Yep, this discussion again [Skill Drain]

[Lonk]

Derp. I forgot about that. Well, would Royal Decree get hit for any reason? I mean, it also shuts down parts of decks but doesn't kill them.

 

Royal Decree wasn't readily used though.  At least in the September format, Skill Drain saw use because Derp Rulers can play around it and be disturbingly consistent beaters.

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

I was running Inzektors at my locals and ran into a dragon player who mained skill drain, he opened it both games first turn and I never drew MST, I even had broken s**t like BLS and everything but all he needed as skill drain and a bit of backrow to kill me. My inzektor deck isn't BAD because I almost always go 4-2 or better, I just never drew anything to help and my side deck was "last minute" at best since I left my proper side deck at home.
 
This is just a single example but I guess I just have bad luck (once someone got Gateway of the six first turn twice in a row, that's fair).

This just sounds like whining because of luck in a card game.

[Loyalist]

This just sounds like whining because of luck in a card game.

I understand how it would sound like that, I felt a bit like that myself when typing it but it is just making it clear that this card CAN give people free wins, same goes to a lot of cards but this one I feel is the most skill-less in use.

 

It was just a single example.

[玄魔の王]

This argument is pointless because Macro Cosmos and Dimensional Fissure were both limited, which killed off Macro-based Decks. Nobody gave a fornication about it. Same thing would happen with Skill Drain.

That's partly because they're a pair of cards which do relatively the same thing (since when to S/T going to the Grave matter?). If there were 6 Skill Drains playable, they'd hit both.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

That's partly because they're a pair of cards which do relatively the same thing (since when to S/T going to the Grave matter?). If there were 6 Skill Drains playable, they'd hit both.

With that in mind, this card could be at 2. (I only run two, lol)

But Konami will probably take it too far and hit it to one. 2 really does make sense.

[玄魔の王]

With that in mind, this card could be at 2. (I only run two, lol)
But Konami will probably take it too far and hit it to one. 2 really does make sense.

Yeah, two is probably the most typical decks running it need. Soul Drain and Mind Drain really only went to one to push Rulers.

[Slinky]

Pretty sure just holding onto your MST isn't that bad. If it is, then there's a serious problem with your deck to begin with.

 

Oh look! someone is assuming you actually opened with MST!. Seriously, that doesn't exactly help. If you had the perfect counter to a card everytime, we wouldn't even have a banlist. 

 

I think the problem everyone is getting at, is that, your opponent can just drop and play it, and suddenly, your opponent has to get an mst to get rid of it, whether they had it before or not is irrelevant. And if they didn't have it (yes, sh!t happens, you could run a bajillion copies of a card and never draw it), they are pretty much just stuck. Of course, this is in general, other decks clearly have other options to deal with it. Some decks just dont really care if Skill Drain is played or not (Zombies or TGs), some are just absolutely destroyed by it (Lightsworn, Bujin, gadgets), and others are indifferent (i don't have an immediate example of this).

 

But personally, I'm just against a single card single-handedly taking away an element of the game. (IE: Horus locking spells, Decree locking traps etc.), There is just nothing fun about that.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

Oh look! someone is assuming you actually opened with MST!. Seriously, that doesn't exactly help. If you had the perfect counter to a card everytime, we wouldn't even have a banlist. 

Yes we would.

Cards are on banlists because they need to be.

 

Bujin aren't really "killed" by Skill Drain. I'm pretty sure grave effects would toss Skill Drain out the window.

Quilin, for example. Among MSTs, and protection for Bujins from the grave like Rabbit. And I think Peacock can search whatever you need to.

[Slinky]

Yes we would.

Cards are on banlists because they need to be.

 

Bujin aren't really "killed" by Skill Drain. I'm pretty sure grave effects would toss Skill Drain out the window.

Quilin, for example. Among MSTs, and protection for Bujins from the grave like Rabbit. And I think Peacock can search whatever you need to.

 

Yamato.

 

Enough said.

[玄魔の王]

I think the problem everyone is getting at, is that, your opponent can just drop and play it, and suddenly, your opponent has to get an mst to get rid of it, whether they had it before or not is irrelevant. And if they didn't have it (yes, sh!t happens, you could run a bajillion copies of a card and never draw it), they are pretty much just stuck. Of course, this is in general, other decks clearly have other options to deal with it. Some decks just dont really care if Skill Drain is played or not (Zombies or TGs), some are just absolutely destroyed by it (Lightsworn, Bujin, gadgets), and others are indifferent (i don't have an immediate example of this).

But personally, I'm just against a single card single-handedly taking away an element of the game. (IE: Horus locking spells, Decree locking traps etc.), There is just nothing fun about that.

As opposed to cards that are played and make so little impact the opponent doesn't have to address it?

[Slinky]

As opposed to cards that are played and make so little impact the opponent doesn't have to address it?

 

Nah, its just that if it restricts a specific set of cards, for example. Decree just seals off traps completely. you just can't use them period. Its that type of stuff I'm talking about. 

[Catterjune]

This just sounds like whining because of luck in a card game.

You say it like it's a bad thing. The game should rely less on luck and more on skill, otherwise you might as well just flip a coin if you wanna practice how lucky you are.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

You say it like it's a bad thing. The game should rely less on luck and more on skill, otherwise you might as well just flip a coin if you wanna practice how lucky you are.

