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Tinkerer's Devos


Tinkerer

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Hello, fine peoples!

 

I realize that while I spend lots of time on here, I have done very little in terms of witnessing in faith.  Further, I realize that I don't spend as much time in the Bible as I would like.  Posting this is an answer to both.  It gives me an opportunity to share my own thoughts and what sticks out to me while I read the Word.

 

Some may be super in-depth, some may not be.  Some I may put background detail, some I may not.  Getting into the discipline of reading and sharing is one that might take a while to mature, but I know it will be of some encouragement to myself and I hope that it will be something that touches others.  Format-wise, every post is going to be its own thing but each one will probably have a specific verse that sticks out to me.  I may connect or allude to another day's post, I may not.  I'll probably stick to going through a book at a time but I may jump around a bit.  So, ultimately, I go wherever I'm being led at a time.

 

One final thing: This is not an apologetics thread.  I will try to answer questions if one is genuinely curious, but if one is asking questions for the sake of trying to tear down or hit on the values of Christianity, this isn't the thread to do so; go make a thread in Debates.

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Heh. I've normally kept my personal life (i.e. faith) out of my online persona, yet it's things like this that put me to shame, and yet also inspire me. Good for you to have the courage and dedication to be willing to do something like this! I've never been one for sharing really IRL outside of your basic bible studies, so...keen to see what comes out of this.

 

Depending on what you post, I might throw in some of my own thoughts, if that's alright. Might make for some some nice discussion.

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1 Peter 3
 
Last time I'd read, I'd looked through chapter 2 of 1st Peter, so this is a bit of a continuation than me jumping to a random place in the Bible.  Kinda awkward to start here though, if I may admit, considering the first portion could be considered a bit of a contentious section that people have against the church.
 
There are a few portions that stuck out to me in this chapter, but I think the one that hit me most was 3:15 - "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;" (NKJV)

It, very simply, speaks to where I am in regards to sharing my faith and happens to be an excellent place to bring forward this new devo sharing style.  Though it says "give a defense", implying a coming under attack, I think sharing outright in this manner should also be done in "meekness and fear".  This last point was a little confusing though.  I understand the reason for meekness: it is a sense of humility, putting oneself under the authority of God and His Word.  The "fear" part was the part that was confusing.  In looking up commentaries to understand this point, this "fear" is one that is a healthy one: a fear towards God.  Commentaries agree that this fear point is one that speaks to the fear of saying falsehoods, miscommunicating God's Word, or adding in immoral or incorrect statements to the Truth; ultimately, it is the fear of overstepping boundaries.

 

Now, in Acts, the early church prayed for boldness to share the Gospel.  This should not be a contradiction to speaking "with meekness and fear".  Though contrary appearance-wise, the people were praying for boldness in the act of going out and engaging with others (amidst persecution no less), not in how they were presenting the truth of the Word itself.  I pray that I can take both sides to heart: having the boldness to speak and engage, but have a meekness and fear in such a way that I may communicate the Word with all accuracy.

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Good for you to have the courage and dedication to be willing to do something like this! I've never been one for sharing really IRL.

It's a shame that it take COURAGE/etc. to talk about something like faith (whatever it maybe) online. That other people owho are online can severely bully/fearmongering people into silence because they can.

 

I should also mention the hypocrisy of people like this as well. it's NOT OK for you (yes you) to talk about religion (whatever it may be) but it's TOTALLY OK for them to mention what ever religion they are into if they so happen to bring up.

 

THIS IS NOT OK. everyone should be able to speak their mind on fair and even ground.

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What place are you trying to tackle faith from? The Bible is filled with many metrics, as I am trying to accomplish the same thing with my own faith and spirituality, creating a relationship with Christ and God.

 

I started with just going to church, and forming a more conditional relationship where I would recognize God and I would recognize the power that he has to bring people together, building a community. But that hasn't led to more than an recognition of the power that an ideology has, regardless of the title and position that people give that ideology to.

I am still seeing God and Jesus as an icon, an identity that people believe in which has impact due and exists due to the place that he has in people's lives. I still don't know the place that he has in my life, which I would love to get your input in.

What denomination are your following and how is that helping you create a relationship with God, personally, rather than community-based? I'll ask more to help both I and you along with this, but I figured this is a good place to start.

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It's a shame that it take COURAGE/etc. to talk about something like faith (whatever it maybe) online. That other people owho are online can severely bully/fearmongering people into silence because they can.

