out (according to you) if Yugioh implemented them?

 

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, follow until the dash line:

 

Keywords are something commonly used in Magic the Gathering TCG (MTG). Their purpose it to abreviate what otherwise would end up being a wall of text. There are around 30 or so different ones with their respective definitions stated along with the rules of the game.

An example would be "Flying", which essentially means that your monster can attack directly.

 

Effect Names are something I've seen in Kaijudo TCG and Pokemon TCG. Pokemon has the distinct mechanic that those are actually different attacks with effects attached to them, but we won't focus on that detail. Basically, all effect have a name.

Kaijudo's way of doing it is more sloppy though, because they basically name their effect whatever they want, even if the same effect already exists in another card with a different name.

 

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I personally see it as an overall good idea. If the keywords are official, they'd have to be in the rulebook. That means that the problems of memory some players claim to have towards this would not be as excusable anymore if you just carried the poket rulebook with you.

 

That' also would allow you to implement different mechanics more easily. Like for example, I mentioned "Flying".

Unlike "This monster can attack your opponent directly", which is the Yugioh way of saying it, Flying has the extra variation that if your opponent has another card with Flying, they CAN block you. It makes sence, and you don't have to add anything else except the word "Flying". However in Yugioh, the most direct translation would be found in the Toon monsters. All Toon Monsters have the lore "If your opponent does not control a Toon monster, this card can attack your opponent directly". It means that a Toon can block a Toon, just like Flying can block Flying in MTG.

 

As you can see, it's possible to make an equivalent, right? That'd mean it's not needed, right? Well, although it's not the most urgent need of the game, it'd still be an improvement. Just look at how long the Toon lore is, and being toon has other clauses like "If Toon World is destroyed, destroy this card" and "This card cannot attack during the turn it is Summoned". That's a good 3 to 4 lines of text in the effect, and let's be honest here, when you are reading a Spirit, a Gemeni, or a Toon, odds are that you just skip those parts of the text anyways.

 

It goes beyond sub-Types. Many archetypes also have shared effects that one just scrolls through anyways. You start reading a Madolche monster and you'll just slap yourself for not skipping the first 2 lines. You'll fast scroll through the end of a Lightsworn's effect because you just care about the single number written in there (2, 3, or 4).

 

In addition, it'd allow Konami to reinvent their mechanics as their game grows.

Unions pretty much would only care about stating what monster(s) it's equipped to, otherwise just the word "Union" would be needed in the text. It'd save space that is currently filled with:
Once per turn, you can equip this face-up card to "X" as an Equip Spell Card OR unequip it and Special Summon it in face-up Attack Position. If the equipped monster would be destroyed, you can destroy this card instead. A monster can only be equipped with 1 Union Monster at a time. The equipped monster gains "X-------" effect.

 

Moving all that to the rulebook and just leaving the keyword would allow it to also be easily updated. What if your mechanic now is obsolete to the game? Wouldn't you want to evolve those old pieces to the age?
Older Unions only protect from destruction by battle, while new ones protect from destruction in general.

The older Unions are screwed as it is.

In the future, I wouldn't be surprised if you could unequip them in Defense Position, or allow for more than 1 Union on a monster at a time. Heck they could have even added something along the lines of "The Level of equipped Unions is added now to the equipped monster, because we want to adjust this game for the Xyz era". That's just an example.

 

There's also the advantage of making effects directed towards a specific effect type or only searches that keyword.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thoughts?

[Toffee.]

Duel Masters/Kaijudo kinda' sorta' does this with the whole effect-names/types, etc.
But they still, for the most part, explain the mechanic under each icon.

[Airride]

This card can attack directly = Direct Attacker

Union Text = this card is a Union to "X"/X-Type Monster/"X" Monsters/"Any Monster".

This card cannot be destroyed by battle/effects = Battle Protection/Effect Destruction Protection

This card is Unaffected by Spell/Trap Cards = Spell Protection/Trap Protection

Special Summon X from your graveyard = Revive X

Discard 1 card/X = Discard 1(X)

Reveal X cards from your/opponents hand/deck = Reveal X (Opponent) Hand/Deck Cards

 

 

Little things like that could save a lot of space in the long run.

