Yep, this discussion again [Skill Drain]

[Lonk]

 

We've been having this same discussion for over two years, and people's opinions of it have only gone down, do we really need to keep bringing this card back?

 

Better than discussing Tour Guide for the umpteenth time.

[evilfusion]

Skill Drain would be ridiculous if it said "Monster Effects cannot be activated", rather than just "Effects are negated". There are cards that get around Skill Drain, such as Stardust, Rai-oh, Lonefire, Dark Worlds...for better or worse...etc. With so many cards that activate from the hand or Graveyard, or Tribute themselves as costs, Skill Drain isn't a 100% win just because Effect Monsters are a key Deck component.

 

Yes, it hurts Xyz quite a bit, but some people overrely on specific sources of removal, especially Monster Effects. Some archetypes have removal that activates on the Field and furthers a Deck's goal, such as Fire Fists, Gravekeepers, etc. Skill Drain countering them is not an instant win condition, but it is a setback. Unless you designed your Deck to take advantage of Skill Drain, you're screwing yourself over just as much.

 

And since Decks built around Drain are usually terrible without Drain active, it's a similar boat to Gravekeepers without Necrovalley (bad example due to the locking of Graveyard issue) or similar Decks that rely on specific cards to pull off their major plays. But Drain has so many exploits, ESPECIALLY the Graveyard effects, that it's not so bad as to need to be seriously hit. It's an anti-meta card that doesn't just say "I'm face-up, you lose".

[Toffee.]

Better than discussing Rabbit for the umpteenth time.

Fixed*

[Solemn Silver]

I feel the same way about light and dark imprisoning mirrors, being a chaos player myself.

[Miror B]

Unless you designed your Deck to take advantage of Skill Drain, you're screwing yourself over just as much.

If you're running skill drain when skill drain screws your deck over, you aren't doing something right.

[Wildflame]

Sometimes, I wish that Dire Wolf could pop itself as a cost in order to get rid of this.

[Wizarus]

Yeah it's stops meta, and stops non-meta decks as well. But the game has degenerated to the point where it's no longer the problem it once was, so whatever.

[evilfusion]

If you're running skill drain when skill drain screws your deck over, you aren't doing something right.

 

That's my point. It's not a card that anyone can just throw into their Deck and insta-win.

[Sleepy]

The big issue is that not all decks can actually adapt to it.

I've had times where my decks didn't care about it at all.

Some times it'd just plain seal my current resources altogether.

Sometimes it'd reduce my options but I'd still be able to do something, and when it'd happen, my opponent would still have the lead by bringing out something like Barbaros, since some decks just can't reach 3000+ ATK and have their most consistent removal coming from monster effects, or Rai-oh since some decks' only alternative is really to get their Extra Deck and try to bring something big to get by.

 

One could say that it's a problem in the deck building, but that could also be said when defending Shock Master, so that can't be the argument.

Skill Drain is personally in my hate list, but there's a few things I'd say about it.

 

-It doesn't exactly produce a full lock, and most decent decks have some sort of alternative that still works. Fortress in Gadgets, Stardust bypasses it, etc. on top of the generic removal and/or side options against it if it really is such a bad match-up for that particular build. 

 

-Design wise, this is actually a perfect card to look at for when you design a deck theme. If something like this hurts X deck too badly, it's surprisingly varied in regard to what kinds of routes of card designing could be taken to give small outs against it, without it being situational or specific against it. So it's the type of card that more than calling for a hit could be used as a base to expand on many decks. (Sorry if I'm not making too much sense here. Almost 4am, I had too much coffee, and well, IDK).

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

If you can't adapt to Skill Drain you deserve to lose to Skill Drain, though.

[Sleepy]

Sometimes there are decks that just can't adapt to certain things though, and it's not even because they might be outdated. 

For example, Heraldic Beasts and all of their revival, or Zombies from the synchro era, VS Necrovalley.

 

So I don't know how much that can actually hold against Skill Drain.

It's not a total lockdown for many decks and most of the decks I can think of that take a lot of damage from it, don't belong to the competitive scene at all.

[Aix]

If you can't adapt to Skill Drain you deserve to lose to Skill Drain, though.

Why should I adapt my Decks just because of one card, though?