 

I should also mention the hypocrisy of people like this as well. it's NOT OK for you (yes you) to talk about religion (whatever it may be) but it's TOTALLY OK for them to mention what ever religion they are into if they so happen to bring up.

 

THIS IS NOT OK. everyone should be able to speak their mind on fair and even ground.

 

I don't think it was a point that one may be bullied online so much as the fact that sometimes it just is difficult to speak on matters of faith in general.  These are my words though; I don't want to put them in Dova's mouth if that's not what he meant.

 

 

What place are you trying to tackle faith from? The Bible is filled with many metrics, as I am trying to accomplish the same thing with my own faith and spirituality, creating a relationship with Christ and God.

 

I started with just going to church, and forming a more conditional relationship where I would recognize God and I would recognize the power that he has to bring people together, building a community. But that hasn't led to more than an recognition of the power that an ideology has, regardless of the title and position that people give that ideology to.

I am still seeing God and Jesus as an icon, an identity that people believe in which has impact due and exists due to the place that he has in people's lives. I still don't know the place that he has in my life, which I would love to get your input in.

 

What denomination are your following and how is that helping you create a relationship with God, personally, rather than community-based? I'll ask more to help both I and you along with this, but I figured this is a good place to start.

 

I am coming from a point of having/strengthening my relationship with God.  I recognize that there is a complete truth to the Bible that isn't simply moral.  There is also historical, scientific and spiritual accuracy (in terms of promises that have been applicable to my own life).  From my understanding, taking something so true in every tested aspect and tossing it away rather than taking the un-testable things as true simply isn't wise.

 

I know that God has helped me in several points of my life including times where I had considered suicide.  It isn't only having a sense of purpose (which God gives us), but it is an unearthly peace and joy that I have had when I move forward in doing that which He wills.  Of course, being a forgetful human, and one who still tends to put up barriers when people get too close, I often find myself leaving God's will (at which point I become a bit more calloused, cold, and unyielding - points that hurt not only myself, but people I care about).  In sum: for me, drawing close to God gives me a true means of drawing to others with a love that wants to see them gain the beautiful goodness that God provides.

 

I have attended Calvary churches for a majority of my life.  They don't exactly label themselves, but consider themselves either nondenominational or interdenominational.  The big thing about Calvaries is that they teach the Bible "verse-by-verse, chapter-by-chapter" in order to expound on the full truth of the text instead of taking a message and trying to fit verses into it.  I think it is a very strong way of doing things as it means one can't shy away from "hard but true" statements.  Personally, this has helped me grow my relationship because, well, I know the truth of what God is saying.  A teaching of, say, a prosperity gospel gives a wrong understanding about God and gives an idea of God being a big genie or something.  Can you truly have a relationship with someone you don't really know?

 

Thanks for your questions.  It always is good to go back to the basics sometimes and truly ask why you believe what you believe.

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Romans 8:31-39
 
I went to a group devotion time and this was the section of scripture we looked through.  There's a lot in these few verses, but I think the one that stuck out to me personally was verse 34: "Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us."

 

Romans is a letter by Paul to the believers in Rome.  It touches on many things, but this section is one of great personal encouragement.  Firstly, "Who is he who condemns?"  This question is a follow-up in the same vein as other questions in this passage.  The answer, like the ones to the other questions, is no one.  No one can condemn my faith and make it not righteous before God.  Even if I were to become unrighteous (if I fall in sin), the second half of the verse gives me hope: "It is Christ...who also makes intercession for us."  Not only does it imply that Christ Himself does not condemn me, but that even if I do fall, He continually makes intercession, bringing me back into the fold of God.  It is a beautiful picture of God's grace where I, a sinner unable to do anything good on my own, am eternally held and protected, in God's eternal embrace.

 

Thank you Lord for your grace.  Thank you that you don't condemn, but love us and want us to spend eternity with you.  Help me to show your love to others and continue to change me from the inside out.  Amen.

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Romans 8:31-39

 

I went to a group devotion time and this was the section of scripture we looked through.  There's a lot in these few verses, but I think the one that stuck out to me personally was verse 34: "Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us."