They can ditch most instances of "card" in their texts, TBH.

[Therrion]

Would create less clutter. Wouldn't be as great as MtGs, but eh, whatever helps helps.

[vla1ne]

I now want to make a yu-gi-oh archetype that uses shinings effect descriptions to make a new set.

 

But yeah, i'm pretty tired of having to read long effects that should only be one line at most. Keywords are something that any card game would work better with. maybe they could have a full set overhaul for a soon-to-be-released booster set.

[Trebuchet MS]

The concept of "piercing battle damage" is an existing step in that direction. While it would remove clutter, like with Union Monsters, there's a good chance that same clutter might come back in the form of tedious reminder text. Not to mention several cards having very slight differences in their tedious card text to botch the abbreviation altogether (old Unions vs new Unions in what form of destruction they protect from)

[Not-so-Radiant Arin]

The thing with Magic is, sometimes, not all of the definitions of keywords are spelled out for you on every card, and that's an extreme error of laziness. In the CCG I'm developing, I always go the extra step to make sure I put each keyword's definition on the card, so even newer players can pick up the card, read what it says, and understand what it does. Example:

 

 

Notice that both Charge and Counterattack are bolded and italicized, meaning that they are key words, while the last skill is not a keyword, and by definition, not a "staple" "key word", for lack of a better term. Yes, it does save space on your cards, but when you have to look at an older card to see what the definition of a key word is, much less having to memorize said keyword, it makes things difficult for playing. /#shamelesspluginformyCCG.

 

Keywords are great, just have the time and effort to put them all in. And Konami is hardly the prodigies of hard work, toil and trouble, blood sweat and tears, and all that mumb-jumbo. tl;dr version.

[Sleepy]

The concept of "piercing battle damage" is an existing step in that direction. While it would remove clutter, like with Union Monsters, there's a good chance that same clutter might come back in the form of tedious reminder text. Not to mention several cards having very slight differences in their tedious card text to botch the abbreviation altogether (old Unions vs new Unions in what form of destruction they protect from)

That's part of the benefit from having a key word. That if you just add the key word, the card would update itself and there wouldn't be "old vs new" disturbances. Of course, Unions, like many other Yugioh cards, have it hard because there are already so many cards screwed running around, but it'd still be an interesting thing to implement for the future (better late than never I suppose).

If some basic set(s) need to write it in the card, that'd be the issue. It'd need to reprint the card when the term is updated (which shouldn't happen all that often, really, Unions would have had a decent 2 updates during a period of over a decade if this was a thing, and other sub-types would have no updates at all).

MTG prints the cards with the year in them. If Yugioh did something like that, it'd be less confusing as to wether that's outdated or not. Set numbers do that but it'd still be more casually friendly.

 

The thing with Magic is, sometimes, not all of the definitions of keywords are spelled out for you on every card, and that's an extreme error of laziness. In the CCG I'm developing, I always go the extra step to make sure I put each keyword's definition on the card, so even newer players can pick up the card, read what it says, and understand what it does. Example:

 

 

Notice that both Charge and Counterattack are bolded and italicized, meaning that they are key words, while the last skill is not a keyword, and by definition, not a "staple" "key word", for lack of a better term. Yes, it does save space on your cards, but when you have to look at an older card to see what the definition of a key word is, much less having to memorize said keyword, it makes things difficult for playing. /#shamelesspluginformyCCG.

 

Keywords are great, just have the time and effort to put them all in. And Konami is hardly the prodigies of hard work, toil and trouble, blood sweat and tears, and all that mumb-jumbo. tl;dr version.

 

Actually, MTG does explain in the card what terms do, but there's sort of more "expert" expantions where they just omit it, and tend to have more complex effects. I've seen cards with enough key words in them to safely assume that there's no way everything would fit in the textbox if it was all defined.

 

I personally think that it's not as much an issue if the term is not defined in the card, as long as it is an official key word that appears in the game's rulebook in a section dedicated to defining those key words up to date.

