evilfusion Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 If Yata did something to ensure you couldn't skip a Draw Phase infinitely, I'd agree with that. If it destroyed itself rather than returned to the hand, I'd have less issue with it. Keep in mind, I don't think Yata would have much competitive impact. It's mediocre in every way. EXCEPT that its effect is broken if you pull it off. Skipping an opponent's draw phase, to me, is an unacceptably powerful tactic that I only slightly tolerate on Fenrir because its requirement to kill a monster in battle with a mere 1400 ATK (and its necessity of being in WATER Decks) makes it less of a complete shutdown. The fact Yata can be used in certain situations to auto-win over the course of X turns while the opponent can't do anything makes me feel that it should never be unbanned purely because of that. Though it is amusing when in the videogames, the AI will surrender if you Yata locked them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Reminder: Raigeki is limited and Dark Hole is semi-limited; these alone make Yata very dangerous. Infernoids can't really use Yata because I'm an idiot who forgot how Reasoning works, but what about their cousins, the Fire Kings?They're in the business of clearing boards like it's going out of style too, and guess what? Yata being in the hand at the time means it's not going anywhere when they do. Though it is amusing when in the videogames, the AI will surrender if you Yata locked them. This is the only way to get AI to surrender, actually, but, be honest, wouldn't you surrender to it too, unless your opponent had almost no cards left in the deck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinny Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I honestly dont like the thought of it just from the point that we have so many lock cards right now anyway, i mean, 3 Denkko Sekka aint fun :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 If Yata did something to ensure you couldn't skip a Draw Phase infinitely, I'd agree with that. If it destroyed itself rather than returned to the hand, I'd have less issue with it. Keep in mind, I don't think Yata would have much competitive impact. It's mediocre in every way. EXCEPT that its effect is broken if you pull it off. Skipping an opponent's draw phase, to me, is an unacceptably powerful tactic that I only slightly tolerate on Fenrir because its requirement to kill a monster in battle with a mere 1400 ATK (and its necessity of being in WATER Decks) makes it less of a complete shutdown. The fact Yata can be used in certain situations to auto-win over the course of X turns while the opponent can't do anything makes me feel that it should never be unbanned purely because of that. Though it is amusing when in the videogames, the AI will surrender if you Yata locked them. Lots of things are broken if you can pull it off. Shooting Quasar Dragon gives you a high chance of winning if you can successfully make it, but because it's so difficult to make people aren't using Quasar decks to any degree of success. For the same reason people aren't going to use Yata except people who value the thrill of winning occasionally in a big way over the thrill of winning often in an uninspiring way, but those kinds of people are going to exist no matter what and the people playing Yata lock.dek are probably the sort of people who'd be inclined to play Junk Quasar. Of course there are certain situations where Yata is going to be the one card needed and it will be amazing and a complete shutdown etc etc etc but those situations are not going to occur because the chances of them having Yata in that situation are very very slim - chances are Yata will not be in the deck in the first place because people will choose a more consistent card over Yata. To clarify, I couldn't care less if Yata is unbanned or not - I don't have a particular theory when it comes to the banlist, I don't think cards NEED to come off the banlist wherever possible, but I don't think banned cards should stay banned forever or anything like that. All I'm saying is that it could come back without having a negative (or indeed, positive) effect on the game simply because it will have next to no effect on the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Have you ever considered that maybe Raigeki and Dark Hole are the problems? Those cards shift momentum, Yata stabilizes and maintains momentum Ihops line is my entire rant in one line. Yata makes sure players who should win, win anyway That is the way a healthy game should play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Why did I come here?I mean. This is really not going anywhere. I think every page I've seen the same things being said, it's like being trapped in some kind of crazy purgatory.Time for an oversimplified idea of what's going on. Luck is annoying. however without luck things can easily get stale. Certain games are designed for luck-less matches, some aren't, it's that simple.This card won't change much being brought in because it's not useful in a lot of situations. However there is a chance that playing this card will essentially win you the game and make your opponent not being able to do anything. (Which would require some luck to pull off, since you need to have this card at the right moment). That's all that there is to this argument as far as I can tell.So, to me, I don't see a reason to really keep it gone, however there's also no point to bringing it back. Since it does almost nothing and would usually not be a great choice to put in a deck. In conclusion.This argument is kinda pointless. And you people need to learn how to present your opinion without insults, rude language, assumptions, and the ability to understand people don't think about things the same way as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Have you ever considered that maybe Raigeki and Dark Hole are