 

Romans is a letter by Paul to the believers in Rome.  It touches on many things, but this section is one of great personal encouragement.  Firstly, "Who is he who condemns?"  This question is a follow-up in the same vein as other questions in this passage.  The answer, like the ones to the other questions, is no one.  No one can condemn my faith and make it not righteous before God.  Even if I were to become unrighteous (if I fall in sin), the second half of the verse gives me hope: "It is Christ...who also makes intercession for us."  Not only does it imply that Christ Himself does not condemn me, but that even if I do fall, He continually makes intercession, bringing me back into the fold of God.  It is a beautiful picture of God's grace where I, a sinner unable to do anything good on my own, am eternally held and protected, in God's eternal embrace.

 

Thank you Lord for your grace.  Thank you that you don't condemn, but love us and want us to spend eternity with you.  Help me to show your love to others and continue to change me from the inside out.  Amen.

Mind if I hijack this thread to some degree? I am moved by your position, but would want you to explore different places and as you are allowing me to do so with your readings. It is comforting to see a church, much like my own, to practice the truths of the passages through the recognition of the context and the place that they hold, from the time they were written to how we can take the truths and insight from them to expand upon the faith and connection to God.

 

The passage that you went over is much like one that I went over recently in church, but more related to the Original Testament and how we can bridge ourselves to truly live in God's eyes, rather than be a spectator of the practices. A big message of my church is: We are not just spectators, we are participants. In order to be participants, we must live in the eyes of the Lord most glorious and becoming, that not just a validation of faith, but also our acts in faith help to be messenger of Jesus.

 

The passage that I wanted to mention is from Exodus 19:3-6, "Then Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain and said, “This is what you are to say to the descendants of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel: ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

 

For those who don't know, Exodus is the story of how Moses found God and became a follower of the Lord, leading his people out of slavery from Egypt to relearning a new way to live and a God to truly recognize as their lord. This is part of Exodus is where the Egyptians passed through the Red Sea and the Egyptian army was tossed aside. The Isrealites came to Mount Sinai where they proclaimed their faith through their mouths, and chose God to be their one and only. God, to them, bestowed the commandments.

 

What the message from this passage was set into four sections, they each could question and try to draw from: 1) Why are we in this relationship with God? 2) What are his intentions/what are our intentions? 3) How is he going be more than a savior? 4) What does he want me to do?

 

With mentioning how Jesus will not condemn and make intercession, what are you going to do as a believer to keep his name holy and have God and his son be more than just a savior? As a child of his, what do you do to pursue a relationship with him and consider him your Lord? If you have any other place to take from these questions, I can bring in my own understanding and the absolute truth that can be taken from the passage.

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There is undeniably a sense of action in the Bible.  That sense of action is, in part, why I went forward in making this thread.  The primary verse that people go to for this is probably James 2:17, often shortly quoted as "faith without works is dead".  In context, it basically touches on the fruit of the Spirit (love) which should be displayed in a believer's life.  In the verses before, there's an example given where if someone comes to you with need and you have the means to fulfill that need, but you don't provide, can you really say that you are living a Christian life when your "faith" isn't yielding fruit?


1 Peter 4-5
 
There were a couple portions of these to chapters that spoke to me, though a good majority of it did not.  Chapter 4 held a continuation of what Peter had been speaking about in the end of chapter 3 (God's grace established via Christ's suffering).  The latter half the chapter spoke as an encouragement of our sufferings in Christ.  Though a very important thing to keep in mind (and one that fits in perfectly with who the letter was being sent to as referenced in 1 Peter 1:1), I find myself personally on a bit of a mountaintop with Christ.  I am not undergoing bad persecution, or even having overly bad days.
 
Instead, I found encouragement in continuing to minister to people here from 1 Peter 4:10 "As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God."  The context of the verse doesn't necessarily show "gift" as being a reference to talents or spiritual gifts, but either way, it still applies.  Notable in the verse is the beginning "As each one has received a gift...".  I must remember that my capacity isn't just mine; it is a gift that God has blessed me with.  As such, the second half of the verse "minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God", is simply a natural outpouring of this.  If I have a talent for teaching, there is no benefit in keeping it to myself.  In fact, by not using what I have been given, it is sinful; an affront and a showing of bad servanthood.  I want to please God.  Using my talents is a beautiful way of giving Him glory while also showing love to my neighbor in whatever way my God-given gift benefits them.
 

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I really like this thread. I've become a lot more sympathetic towards religion as of late, and even though I don't hold views similar to any of the religions I grew up around, it's nice seeing the perspective of someone who does without being really annoying or self-righteous about it. I've come to realize the value of having faith in something, be it an idea or a person. My own faith has vastly improved my life in many ways, even though it might seem a bit strange to someone who doesn't have as firm a grasp on how faith really works as I now do. It absolutely holds the same value to me as any other religion would, and its guidance resonates with who I really am more than any of the alternatives I've seen.