It'd be a good excuse not to throw away the rulebook when one buys a Starter/Structured Deck.

Those are usually always poket-sized and would serve at least that use to players that already know how to play in general.

 

Though, yes. The term explained on the card has that benefit. If the term is unchanging (that it should be a vast majority of the time) or if the card can simply be reprinted with the update and make it clear when did the reprint happen (sort of like MTG does), it'd be great.

 

EDIT:
Oh also, don't worry about putting a CCG as an example, and it has a better layout than the average custom card game I see around.

[Delibirb]

It is a fantastic idea; but it is too late to actually make this real. Thousands of cards needing reprints? Konami would never ever do that. People would probably just stick to the old wall-of-text cards anyway because they will be cheaper than buying the reprints/cooler/not mainstream. It is unfortunate that the expenses and time needed to make this happen will never be worth it to Konami.

[Azuh]

It is a fantastic idea; but it is too late to actually make this real. Thousands of cards needing reprints? Konami would never ever do that. People would probably just stick to the old wall-of-text cards anyway because they will be cheaper than buying the reprints/cooler/not mainstream. It is unfortunate that the expenses and time needed to make this happen will never be worth it to Konami.

Konami makes a shit load of money off reprint sets. The most bought pack in 2012 was Battle Pack. Plus if they weren't making money we wouldn't be seeing things like Legendary Collection Mega Packs

[Sleepy]

It is a fantastic idea; but it is too late to actually make this real. Thousands of cards needing reprints? Konami would never ever do that. People would probably just stick to the old wall-of-text cards anyway because they will be cheaper than buying the reprints/cooler/not mainstream. It is unfortunate that the expenses and time needed to make this happen will never be worth it to Konami.

Ever since ZeXal era brought with it the problem-solving text, lots of cards have been seeing reprints.

The Keyword wouldn't need such an extensive reprint initiative.

 

And also, just as Azuh said.

[vla1ne]

They could always just implement the new keywords and gradually release packs of older cards, The way new starter decks have old cards with updates and a few brand new ones added in. Every 4-5 months they could release 100 or so of some of the more popular older cards with a few new exclusives packed into each release.

[Delibirb]

It would reprint nearly every effect monster, which is what I was getting at. I am aware Konami sells plenty of reprints, but every one with a common effect would be ridiculous for them. I am not saying I dont want it to happen, but realistically they would never go through with it.

[vla1ne]

It would reprint nearly every effect monster, which is what I was getting at. I am aware Konami sells plenty of reprints, but every one with a common effect would be ridiculous for them. I am not saying I dont want it to happen, but realistically they would never go through with it.

I don't meant every one of them, just the more popular of the older monsters, and the fact that they can make a bit more money off of cards they already have instead of popping out new ones is an enticing deal.

 

It would simplify the game overall, and monsters with basic effects would no longer have monstrous levels of text the way The dragon rulers do. leaving room for more effect combinations (Then again, I'm not sure more effects on a single card would be good for this game.)

[Delibirb]

I don't meant every one of them, just the more popular of the older monsters, and the fact that they can make a bit more money off of cards they already have instead of popping out new ones is an enticing deal.

 

It would simplify the game overall, and monsters with basic effects would no longer have monstrous levels of text the way The dragon rulers do. leaving room for more effect combinations (Then again, I'm not sure more effects on a single card would be good for this game.)

Not reprinting all of the cards with keywords would create inconsistency within the game, which isnt good either.

[Airride]

We still have buttloads of cards that don't have problem solving text..."Inconsistencies" is not something Konami really cares about, especially with effects.

[Delibirb]

We still have buttloads of cards that don't have problem solving text..."Inconsistencies" is not something Konami really cares about, especially with effects.

You dont think the players will yell at Konami for having inconsistencies in their game, as we have with the Edrags? They care enough to know doing this will put another dent in their respect factor.

[vla1ne]

You dont think the players will yell at Konami for having inconsistencies in their game, as we have with the Edrags? They care enough to know doing this will put another dent in their respect factor.

