The Pen & Sword Lounge

[Agro]

No, I just decided to enroll in a Community college instead of a university. The one I planned to go to required a score that I was kissing the ceiling under.

I would have still suggested taking it again. I got 27 the first time and managed to get it to 33 the second.

/damndoublepostingwhenitssupposedtojustadditon

[The Warden]

I am personally for energy drinks gaining an age requirement. When I was working in a shop, it would kill me inside when I was selling 5-year olds cans of Mother. F**king 5-year olds. What do they even need an energy drink for? They're freaking made of energy. And, it's not as if those energy drinks are very healthy either

[EPTinYugi]

I'm also majoring in Comm Arts and I can attest that Film essays are weird.

It's all about analyzing what the film is DOING rather than what the film is SAYING. Like, oh, the director used canted angles here here and here. Don't tell me what they're trying to say with this technique; tell me what this technique is DOING to the rest of the film.

It sounds easy, but in practice, writing about it is really weird.

This. Film classes mostly want the technical, though the classes I toke allowed us some opinion on the parts of the film like: lighting, acting, the special effects, or even the color, they want nothing of the story unless it has to do with the with the way the director did these stories. If anyone is going to take a film class with essays like these, be prepared, they don't want spoilers, like my old teacher said. The only time I'll ever, maybe, talk about the story, is my English class; that might never happen because we go to quick with the class. 

[Agro]

This. Film classes mostly want the technical, though the classes I toke allowed us some opinion on the parts of the film like: lighting, acting, the special effects, or even the color, they want nothing of the story unless it has to do with the with the way the director did these stories. If anyone is going to take a film class with essays like these, be prepared, they don't want spoilers, like my old teacher said. The only time I'll ever, maybe, talk about the story, is my English class; that might never happen because we go to quick with the class.

I wouldn't say that they don't want the story. If something like a motif is obviously connecting parts of the story, they'll want you to make note of it. For example, in a paper on the 2013 film Side Effects, I wrote about how the motif of a character looking into a mirror was used as a means of characterization throughout the story.

Though I don't think I've ever dealt with a teacher who didn't want spoilers. That's really weird. Usually in any class, whether for a film or a book paper, you're supposed to be writing it under the assumption that the reader has also read/seen the work.

[EPTinYugi]

I wouldn't say that they don't want the story. If something like a motif is obviously connecting parts of the story, they'll want you to make note of it. For example, in a paper on the 2013 film Side Effects, I wrote about how the motif of a character looking into a mirror was used as a means of characterization throughout the story.

Though I don't think I've ever dealt with a teacher who didn't want spoilers. That's really weird. Usually in any class, whether for a film or a book paper, you're supposed to be writing it under the assumption that the reader has also read/seen the work.

That's what I meant, I didn't wrote it out correctly but yes, it's like that. I had a Film analysis class, where we would write down the motifs and part of the films that make it work, only parts of it if it fits the motif or technique. Our class went the opposite, the reader has not read/seen the work, we were basically writing a movie review as I see it. I even hate reading movie reviews due to I feel they're opinionated, or weird and/or stupid. I just gave up on reading them and use the trailer to see if I like it enough to see it; I feel I should be the one to see if I want to go instead of a random man in another state. I'm sure some reviews can be helpful.

[Agro]

If you're reading a movie review and it's not opinionated, you should find a better movie review because it's not going to tell you anything you'd want to know about whether or not you might like to see the movie.

I hate the idea people have that good reviews are completely objective. It's such... crap :\ Movie reviews are supposed to be opinionated. How can you say something artistic is good or bad without an opinion? Also think that just going off of trailers isn't the best way to go either. There's a lot of terrible movies with good trailers. Looking at you Cop Out

Far and away the best thing to do as a consumer is find a reviewer whose tastes tend to fall closest in line with yours and use their reviews as basis for whether you want to see the movie. Trailers are good too, but I wouldn't decide to see a movie without something else- especially if you're paying for them.

[Ren✧]

Rewinding to the topic concerning school related essays, I would imagine that you are presented with more leeway as you reach the upper classes of high school and college. However, I am only a sophomore in high school and so far have only had teachers that cared about teaching to a test. 

 

I am personally for energy drinks gaining an age requirement. When I was working in a shop, it would kill me inside when I was selling 5-year olds cans of Mother. F**king 5-year olds. What do they even need an energy drink for? They're freaking made of energy. And, it's not as if those energy drinks are very healthy either

 

Agreed. When I first saw energy drinks, I was thinking things like Gatorade, which I think are completely fine for anyone, however, things such as Monster & Amp definitely need an age restriction. Probably not 21, but I would think 16 for sure. At the age, at least in the US, is when most teenagers get a job and start experiencing late hours and whatnot, so I see the necessity. 