the problems? Those cards shift momentum, Yata stabilizes and maintains momentum Yes, as has been said multiple times, Yata makes already dodgy cards much worse, and for that reason, it should not come back.Yata slams on the brakes and sends your opponent through the windshield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Yes, as has been said multiple times, Yata makes already dodgy cards much worse, and for that reason, it should not come back.Yata slams on the brakes and sends your opponent through the windshield.So idea, how about we put the blow out cards like Hole back at 1, Ban the design cancer that is Raigeki and put the fairest of the three, Yata, back at 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 So idea, how about we put the blow out cards like Hole back at 1, Ban the design cancer that is Raigeki and put the fairest of the three, Yata, back at 1? Yata is cancer too. Keep it watching over the jail of the dammed like Pet Shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Yata is cancer too. Keep it watching over the jail of the dammed like Pet Shop.You still haven't made a coherent argument as to why that's so. People shut down my luck theory, and I agree maybe that was a bit extreme. Yata is not viable to peck infinite times. The only design restriction it will create is stop mass nukes, which is a good think IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astolfo Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 You still haven't made a coherent argument as to why that's so. People shut down my luck theory, and I agree maybe that was a bit extreme. Yata is not viable to peck infinite times. The only design restriction it will create is stop mass nukes, which is a good think IMOAnd why can't it peck infinite times viably? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 And why can't it peck infinite times viably? Because, well, it can't. You need to clear the opponent's board without a normal summon, make sure they don't have an out, make sure you then have a way of clearing the opponent's board again on the next turn assuming they still have some cards to play with, etc etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delibirb Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Because, well, it can't. You need to clear the opponent's board without a normal summon, make sure they don't have an out, make sure you then have a way of clearing the opponent's board again on the next turn assuming they still have some cards to play with, etc etc etc.Not hard mid to late game if you're keeping them from drawing. And likely you're not going for the yata lock if you can't maintain it. I think Yata is one of those cards that should come back but just can't. It's a sad truth and a loss, but a necessity. Honestly though, reading all these comments is like a double yata lock; neither side is drawing new resources :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pchi Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Please, mods, lock this stupid thread already, we're not gaining anything from this discussion, besides headaches :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted June 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 There's nothing to gain since the agreements is largely in favor of unban wale the arguments for banning are a mixture of Subjective, ignorance and bias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astolfo Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 There's nothing to gain since the agreements is largely in favor of unban wale the arguments for banning are a mixture of Subjective, ignorance and biasLet's not do the "no they're wrong" fingerpointing baseless stupid sheet again, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted June 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Let's not do the "no they're wrong" fingerpointing baseless stupid s*** again, thanks.Yata can't lockRaigeki is brokenThe only design it restricts is mass destruction which needs to be restricted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Let's not do the "no they're wrong" fingerpointing baseless stupid s*** again, thanks.I wasn't going to say anything, but I've noticed everytime this thread seems to calm down, you seem to go on some sort of lash out and start the clashing all over again. Really, just stop. Your unnecessary manhunt against Winter has gone long enough. OT: Yata can come back, but Konami supposedly said they wanted every card *except Yata* to come back, so unfortunately we won't see the day where this thing is free. However, I can understand why, and EvilFusion is the one with the most sensible point here. It is garbage, but it has a lot of power inside it, but at the same time Liquier is on point in that it wouldn't be Yata's fault that it does what it does. As it stands tho, the odds are against it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astolfo Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 I'm talking about crap like this: the arguments for banning are a mixture of Subjective, ignorance and biasBut this thread has long since outlived any actual discussion, and the arguments go in a circle, because both of the sides firmly stand at their own side and lash out and completely disagree with the other. This is a waste of my time, I'm out. Pchi could've just made the post about asking for the lock, which this thread needs anyways. And then Winter just has to go and then make another completely unnecessary jab at the other side's arguments. It's hypocritical too, but I'm not going to bother with this stupid issue anymore. For god's sake, just lock this dumb thread and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 For god's sake, just lock this dumb thread and be done with it. Locking dumb thread and being done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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