Wouldn't doing this increase their respect? it would show that they know their card system needs rewording, and that they're doing something about it.

[Airride]

You dont think the players will yell at Konami for having inconsistencies in their game, as we have with the Edrags? They care enough to know doing this will put another dent in their respect factor.

Konami  cares about its playerbase?

[Delibirb]

Konami  cares about its playerbase?

I didnt say that. But they care about their sales. I really seriously doubt reprinting anything short of all cards with this mechanic would have a positive effect on sales. Now, maybe if they started reprinting now, keep doing what they are doing now - that is, making new cards - only the new ones with these keywords, then in a future once all of the old cards have been printed, begin their distribution. There would be little to no negative effects in sales, and would increase the game's playability (Not that they are terribly concerned with that.)

[Sleepy]

So it turns out, Konami is gonna go ahead with Keyword plans.

 

I mean, "Excavate". I think it does it's job regarding not using "reveal" like they do for resourses (hand/field), just like "leaves the field" replaced "removed from the field" for the sake of not using "remove" as a word.

 

For any other uses and purposes, I think Excavate fails pretty badly, being the replacement for a single word that happens to be shorter than it. I don't think it's good enough if it can't fix more than a sub-par detail like that.

 

What do you people think of it though?

[evilfusion]

First of all, while a keyword system is a good idea, to make it work, you need to START the game with such a system, otherwise 10+ years down the road, when you decide to update your card text, you're going to confuse the hell out of people who have older prints of the cards. That's what Problem-Solving Card Text was implemented for. Keywords won't work very well with Yu-Gi-Oh, due to the slight differences in similar effects.

 

And even if you make the argument about Madolches or Lightsworns having the same text much of the time, not all of them have it the same way. Ryko doesn't do anything during the End Phase, for example.

 

I do agree some things, like Unions, could have their card classification put into the rulebook, but it should also still be printed on the card. Granted, "Tuner" is in the rulebook with no explanation on the card, but that's because "Tuner" on its own, doesn't do anything effect related.

 

I have no comment on Excavate until I see how other cards use it.

[Goose]

Does "This card inflicts piercing damage" count?

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

First of all, while a keyword system is a good idea, to make it work, you need to START the game with such a system, otherwise 10+ years down the road, when you decide to update your card text, you're going to confuse the hell out of people who have older prints of the cards. That's what Problem-Solving Card Text was implemented for. Keywords won't work very well with Yu-Gi-Oh, due to the slight differences in similar effects.

 

And even if you make the argument about Madolches or Lightsworns having the same text much of the time, not all of them have it the same way. Ryko doesn't do anything during the End Phase, for example.

 

I do agree some things, like Unions, could have their card classification put into the rulebook, but it should also still be printed on the card. Granted, "Tuner" is in the rulebook with no explanation on the card, but that's because "Tuner" on its own, doesn't do anything effect related.

 

I have no comment on Excavate until I see how other cards use it.

 

I don't entirely agree here.

 

It's true that a key word system makes more sense to do when the game first comes out however. I wouldn't go so far as to say it wouldn't be possible to implement now.

 

The way MTG works (From what I'v seen anyways) Is they first have a keyword and Like Trample and then add a definition of what it means in (). Then after a while to where people have gotten used to the term without needing to read the definition itself they phase out the definition on the card.

 

So it can certainly be done.

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

First of all, while a keyword system is a good idea, to make it work, you need to START the game with such a system, otherwise 10+ years down the road, when you decide to update your card text, you're going to confuse the hell out of people who have older prints of the cards. That's what Problem-Solving Card Text was implemented for. Keywords won't work very well with Yu-Gi-Oh, due to the slight differences in similar effects.

For the record, MTG's keywords work brilliantly but a lot of them weren't even implemented until only a few years ago and older cards will have the abilities just spelled out with no keywords. Not that it really changes much, since keywords are always explained on common cards where they are used.


Oh and Excavate is awful. The only things that ever "excavated" in yugioh are things like Miracle Dig that interact with the banished zone as opposed to the deck.