But the "skill" Konami tries to create winds up being Dragon Rulers or other cards I'm not going to mention.

 

In short, bull crap.

[Sora1499]

Skill Drain is an unfair card: it induces a continuous game state that is constantly rewarding the user and brutally punishing the opponent (most of the time). And BTH is a horrible analogy; BTH is a one-time flip and it's gone card, whereas Skill Drain makes a permanent change in the game state. HOWEVER, I do not believe it should be banned, because it is a side deck and anti meta option that players deserve access to, but they do not deserve access to it at 3 as a sustainable wincon.

[Dog King]

Whenever I go up against a Skill Drain deck, I nearly lose all the time. I really don't like the card, but not sure of it being hit. Also idk why I never make a deck which can use it.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

it induces a continuous game state that is constantly rewarding the user and brutally punishing the opponent

This is what most decks are like today, no? Looking for that footing that causes this scenario, or one close to it?

But I admit, one card doing it is a bit much. 

[Toffee.]

Whenever I go up against a Skill Drain deck, I nearly lose all the time. I really don't like the card, but not sure of it being hit. Also idk why I never make a deck which can use it.

But if every deck was one that ran Skill Drain, then everything becomes single-minded.
And wheres the fun in that?
Plus, in that regard, Skill Drain then becomes useless.

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

People also ridiculously overrate just how dead decks are to Skill Drain. A lot of decks don't "just die" to it at all, and the decks that can play it are either inconsistent, or slow as dirt, which gives you time to recover.

[Sora1499]

[quote name="The Hounds Of Anubis" post="6329938" timestamp="1388618782"]People also ridiculously overrate just how dead decks are to Skill Drain. A lot of decks don't "just die" to it at all, and the decks that can play it are either inconsistent, or slow as dirt, which gives you time to recover.[/quote] I don't think we can make such a sweeping assumption when it often differs on a game by game basis. I mean, a slow Skill Drain deck that just dropped Barbaros is probably gonna win. Plus a lot of decks that run Skill Drain run like 10-15+ back row which prevents you from recovering a lot of the time.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

People also ridiculously overrate just how dead decks are to Skill Drain. A lot of decks don't "just die" to it at all, and the decks that can play it are either inconsistent, or slow as dirt, which gives you time to recover.

Exactly. I mean, the most Stun can typically do is Barbaros out of no where. What stopping power/win condition to Stun decks have?

Then again, I would be the kind of person just to play a deck, even if it would lose, just to screw with people and ruin their night. 

[Loyalist]

 

People also ridiculously overrate just how dead decks are to Skill Drain. A lot of decks don't "just die" to it at all, and the decks that can play it are either inconsistent, or slow as dirt, which gives you time to recover.

Darkworlds aren't "dirt" and last format dragon rulers were barely affected by it other than losing the effects of some of their exceeds. Although DW haven't topped recently and D Rulers are being hit that isn't so relevent now but this format is still young so at the moment there are no "Best decks".

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

The decks that use it best are Hero Stun (which rarely even main Barbaros), Dark Worlds (which struggle to main it with TGU, Malefic Stardust turbo version can use it fine though, but it clogs there) and Malefics. Heroes suck at killing someone in reasonable time frames. DWs have serious consistency issues. Malefics die to a light breeze, if you catch my drift.

[Sora1499]

[quote name="TechGenusMaster" post="6329944" timestamp="1388619015"]Exactly. I mean, the most Stun can typically do is Barbaros out of no where. What stopping power/win condition to Stun decks have? Then again, I would be the kind of person just to play a deck, even if it would lose, just to screw with people [s]and ruin their night[/s]. [/quote] T.G. Stun has like 9 floaters to sustain itself along with its backrow. Rai-Oh and Fossil Dyna are actually really good if you can support them. Malefic Cyber End Dragon can beat over anything. So stun *has* its wincon.

[quote name="The Hounds Of Anubis" post="6329948" timestamp="1388619187"]The decks that use it best are Hero Stun (which rarely even main Barbaros), Dark Worlds (which struggle to main it with TGU, Malefic Stardust turbo version can use it fine though, but it clogs there) and Malefics. Heroes suck at killing someone in reasonable time frames. DWs have serious consistency issues. Malefics die to a light breeze, if you catch my drift.[/quote] You probably know better than I cuz you're the residing champion of DW, but I've played the deck myself and it was scary consistent.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

T.G. Stun has like 9 floaters to sustain itself along with its backrow. Rai-Oh and Fossil Dyna are actually really good if you can support them. Malefic Cyber End Dragon can beat over anything. So stun *has* its wincon.

I need to rethink the deck then. xD

Then again, I hate the Stun build. Plays far too slow for me.

But really, if it just comes down to beaters VS beaters, with a few stopping cards, are we not playing the original Yugioh? =D

 

So basically, this card is really just annoying, and not in any consistent decks? I am starting to wonder what the big deal is.

It basically turns the game state to Gen1. Bad thing? 

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

If DWs were really consistent they'd have more than a few tops over the year and a bit the deck's been available. Not to mention they're the easiest deck to hate post-board out there. Literally any deck can play more answers than they have Graphas.