Chaos Emperor Dragon (Newest Errata)

[Yuuji Kazami]

To accept the opinions of a group is fine...but where is their credibility? That they're senior admins? That they are high ranked on DN? I'm high ranked on DN, does that mean I'm good at theory? Does having good technical play translate to good theory? Senior admins know all the rulings, how does that prove they're good? They got a good understanding of obscure scenarios, OK, how about card interactions? I'm not going to belittle your group, but your "evidence" has a lot of holes and is too vague to be solid. Unless you tell me your friend is Patrick Hoban, Alexander Lysgathe, or whatever, I could care less if their high-ranked because they can be easily a nobody like me.

 

Meanwhile, FIVE formats of actual theory and gameplay from HUNDREDS of people struggling to find the optimal build to WIN and MAKE MONEY is much more solid than some, arguably casual, group talking about cards and theories that give them no actual benefit.

 

 

---------

 

As for the statement that TCG players won't have knowledge of CED, that is a FACT. Unless TCG players decide to move over to OCG to test, which they won't, because most don't even know what the OCG IS, you're pulling exceptions as evidence that is hardly solid.

...I never said I based my opinion on that of Admins. My opinion is my own, but the majority of them share my opinion, not that they influenced me to make my opinion.

 

I can keep explaining all I want, but tbh, we're getting nowhere with this.

[Blake]

"Only pointing out the flaws" 

 

As for your previous statements, you've been pretty much stating that the TCG players with a newly errata'ed card would have no experience at all. Also, highlighting "If at all" proves nothing. It really doesn't.

 

Also, even if you have no strong opinion on it, I feel as if you're literally trying to contradict everything I say, just like Winter. Plus, even if you don't happen to know some of the Senior Admins from DN yourself, some of them have played the OCG and know the OCG rulings, but decided to stay with the TCG for whatever reason. 

 

Again, I'll just repeat the only thing I've been saying all this time. I believe CED should return to the TCG at 1, and that a decent amount of the Admins that I know on DN agree with me because of the new cards that have been released as of late. Anything else you want to continue to make a scene about?

You claimed that I said they had no quality experience. I said they had little to none, if at all. That's not the same thing.

 

Furthermore, if it's not legal in the TCG format, there is no TCG experience with it. That's just how it is, because it has never existed in a TCG format, and any TCG player's viewpoint of it will be skewed due to no active means to assess it.

 

Winter's not trying to contradict you. He's trying to show evidence, and then you say that you trust other sources that you know or are Admins/higher ranked on DN. He has been supplying pure hard data, where you're going with the opinions of others. You aren't some victim, so don't try to play it. Again, your diversion tactics are lacking.

 

And the point is that the fact that they're admins means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It is a title that means they know rulings NOT anything to do with the quality of their playingtheory/etc. Citing an Admin is no different from citing a random.

 

It's not making a scene, it's trying to get you to get your head out of the sand, as to better the section as a whole.

[Yuuji Kazami]

Congrats, you have now moved from no evidence to working on developing anecdotal evidence.

 

Anything you and your buddies come up with in Trad is still 99% likely to be less rigorous relative to 5 formats worth of Tournament level gameplay

Again, I can see you attempt to look good by trying to prove me wrong?

 

I never said that TCG testing with the errata'ed CED would make them more experienced than the OCG players. I only said that a TCG can still get decent experience with the card, not that they'd be better.

[IQuitDolphin]

This thread has gotten out of hand, and there is little discussion at this point. Let's get it back on track.

 

Forget that shitfest. IT. NEVER. HAPPENED. OK? GOOOOOD.

[Althemia]

If I see any more of this stupid argument bullshit you guys keep getting involved in, you're getting banned. This is the second instance in like 2-3 days, funk sake.

[Yuuji Kazami]

You claimed that I said they had no quality experience. I said they had little to none, if at all. That's not the same thing.

 

Furthermore, if it's not legal in the TCG format, there is no TCG experience with it. That's just how it is, because it has never existed in a TCG format, and any TCG player's viewpoint of it will be skewed due to no active means to assess it.

 

Winter's not trying to contradict you. He's trying to show evidence, and then you say that you trust other sources that you know or are Admins/higher ranked on DN. He has been supplying pure hard data, where you're going with the opinions of others. You aren't some victim, so don't try to play it. Again, your diversion tactics are lacking.

 

And the point is that the fact that they're admins means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It is a title that means they know rulings NOT anything to do with the quality of their playingtheory/etc. Citing an Admin is no different from citing a random.

 

It's not making a scene, it's trying to get you to get your head out of the sand, as to better the section as a whole.

Little to none and decent experience are still not the same level.

 

You can still test it out as a TCG player to find combos. It's just more restricted than the OCG because of the TCG banlist as well as the ruling to an extent.

 

What am I trying to divert, can I ask? I never said anything about not trusting other sources, but I only stated my opinion. To be honest, you three have completely turned the thread into something else, because all I did was ask for thoughts on the card, and then stated my opinion.