 

 

If you're reading a movie review and it's not opinionated, you should find a better movie review because it's not going to tell you anything you'd want to know about whether or not you might like to see the movie.

I hate the idea people have that good reviews are completely objective. It's such... crap :\ Movie reviews are supposed to be opinionated. How can you say something artistic is good or bad without an opinion? Also think that just going off of trailers isn't the best way to go either. There's a lot of terrible movies with good trailers. Looking at you Cop Out

Far and away the best thing to do as a consumer is find a reviewer whose tastes tend to fall closest in line with yours and use their reviews as basis for whether you want to see the movie. Trailers are good too, but I wouldn't decide to see a movie without something else- especially if you're paying for them.

 

I was once assigned by AP Art History teacher to write a completely objective essay about Reuben's Raising of the Cross, which is a great work of art. However, writing a completely objective essay was difficult and boring. After turning it in, the teacher told us that we would never have to do it again and that he only assigned it to show us that art, of all kinds, are about emotion and cannot be broken down into a set formula to determine whether or not it is good. So I would have to agree that when reviewing a work, being subjective is a needed trait. 

[Agro]

I was once assigned by AP Art History teacher to write a completely objective essay about Reuben's Raising of the Cross, which is a great work of art. However, writing a completely objective essay was difficult and boring. After turning it in, the teacher told us that we would never have to do it again and that he only assigned it to show us that art, of all kinds, are about emotion and cannot be broken down into a set formula to determine whether or not it is good. So I would have to agree that when reviewing a work, being subjective is a needed trait. 

I will say that there's something to be admired about a work of art that's technically sound and makes great use of the technical aspects to convey emotion or meaning. Take how Robert Louis Stevenson uses pronouns in "The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" to convey the doctor's loss of self control. Or how George Bernard Shaw completely ignores all uses of apostrophes in "Mrs. Warren's Profession" to demonstrate that he has no idea what he's talking abou- I mean because he doesn't like unnecessary excess.

 

Word repetition, sentence/paragraph/chapter structure can all show signs of good craftsmanship, so I wouldn't say it's IMPOSSIBLE to differentiate between average art and a masterpiece. I mean, if that were the case, we could ignore Birth of a Nation. And maaaaan, do we wish we could ignore that movie.

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

So I want to raise something.

 

I haven't read or reviewed anything much (certainly not as much as I intended to) since I came back, other than adulation over Dead Zone. But got back into it yesterday with two stories and read their opening chapters and gave feedback which took about 15 minutes each time, and when I read them back after posting I realised 'oh heck, I've been mostly nothing but negative here' and had pointed out quite a few minor to major things I had various issues with, but had praised very little to go with thwm. And they weren't terrible chapters either, some issues yes but not at all as catastrophic as I felt like I was making out compared to some dross that appears time to time, but despite getting a little enjoyment from both when I tried to think of good stuff to say... I couldn't really put my finger on what had been good as easily as I could bad.

 

Which made me feel like a jerk, given how many times I've looked at feedback for my fics and seen comments (justifiably) pointing out this and that and thought 'why you only point out the bad and not mention the good stuff!' <_< I should give people a break, it's not easy this feedback lark. Critisism is a lot easier to make than praise, and probably more helpful in terms of learning where to improve, but I know seeing just a wall of negative without mentioning the good that was there as well to balance it out and encourage is depressing and motivating, so I want to improve on this thing.

 

Anyway, the point I'm rambling towards is what tips/advice/techniques are there for giving good, balanced, constructive feedback?

[Agro]

Start with the good. Even if it's not much, it still makes people take the negatives better.

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

Start with the good. Even if it's not much, it still makes people take the negatives better.

 

See I'd have thought to go the other way round. Or better yet to use the bad news sandwich technique of good point, bad point, good point might work well, even with a thick filling of bad softened with a good bits at the start and end and making it look like 2 good comments to 1 bad.

[Agro]

Yeah, but if you do that, the good points are probably gonna get lost in the bad. Most folks tend to focus on the bad points you make than the good ones.

If you set up first saying something like "Here's all the things you do well," it helps out the general air of the reader while reading the post when you go into "but here are some things I think you should improve on." Basically, you want them to understand you're trying to offer them advice to improve and you don't completely hate their piece, and it helps to get it out first and foremost.

At least that's the way I see it.

[The Warden]

The problem is is that trying to explain why you liked something in detail is pretty much you pissing in the wind. It's already established as to why you liked it; it doesn't require further impressing upon it unless you want the author's d.

You need to express in extreme detail how and why they went wrong so the author can understand and avert further mistakes like the one you just a paragraph explaining. That is the entire point of review and criticism, where it's pretty much 90% criticism and 10% praise. The bad MUST overshadow the good in order for them to learn, and therefore evolve as a writer.