 

I still have some Very Strong Opinions on the veracity of the events in the bible, but I also no longer think that you need to tether your ideas to a literal truth for them to be valid. The point of religion, to me, isn't about whether it's true or not. It's just supposed to offer guidance, and to help lift you up when you've fallen so you don't falter in the face of adversity. Even if it's all fiction, I don't think that would undermine the value it holds.

 

I have nothing else to add. I just wanted to add my own perspective on this and offer my support.

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Man, to go from a spiritual high to just completely feeling dry today...  It's even Sunday which makes it all the worse.  Fortunately, God's grace and mercies are new every morning.  Today might not have been my best, but I pray that God forgive the wrongs that I have committed, those wrongs due to omission, and pray that He continue to work in me and change me and help me to desire more of Him.
 
2 Peter 1
 
I want to strive to wake up early in the morning and do devotions, that way I can meditate on the word for the rest of the day.  Unfortunately, I am not quite that diligent yet and so find that there are some days like today where I am reading God's Word after a point where I could have benefited from it.  This seems to be one of those cases.
 
The Word is convicting.  I've already mentioned that my day wasn't the best.  I'd been tempted on multiple fronts all day from taking action on my anger to giving in to my lusts.  Though I know that God will forgive, sometimes it is much harder to get out of the bubble of self-pity.  In reading the beginning of 2 Peter, I am reminded of the end of 1 Peter in which he wrote: "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.  Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world." (1 Peter 5:8-9)  It is a message that I should have taken more to heart, not knowing how soon my mountaintop experience might have been stripped away.  In reading 2 Peter, this theme of sin and keeping away from it (though less as a "don't do these sins", and more as a "do this so you won't sin") continued.  It is a message of diligence and one that cut me to the core.  I was neglectful.  I rested on my laurels instead of continuing to run with a greater prize in mind.

 

Though this lesson will probably come up again, I truly hope that I will be able to internalize and remember this for the future.

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2 Peter 2
 
Man, this chapter was certainly harsh.  The entirety of the chapter is in two parts, God being able to separate the righteous from the unrighteous, and just how bad the unrighteous is.  Reading this, my mind recalls the fact that God is not just all loving, but He is also a judging God.  He has the right to judge us because He knows us, to the point where we can't even say we know ourselves.  God sees far and beyond what we have and what we do, but He sees our motivations for what we do.  One thing that hit me here was the counting of Lot as being righteous (2 Peter 2:7-9).  Reading that which Lot had done in Genesis: choosing land based on what he saw (doing things in the flesh), dwelling among morally abhorrent people, delaying when he was told to leave the city, yet here he was counted among the righteous.  It is amazing.
 
In reading and learning the Bible, I am putting upon myself a greater responsibility.  The end of this chapter implies this truth.  "For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them." (2 Peter 2:21).  Though God does not accept ignorance as an excuse (would you not be arrested if you murdered someone and tried to pass it off as "I didn't know there was a law against killing"?), there is a harsher judgment for those who consciously know the truth and reject it.  In such a way, my sinful actions are all the more painful because I should know better, yet wallowing in ignorance (not that that is even possible), is no answer.  The only answer that truly satisfies is pursuing righteous with all diligence.

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2 Peter 3
 
A shorter chapter with a various batch of messages and exhortations.  Though, admittedly, I did not get as much out of it as I may have wanted, I was able to meditate on certain portions of the scriptures and know how they apply to my life.
 
Firstly, verse 3-4: "scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation."  This has a dual point.  First, that those who claim this are scoffers, representing sinful, unrepentant people.  However, I know that sometimes in of myself I have had this sense of feeling as though I got away with something as I hadn't been actively punished for it.  In that way, I am like the scoffers described here.  It was a bit of an eye-opener seeing this negative connotation yet recognizing it within myself.  The second point of this verse was to provide a contrast.  "These people say this, but I with authority given by God say..." is essentially what this verse says.  He was making a point that this thought process is foolish, and I (even though sometimes I speak in this scoffing way) recognize it as foolishness.  God is eternal, yet He will not strive with the evil of mankind forever.  He will wipe everything clean and make things new.  We cannot make a mistake of thinking that God does not care for our little thoughts and actions or think that just because we have lived every day of our lives that we will thus live forever.  There are a lot of detrimental little thoughts that could fall under this banner of scoffing before God.  Yet they are not truth.