 

Also, I can't exactly be a victim if i don't feel victimized. I just can't understand why you're making a scene about my opinion, and then trying so hard to prove me wrong. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

This thread has gotten out of hand, and there is little discussion at this point. Let's get it back on track.

 

Forget that shitfest. IT. NEVER. HAPPENED. OK? GOOOOOD.

Yes, thank you. I think either it or Awakening is going to have to give tbh.

 

It's really not hard to set up 2 darks and 2 lights in the grave, esp with Dark Matter. And Awakening can fill one of those 4 slots anyway.

 

One card Harbingers or DMD's aren't healthy.

 

Awakening seems a better hit cause of serving the dual purpose of hitting Blue Eyes, but CED to 1 would make sense as well.

 

Reason why I don't see CED getting the hit is 

 

1) Shooshy promo 2) Felgrand Heavy Variant is currently "inferior" based on tops 

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

When does felgrand hit TCG?

[Blake]

When does felgrand hit TCG?

Mid summer?

 

not exactly sure, but around there

[IQuitDolphin]

When does felgrand hit TCG?

 

Some time in the June, I believe.

 

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Melody might be the one to get hit. It has the most blanket benefit for prospective meta decks incoming from OCG, while CED is only going to make a big splash in a solid deck, which I don't think any chaos deck is remotely competitive atm (Kozmo doesn't count as BLS isn't even run in the first place.)

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

When does felgrand hit TCG?

July 15th - Felgrand

 

99% sure CED - April 15th

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

So, this in the Kozmo mirror basically says "let's see who draws tincan or farmgirl first" doesn't it?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

So, this in the Kozmo mirror basically says "let's see who draws tincan or farmgirl first" doesn't it?

Only if you're kinda dumb. It's a Gagaga gunman that can burn for 1500-2100 normally. The main use I see it rank 8, the secondary use I see it being able to out field of too many ships and hopefully burning greedy Kozmo players for game. 

 

Going into a top deck war voluntarily when a farmgirl could end you seems kinda desp/stupid

 

Well atleast that's how Chaos Dolls used it back in Jan 2015. You'd do the play of Construct send Wyvern, and get CED by bby Chaos Dragons or BLS, then just hold that over your opponent's head. Solemn Strike is a new variable from it's glory days in OCG tho.

 

It used to be just veiler or bust.

 

But the current OCG ruling is that Striking CED means you're free to continue to do w/e you want for the rest of the turn

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Comparing it to Cowboy really isn't fair, since it doesn't actually fill the niche cowboy did of playing in m2 to finish them off, unless you had somehow reached m2 without activating anything, and that doesn't seem reliable enough to run the card for.

[IQuitDolphin]

CED makes Harbinger access easier, but Kozmo want to have the best turn 1 hand possible, since they are literally a somewhat more resilient Monarch, and you simply don't CED turn 1. I don't see CED even remotely happening in there when other options like System Down are available. Also, 1500-2100 burn doesn't matter in a deck that aims to OTK as fast as possible.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Comparing it to Cowboy really isn't fair, since it doesn't actually fill the niche cowboy did of playing in m2 to finish them off, unless you had somehow reached m2 without activating anything, and that doesn't seem reliable enough to run the card for.

Agreed, think it does a lot more than Cowboy. It's removal+Burn and a big as mofo for used resources. Post Tin Can a def 1 of in Kozmo IMO

 

 As for mp2, swing 3k, then burn for 1.5? 4500 on it's own is like DSF pre-errata right?

 

It's the Envoy of the END either you combo wombo with something like Brave or you use it as the curtain closer

 

Different Idea: Denko CED never quite caught on OCG side, but it might work here.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Agreed, think it does a lot more than Cowboy. It's removal+Burn and a big as mofo for used resources. Post Tin Can a def 1 of in Kozmo IMO

 

 As for mp2, swing 3k, then burn for 1.5? 4500 on it's own is like DSF pre-errata right?

 

It's the Envoy of the END either you combo wombo with something like Brave or you use it as the curtain closer

 

Different Idea: Denko CED never quite caught on OCG side, but it might work here.

Saying it is like DSF pre errata doesn't make much sense since you could actually do stuff before summoning DSF.

 

I'm not saying it is bad, but it really doesn't feel amazing.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

CED makes Harbinger access easier, but Kozmo want to have the best turn 1 hand possible, since they are literally a somewhat more resilient Monarch, and you simply don't CED turn 1. I don't see CED even remotely happening in there when other options like System Down are available. Also, 1500-2100 burn doesn't matter in a deck that aims to OTK as fast as possible.

Tin Can? Instant Chaos Support right?

 

Kozmo's OTK potential might not be as good if TCG copies the OCG hits on reasoning and Tele.

 

Honestly think all three of the Chaos Bosses have a spot in Kozmo. BLS for damage, DMoC for EP-Tele. CED for the finale. 