[Ren✧]

Just here to remind everyone that short stories are due tomorrow. I've only received a few, so I'm hoping that you guys can get in some last minute entries. I would also like to discuss how you would like to go about the contest. Seeing as it is a mix of works by different authors I didn't want to make a thread in Creative Writing like I had originally planned. So what are the thoughts on that?

 

 

So I want to raise something.

 

I haven't read or reviewed anything much (certainly not as much as I intended to) since I came back, other than adulation over Dead Zone. But got back into it yesterday with two stories and read their opening chapters and gave feedback which took about 15 minutes each time, and when I read them back after posting I realised 'oh heck, I've been mostly nothing but negative here' and had pointed out quite a few minor to major things I had various issues with, but had praised very little to go with thwm. And they weren't terrible chapters either, some issues yes but not at all as catastrophic as I felt like I was making out compared to some dross that appears time to time, but despite getting a little enjoyment from both when I tried to think of good stuff to say... I couldn't really put my finger on what had been good as easily as I could bad.

 

Which made me feel like a jerk, given how many times I've looked at feedback for my fics and seen comments (justifiably) pointing out this and that and thought 'why you only point out the bad and not mention the good stuff!' <_< I should give people a break, it's not easy this feedback lark. Critisism is a lot easier to make than praise, and probably more helpful in terms of learning where to improve, but I know seeing just a wall of negative without mentioning the good that was there as well to balance it out and encourage is depressing and motivating, so I want to improve on this thing.

 

Anyway, the point I'm rambling towards is what tips/advice/techniques are there for giving good, balanced, constructive feedback?

 

I always have a similar feeling when I review anything, but I think that Broke N is right that we don't learn if there isn't enough negative feedback

[DL]

You can always post our stories in different threads and then make a poll linking to all of them.

 

You can read all and say which one you decided is the best, and then you can also make the poll to see which the PEOPLE OF YCM liked the best

 

 

Since I know we probably wont get many votes.

 

Oh btw

The trick to good criticism is to point out the bad, but make the writer feel like, if he improves on the points you mentioned, you WOULD legitimately enjoy his writing.

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

Just here to remind everyone that short stories are due tomorrow. I've only received a few, so I'm hoping that you guys can get in some last minute entries. I would also like to discuss how you would like to go about the contest. Seeing as it is a mix of works by different authors I didn't want to make a thread in Creative Writing like I had originally planned. So what are the thoughts on that?

 

I always have a similar feeling when I review anything, but I think that Broke N is right that we don't learn if there isn't enough negative feedback

 

Sorry I haven't made an entry to this, but have had too much else on I need to focus on at the moment like job applications and a ton of other stuff. I haven't really felt much like writing the last couple of weeks.

 

Hmm... I guess that all makes sense about the reviewing, although I'd still like to try and raise a few good points to go with the bad where possible.

[DL]

Just mention at the end, that apart from that, there were good points as well.

But the author himself should know where the good was, if your review was thorough enough.

 

 

If someone calls you an asshole he obviously doesnt know that posting his work here leaves it open to any and all nonoffensive criticism.

[Thar]

I haven't really felt much like writing the last couple of weeks.

 

Same here. I could've finished Crab x Pika a few weeks ago, had it not been for all these morning shifts I've been getting to obscure my schedule even more.

 

If someone calls you an a****** he obviously doesnt know that posting his work here leaves it open to any and all non-offensive criticism.

 

Yeah, unless the reviewer says up-front that you suck at writing, then that makes them an asshole.

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

Same here. I could've finished Crab x Pika a few weeks ago, had it not been for all these morning shifts I've been getting to obscure my schedule even more.

 

 

Yeah, unless the reviewer says up-front that you suck at writing, then that makes them an a******.

 

We'd be able to get so much done if it was for inconvenient crap like work.

 

Just doing nights and being on and off is taking its toll now, especially given the sdecline of the place and the new management who are just making everyone do impossible workloads and are just making everyone feel miserable at work. People are leaving in droves at the moment and hopefully one of the three or four jobs I've applied for this week and I'm really excited about will be interested and give me a secure way out into a happier role and more stable lifestyle, which can only help with everything.

[Ren✧]

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/314564-writing-contest-i-hate-when-things-dont-end-like-you-octopus/

[DL]

Wow, theyre shorter than I imagined,

 

Also, like I mentioned in the thread, shouldnt there be a poll? XD

[The Warden]

They're only set to five pages in a word doc. That's tiny by YCM standards.

[Thar]

Wow, theyre shorter than I imagined,

 

Also, like I mentioned in the thread, shouldnt there be a poll? XD

 

Well yeah, 5 pages maximum isn't that much reading.

 

Also, I expect nothing more than a few votes at most, given the number of people who don't feel like reading anything serious this forum has to offer.

[DL]

I guess thats true

Thats why I felt Renegade should decide.

[The Warden]

I wonder if Ren will allow in my late entry