 

Lord God, help me to be able to recognize the truth in your Word and help me to live out this truth daily.  I pray that I can feel the freedom that You provide and walk in such a way that others can see You in my life.  Thank you God for this day and all days you have given and may still give.

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For the next month or so, I'm gonna try to go through the Proverbs.  I want to try to do a bit of a format, so for each chapter I want to see if I can answer the following five questions so I'd get a deeper understanding of what the Word is saying.

  • What themes do you see in the chapter?
  • What key words are in the chapter?
  • Is there a key verse?  (as a sub question) Why do you believe there is or is not a key verse?
  • What are the related cross-references?
  • What is your Personal Application from this chapter?

Running through these questions will give me a bit of a clearer understanding of the Proverbs and help me to engage with the text a bit more than taking single Proverbs and discussing them without context.  Also, I think that giving me something to think about while reading will help me to focus on what each individual part is saying rather than reading and sometimes not taking in what the Word actually says.

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Proverbs 1

 

Themes: Warnings against evil company. Seek wisdom now; do not turn against it.

 

Key Words: (ESV) Wisdom/understand (which is likely to be a key word in most of the Proverbs), Simple (said thrice in the chapter, it is only once given without a negative connotation), reproof (only given twice, but both in the negative portion of verses 20-33).

 

Key Verse: 1:7 - “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.” I think this is the key verse because it sums up not only the introduction section of Proverbs 1 (verses 1-7), but it shows the two contrasting sides that the book of Proverbs often uses to great effect (an example of which is shown between verses 20-33).

 

Cross-references: A number of the verses in this proverb point toward other sections of Proverbs. For example: “righteous, justice, and equity” are listed in verse 3, but is also seen in Proverbs 2:9. One of the few cross-references that could be considered one that spans both Testaments is verse 8 whose premise is seen back in Exodus 20 (Commandment 5: Honor your father and mother), and then again in Ephesians 6:1-2 which touches on the commandment also. Another notable cross-reference comes from verse 19 which may have inspired Paul’s well-known (and often misquoted) line in 1 Timothy: “money is a root of all kinds of evils...”

 

Personal Application: Verses 20-33 speaks about wisdom in terms that sound familiar to how other portions of the Bible describe God. The fact that wisdom is often taken to be synonymous with God in action and character gives me a greater means of pulling a personal application from it. What touched me specifically was verse 33: “But whoever listens to me will dwell safely, And will be secure, without fear of evil."” It is a verse that comes as a contrast in how those who don’t seek wisdom (or God) will end. It is a promise of peace and security in trouble. Practically, this is a promise that I can take as a surety. In the midst of trouble, I can know that I can dwell safely in God’s arms. There is no trouble that befalls me that God hasn’t allowed into my life.

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Proverbs 2

Themes: The benefits of wisdom.

Key Words: (ESV) deliver(ing), walk/ways/path (these each are used in the latter half of the chapter and all are pretty much synonymous in context), treasure (only said twice in the beginning, but it is a pretty distinct word to use even if it was used in different grammatical terms)

Key Verse: 2:6 - “For the Lord gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;” I think this is a key verse for the chapter because it comes in at the end of a section building up with a lot of “if” statements and the rest of the chapter follows with what comes from this wisdom. It is literally the key that meets the understanding of wisdom from an outside perspective to the internal; what is to be gained in wisdom.

Cross-references: There are a few distinct ones. The key verse, verse 6, calls back to Job 32:8 in attributing the source of wisdom to God. Verse 4 talks of treasures; this also has a reference to Job (3:21), but it is more personally reminiscent to the parable of the treasure in the field as written in Matthew. Verse 14 is probably one referenced in Romans 1:32 when describing those who both delight in doing wicked things and also approve it when others do so (though a good portion of this section is one that such could be referencing).

Personal Application: Unlike the last chapter which had a great focus on the negative before turning to hope, this chapter was positive until the latter half before making a final contrast between the righteous and the wicked. What this instilled in me was a renewed sense of understanding from where my righteousness comes, and where it leads. This chapter’s talking about the great benefits of wisdom makes me come to desire it more and it also puts me in a position of walking the way God wants me to. It is a sense of responsibility that I have to take up. Practically, this means doing what the first four verses say and aim to be open to His calling.

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