Common Misplays

[Blake]

Something I notice a lot as I play assorted people and randoms... Is that a lot of misplays get made over and over, because people really don't stop to think critically. Even things that seem like they should be, in some way, common sense.

 

In the interest of both improvements and discussion, I'll make a couple examples that, really, are far too common with said randoms.

 

Example A:

1. Player 1 begins turn 1.
2. P1 activates "A Hero Lives" to special summon "Elemental HERO Shadow Mist" from the deck. 
3. P1 activates "Shadow Mist" to add "Mask Change" from the deck to their hand.
4. P1 immediately actives "Mask Change", targetting "Shadow Mist", to summon "Masked HERO Dark Law".

What's wrong with this example?

 

Well, when we look at Shadow Mist's second effect, half of the issue becomes clear. When she's sent to the grave, she searches out a HERO monster from the deck... However, she cannot use that effect during the same turn that she searches a "Change" Quickplay Spell, given her restriction.

 

But that isn't the only issue. Going first, with no fear of end phase MST, you gain more value by waiting.

 

If the opponent's going to blind MST, you may get a free +1 out of it. Sure, they may force you to use it earlier than you wanted, but it's still more value than activating it immediately on Shadow Mist.

 

And if they don't have the shot/opportunity to shoot it, then you can activate it on demand. They use an effect that searches? Chain to it. Sure, Dark Law sitting out meant this already would get value... but they can't stop Dark Law from ruining their day as easily.

 

Another example is board clear. Dark Hole and Raigeki, especially. If you leave a defense position Shadow Mist out, the opponent may very well have to waste removal on your floater, because not doing so makes the former scenarios live. You get great value off of this, as you don't lose your Mask Change and your floater, well... floats.

 

Even with EP MST, a lot of the time, you can still get more value by waiting. Changes to your gameplan, like Call of the Haunted or ability to go for the kill, exist, but the general idea remains.

 

Example B:

1. P1 has "Pendulum Call" and a card to discard for it. 
2. P1 activates it, searches "Insight Magician" and "Dragonpit Magician".
3. (Optional) P1 sets both as scales.

So what's this one's issue?

 

It's the wording of Pendulum Call. Pendulum Call prevents "Magician" pendulums that are/will be/etc. on the field after it is activated... from being destroyed. As such, Insight can't perform its RotA function, which means you've set a mediocre scale set that leaves you only able to summon Peasant/Inferior (Lv. 6, WIND, Scale 2), Performapal Monkeyboard (Lv. 6, Scale 1, only works with other high scale Ppals), or LEvel 7s. And Monkeyboard won't happen like that, as you would have removed it at that point.

 

So, you limit what you can do with your turn by doing this. Sure, there are times searching Insight can work, especially if you lack T1 plays, but the idea is still the same. You make a mediocre scale, though not unplayable, and if you summon Peasant to get back what you discarded, when applicable... You just played the best low scale as a monster. If you havem ultiples, sure, but it's a bit greedy to do in a lot of cases.

 

This one's not as bad as A, but still a common misplay. Not sure if it's because people don't read (probably is) or they just think that it's a good idea to leave it out for a turn for Castel/Ignister to remove.

 

But yeah, discuss common misplays, what's wrong with them and why, etc.

[~Faytl~]

The number of times I have played people who don't seem to realize both players can use Chicken Race's effect... Or even just using Race to draw instead of killing it IMMEDIATELY (which, since I'm playing DDD, they really should because that generates so much advantage and protects me from Covenant damage). I guess maybe it's due to how many field spells have come out these last few years that only effect the controller (Switchyard, Sky Arc, etc), but it's still ridiculous. Read the damn cards, yo. You don't have to use MST on Race :V

 

I have also seen people completely forget to use Apoqliphort Tower's send a monster effect. Yeah.

[Hexanort]

people just keep blindly reviving thousand blade at first damage they take, even though the opposing field still has monster that can kill it and they cant protect it, instead you know, saving it for the last attack so you can keep it for next R4 play....

[Progenitor]

People don't understand the concept of non-auto chain linking.

 

When multiple trigger effects activate simultaneously on your side of the field, you get to choose the order of activation before your opponent get's a chance to respond

 

How is this useful?  When your opponent gets a chance to respond with their own card effect, and if the conditions of that card applies to both/all trigger effects you just activated, that card only applies to the effect directly 1 chain link lower.

 

For example, I make Trishula using Mecha Phantom Beast Olion, MPB Megaraptor, and Speedroid Taketonborg.  On Trishula's summon, 2 trigger effects on my side of the field activate; Olion and Trish.  My opponent chains Divine Wrath.  There are two ways this plays out, depending on how you declare links 1 and 2.

1. You declare Olion as Link 1 and Trish as Link 2.  Divine Wrath negates Trish and destroys it, wasting a 3 monster investment.  But hey, at least you get a token.
2. You declare Trish as Link 1 and Olion Link 2.  Divine Wrath negates Olion, and allows Trish freedom to resolve.

Essentially, by playing multiple effects with the same trigger timing in one chain, you can force any direct response your opponent has (i.e. a card the specifically activates on that trigger)  to miss timing.

 

Many people don't realize this, or try to correct me when I do this.  Granted it's a bit situational (for example in my given example if my opponent had an effect veiler or something, it doesn't matter what order I chain them in; trish is getting negated), but it's incredibly useful in those situations.

[byak]

People don't understand the concept of non-auto chain linking.