 

But, it's been a while since I played Kozmo and could very well be wrong on that

[Spinny]

If construct was limited then arkbrave shaddolls with this would be amusing but oh well.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

If construct was limited then arkbrave shaddolls with this would be amusing but oh well.

 

Too soon man, too soon.

 

Dolls don't even need Grands. Shaddoll Fusion+BLS is game on it's own

 

 

Saying it is like DSF pre errata doesn't make much sense since you could actually do stuff before summoning DSF.

 

I'm not saying it is bad, but it really doesn't feel amazing.

 

 

Yeah, I guess it was the closest parallel I could think of? Easier to summon than DSF, but the same swing first, launch second mentality. It's prime strike bait though. That's something

[IQuitDolphin]

Tin Can? Instant Chaos Support right?

 

Kozmo's OTK potential might not be as good if TCG copies the OCG hits on reasoning and Tele.

 

Honestly think all three of the Chaos Bosses have a spot in Kozmo. BLS for damage, DMoC for EP-Tele. CED for the finale. 

 

But, it's been a while since I played Kozmo and could very well be wrong on that

 

Kozmo can brick like no other, it's the reason Instant Fusion doesn't work so well because you need to have something in the Grave to make use of it w/ Norden, and a CDI rush wastes too many resources.

 

Kozmo don't run Reasoning, durrr. Etele might hurt somewhat, but honestly, TCG already found a way around it with Brilliant Fusion, which I am starting to understand despite my rough experience with it.

 

The Chaos Bosses are FINE, but Kozmo want to either protect the castle or rush the OTK. BLS does nothing turn 1, which makes protect the wall variants that much more meh when you do draw BLS, same for CED. Reasoning is bad since everyone calls 8 so DmoC is also out of the question. And BLS and CED are arguably "winmoar" in a deck that needs to wait a turn to mill all their stuff that will win the game in a less efficient fashion than vanilla Kozmo plays.

[Spinny]

 

Too soon man, too soon.

 

Dolls don't even need Grands. Shaddoll Fusion+BLS is game on it's own

You use BEWDs tho since the stones are good for fodder and are tuners.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

You use BEWDs tho since the stones are good for fodder and are tuners.

Why though? Doll Fusion, send Squamata+Wyvern, banish CED, send beast. BLS, Construct. Send Falco. At that point one more light is 8800 damage. And just end on Harbinger if the push fails. Blue Eyes don't need or want Dolls even with con. They have so many foolish burials atm

Kozmo can brick like no other, it's the reason Instant Fusion doesn't work so well because you need to have something in the Grave to make use of it w/ Norden, and a CDI rush wastes too many resources.

 

Kozmo don't run Reasoning, durrr. Etele might hurt somewhat, but honestly, TCG already found a way around it with Brilliant Fusion, which I am starting to understand despite my rough experience with it.

 

The Chaos Bosses are FINE, but Kozmo want to either protect the castle or rush the OTK. BLS does nothing turn 1, which makes protect the wall variants that much more meh when you do draw BLS, same for CED. Reasoning is bad since everyone calls 8 so DmoC is also out of the question. And BLS and CED are arguably "winmoar" in a deck that needs to wait a turn to mill all their stuff that will win the game in a less efficient fashion than vanilla Kozmo plays.

Knew I was outdated as funk. With Tele to 1 (let's assume) would Trade In be worth it? Makes the ceiling plays with CoTH better at the very least?

 

Also yeah, DMoC call 8 would be a jabroni

[Spinny]

Why though? Doll Fusion, send Squamata+Wyvern, banish CED, send beast. BLS, Construct. Send Falco. At that point one more light is 8800 damage. And just end on Harbinger if the push fails. Blue Eyes don't need or want Dolls even with con. They have so many foolish burials atm

Knew I was outdated as f***. With Tele to 1 (let's assume) would Trade In be worth it? Makes the ceiling plays with CoTH better at the very least?

 

Also yeah, DMoC call 8 would be a b****

Oh yeah wyvern is a thing....

Construct to 3 guys! Not broken at all!

[IQuitDolphin]

Knew I was outdated as f***. With Tele to 1 (let's assume) would Trade In be worth it? Makes the ceiling plays with CoTH better at the very least?

 

Also yeah, DMoC call 8 would be a b****

 

Trade-In does not increase the ceiling. Tincan does the ditching for you, and if you want to discard a Dark Destroyer that's, honestly, dumb as f*** since the whole point of the deck is to summon Tincan and get that bugger into your hand. Trade-In's only "good" target is DMoC, and I sure as hell don't want to use CotH on it when I can use it on a Sliprider to get rid of backrow, which is a big issue when going for OTKs. Not to mention, and here's the point I'm trying to make, Kozmo aren't Dragons that run a shitton of disposable Level 8s. Two-card combos should be kept at a minimal in Kozmo unless it helps you win games (and a draw 2 reliant on drawing both DMoC and Trade-In is not good enough).