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

Why do you feel entitled to not have to react to what your opponent is doing?

[Aix]

Why do you feel entitled to not have to react to what your opponent is doing?

But it's one card that results in me having to change my Deck around, which often results in a loss in power and consistency making it less able to deal with other Decks.

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

Pretty sure just holding onto your MST isn't that bad. If it is, then there's a serious problem with your deck to begin with.

[Althemia]

But it's one card that results in me having to change my Deck around, which often results in a loss in power and consistency making it less able to deal with other Decks.

This is why you're supposed to play this game in matches.

[Wizarus]

Pretty sure just holding onto your MST isn't that bad. If it is, then there's a serious problem with your deck to begin with.

 

You can say the same for any continuous S/T card in the game. Just because MST is in the game doesn't make anything less problematic.

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

...Yes it does.

In a game where there's no S/T removal then Skill Drain is broken. In a game with a lot of S/T removal it's fair.

[Aerion Brightflame]

I don't think that's the right logic to say with it. Because it's actually bad logic saying that because counters to the play exist, the play is fine, or less of an issue, because it's true of almost every card ever printed.

 

But the point is more: MST is already a staple meaning every deck does come with an answer to it. Because of that, it's not a card that causes insta-wins to the extent that people say, because it's smarter to hold onto Backrow removal occasions where you need it as opposed to blind popping the moment you get it. The exception being if you are making a push for game where you want it to go through.

 

Like Koko said, this game is played in matches. Skill Drain might be able to win games because you weren't expecting it, but matches are less of an excuse. You know it's a possibility, so logically you should be smart and conserve backrow removal. If you don't do that, you deserve to lose the match. Yes, you might not draw into the removal, but the same is true of them drawing into MST.

 

I think.

[Goose]

Why should I adapt my Decks just because of one card, though?

 

Same thing happens with Necrovalley, same thing happens with that new Felgrand Dragon.  Basically any card, even a facedown, should force you to react.

[Sora1499]

IMO, this card is like Ophion. It's a potent anti-meta card that players should have access to, but not at 3 as a sustainable wincon. I'd be fine with it at 1-2.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

But an entire deck would crumble without Skill Drain. Ophion is just one of many tools.

Forgive me for saying this, but if you can't get rid of one trap that doesn't actually destroy, burn, or do anything other than say "No," you might need a better deck.

 

EDIT: Not the best way to word it, so sorry in advance. I do realize people set out to protect this thing quite well, but in that case, it becomes just like Necrovalley. Shouldn't that mean Necro should be hit?
 

[Lonk]

But an entire deck would crumble without Skill Drain. Ophion is just one of many tools.

Forgive me for saying this, but if you can't get rid of one trap that doesn't actually destroy, burn, or do anything other than say "No," you might need a better deck.

 

EDIT: Not the best way to word it, so sorry in advance. I do realize people set out to protect this thing quite well, but in that case, it becomes just like Necrovalley. Shouldn't that mean Necro should be hit?
 

 

This argument is pointless because Macro Cosmos and Dimensional Fissure were both limited, which killed off Macro-based Decks.  Nobody gave a fornication about it.  Same thing would happen with Skill Drain.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

This argument is pointless because Macro Cosmos and Dimensional Fissure were both limited, which killed off Macro-based Decks.  Nobody gave a fornication about it.  Same thing would happen with Skill Drain.

Derp. I forgot about that. Well, would Royal Decree get hit for any reason? I mean, it also shuts down parts of decks but doesn't kill them.

[Loyalist]

But an entire deck would crumble without Skill Drain. Ophion is just one of many tools.

Forgive me for saying this, but if you can't get rid of one trap that doesn't actually destroy, burn, or do anything other than say "No," you might need a better deck.

I was running Inzektors at my locals and ran into a dragon player who mained skill drain, he opened it both games first turn and I never drew MST, I even had broken s**t like BLS and everything but all he needed as skill drain and a bit of backrow to kill me. My inzektor deck isn't BAD because I almost always go 4-2 or better, I just never drew anything to help and my side deck was "last minute" at best since I left my proper side deck at home.

 

This is just a single example but I guess I just have bad luck (once someone got Gateway of the six first turn twice in a row, that's fair).