 

When multiple trigger effects activate simultaneously on your side of the field, you get to choose the order of activation before your opponent get's a chance to respond

 

How is this useful?  When your opponent gets a chance to respond with their own card effect, and if the conditions of that card applies to both/all trigger effects you just activated, that card only applies to the effect directly 1 chain link lower.

 

For example, I make Trishula using Mecha Phantom Beast Olion, MPB Megaraptor, and Speedroid Taketonborg.  On Trishula's summon, 2 trigger effects on my side of the field activate; Olion and Trish.  My opponent chains Divine Wrath.  There are two ways this plays out, depending on how you declare links 1 and 2.

1. You declare Olion as Link 1 and Trish as Link 2.  Divine Wrath negates Trish and destroys it, wasting a 3 monster investment.  But hey, at least you get a token.
2. You declare Trish as Link 1 and Olion Link 2.  Divine Wrath negates Olion, and allows Trish freedom to resolve.

Essentially, by playing multiple effects with the same trigger timing in one chain, you can force any direct response your opponent has (i.e. a card the specifically activates on that trigger)  to miss timing.

 

Many people don't realize this, or try to correct me when I do this.  Granted it's a bit situational (for example in my given example if my opponent had an effect veiler or something, it doesn't matter what order I chain them in; trish is getting negated), but it's incredibly useful in those situations.

 

O-Lion's effect is always chain link 1 here, because even though they are both optional effects, its timing was met before Trishula's effect. It's similar to tributing Sangan for a Monarch. Sangan is always first on the chain because its timing was met earlier (tributing is a step before tribute summoning, along with using synchro materials before synchro summoning).

[Progenitor]

O-Lion's effect is always chain link 1 here, because even though they are both optional effects, its timing was met before Trishula's effect. It's similar to tributing Sangan for a Monarch. Sangan is always first on the chain because its timing was met earlier (tributing is a step before tribute summoning, along with using synchro materials before synchro summoning).

 

Are you sure about that?  Cuz that's not how it works on Devpro and other YGO Sims.  Turning off Auto Chain order allows you to pick which effect activates on which link in a scenario where 2 trigger effects would simultaneously start a chain.

 

What you said does make sense, but since they are within the same chain they should then have the same timing, and therefore the order in which they are placed in the chain shouldn't have consequence (as far as I know).  However common practice does usually set the monster in the grave as link 1.  I'm pretty sure that's not a rule though; simply how it's done usually to streamline the duel process.

[Hexanort]

Are you sure about that?  Cuz that's not how it works on Devpro and other YGO Sims.  Turning off Auto Chain order allows you to pick which effect activates on which link in a scenario where 2 trigger effects would simultaneously start a chain.

 

What you said does make sense, but since they are within the same chain they should then have the same timing, and therefore the order in which they are placed in the chain shouldn't have consequence (as far as I know).  However common practice does usually set the monster in the grave as link 1.  I'm pretty sure that's not a rule though; simply how it's done usually to streamline the duel process.

 

the ruling differs in OCG/TCG, in TCG the chain order based on which trigger first, while in OCG if the effects has same priority (mandatory/optional), you can choose the order for the chain link, devpro and ygopro use OCG rulings i think

[byak]

the ruling differs in OCG/TCG, in TCG the chain order based on which trigger first, while in OCG if the effects has same priority (mandatory/optional), you can choose the order for the chain link, devpro and ygopro use OCG rulings i think

 

They do. On ygopro, if you send Burning Abyss monsters for Fire Lake's cost then Traveler them back in the same chain, the Burning Abyss monsters trigger their effects even though they're on the field after the chain resolves.

 

Also, here's the precedent for chain order (by UDE): http://web.archive.org/web/20071101063820/http:/entertainment.upperdeck.com/COMMUNITY/forums/thread/859168.aspx

[vla1ne]

people that waste resources or improperly use them. facing somebody who stops something that they could have survived and wastes their resources for a sub par move always makes me smile. for example, wasting a hand trap like fader or veiler on something that has no chance of killing or even harming you.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

When I discard Maxx "C" and they just keep going, to try to OTK. That plan is just dumb against Nekroz.

[Slinky]

They do. On ygopro, if you send Burning Abyss monsters for Fire Lake's cost then Traveler them back in the same chain, the Burning Abyss monsters trigger their effects even though they're on the field after the chain resolves.

 

Also, here's the precedent for chain order (by UDE): http://web.archive.org/web/20071101063820/http:/entertainment.upperdeck.com/COMMUNITY/forums/thread/859168.aspx

 

 

 

 

reiterating this. If you detach a BA with Dante, and mill another, the one you detached must activate first due to various timing. its detach, THEN mill.

 

whereas Shaddoll Fusion sends and summons simulatenously, so Segoc normally applies allowing you to put Construct on the link whereever you'd like.

 

As mentioned above, the first scenario will never apply in the OCG. Same with MST. vs. CotH issue. I can't even count how many games I lost on ygopro/devpro because I MST'd into a CotH that revived a Scepter or a Tellarknight and they still got the effects.

[UltimateIRS]

whereas Shaddoll Fusion sends and summons simulatenously, so Segoc normally applies allowing you to put Construct on the link whereever you'd like.

 

Actually, Shaddoll Fusion sends, then Summons.

[宇佐見 蓮子@C94]

When I discard Maxx "C" and they just keep going, to try to OTK. That plan is just dumb against Nekroz.

This is like reverse destiny draw. Instead of hoping you draw into some asspull card, you hope your opponent doesnt draw into valk.