A little story

[-Griffin]

Once upon a time, there was a little boy called Yugioh. Yugioh was a happy boy who had lots of fun.

One day, however, a big chainsaw-weilding nutter called "Field Nukers" cut off his leg.

He was rushed to Konami Hospital, where they put a special brand "Starlight" bandaid on the arm stump.

However, it was stupid because Field Nukers was still cutting limbs off and he still didn't have a leg.

The End.

 

IMO, Starlight was a really bad fix to the problem of field nukers which should have been banned/never made. It's a typical example of Konami being terrible at design, I really hope it goes to 0 along with the problem cards that accompany it. It's often played around, effectively making it a massive game-deciding lucksack if you pull it off, and you can lose from bad luck of it being entirely bad. It sums up bad design by being so luck based, countering specific cards, giving such a huge swing, and only being playable because of bad design in the first place. I used to be neutral towards it, but in practice I quickly found how horrible it was.

 

(And before people call this a QQ topic, I haven't lost to it in ages - more often winning because of it, but all those wins are shallow because it was random luck from a bad card.)

[Thomas★Zero]

Starlight road still is a good way of getting a synchro dragon out for your drago-equites

 

also cool story bro

[Azuh]

Nuking card effects shouldn't have even be made in the first place

[-Griffin]

Nuking card effects shouldn't have even be made in the first place

 

Starlight was a really bad fix to the problem of field nukers which should have been banned/never made.

 

Agreed.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Nuking card effects shouldn't have even be made in the first place

 

This but also keep in mind Starlight Road hurts balanced stuff like Lightning Vortex and Mobius too.

[byak]

Now this is the story all about how

My opponent got flipped turned upside down

Now if you'd like to take a minute just sit right there

I'll tell you how my opponent got owned by dat Road

 

In west Philadelphia, born and raised

Playing card games, is how I spent most of my days

Chillin' out, maxin', relaxin' all cool

And all playing some Sabers outside of the school

When a couple of stackers, who were up to no good

Dropped 2 JDs down in on the second turn

I flipped one little Starlight and they all got scared, they said

You must be stackin dem Starlights cuz you just a noob

 

I drew my next card and when it came near

Turns out it was Rescue Cat and they were like "you f***ing queer"

If anything I could say that this Cat was rare

But I thought hah man, now take this, Double Faultroll right there

 

I finished up that duel around turn 7 or 8

And yelled to the stackers, "hey man, thanks for the cards!"

Looked at my prizes, 'cause I finally owned

3 copies of Dark End Dragon because of Starlight Road

[metalflygon08]

Or the older Nukers should have a big price, or a big drawback (like you can't SS afterwards)

[Umbra]

It adds diversity to the game by making you think twice before you drop your big nukes. Or your medium-sized nukes.

[Manjoume Thunder]

It also promotes mindless overextension.

[Azuh]

This but also keep in mind Starlight Road hurts balanced stuff like Lightning Vortex and Mobius too.

 

Yeah I know that. I never said anything about Starlight. I only said stuff about nuke effects

 

If Starlight didn't summon Starfag Dragon afterwards it would of been a balanced and good card

[.Leo]

Now this is the story all about how

My opponent got flipped turned upside down

Now if you'd like to take a minute just sit right there

I'll tell you how my opponent got owned by dat Road

 

In west Philadelphia, born and raised

Playing card games, is how I spent most of my days

Chillin' out, maxin', relaxin' all cool

And all playing some Sabers outside of the school

When a couple of stackers, who were up to no good

Dropped 2 JDs down in on the second turn

I flipped one little Starlight and they all got scared, they said

You must be stackin dem Starlights cuz you just a noob

 

I drew my next card and when it came near

Turns out it was Rescue Cat and they were like "you f***ing queer"

If anything I could say that this Cat was rare

But I thought hah man, now take this, Double Faultroll right there

 

I finished up that duel around turn 7 or 8

And yelled to the stackers, "hey man, thanks for the cards!"

Looked at my prizes, 'cause I finally owned

3 copies of Dark End Dragon because of Starlight Road

 

You. Lucky. Kid.

 

I want one Dark End Dragon?

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

It adds diversity to the game by making you think twice before you drop your big nukes. Or your medium-sized nukes.

 

It does indeed but countering banworthy cards with other banworthy cards doesn't do it for me. Starlight Road also hurts balanced mass removal as already mentioned and that doesn't really deserve to be made less viable because of this card.

 

Yeah I know that. I never said anything about Starlight. I only said stuff about nuke effects

 

If Starlight didn't summon Starfag Dragon afterwards it would of been a balanced and good card

 

I was just adding onto what you said about Starlight but I still think the card would be questionable even if it didn't Summon Stardust Dragon afterwards. Because of the way it is worded, it screams "promotes overextension" which is bad play. It also comes at no real cost provided it meets the activation requirements and in response to cards that are meant to punish overextension like Heavy Storm and Lightning Vortex, it essentially says f*** you to them. The part that allows it to summon Stardust really breaks it though even if it can only do its My Body as a Shield with legs and 2500 ATK job only once.

[Flame Dragon]

Nuking card effects shouldn't have even be made in the first place

Not all nukes are made equal, so they are ok provided they are done right. Problem is most aren't.

 

If Starlight didn't summon Starfag Dragon afterwards it would of been a balanced and good card

Exactly. And since Stardust should be banned in it's own right, this can stay at 3.

 

I was just adding onto what you said about Starlight but I still think the card would be questionable even if it didn't Summon Stardust Dragon afterwards. Because of the way it is worded, it screams "promotes overextension" which is bad play. It also comes at no real cost provided it meets the activation requirements and in response to cards that are meant to punish overextension like Heavy Storm and Lightning Vortex, it essentially says f*** you to them. The part that allows it to summon Stardust really breaks it though even if it can only do its My Body as a Shield with legs and 2500 ATK job only once.

Then we should ban all negaters cause things like Dark Bribe do the same thing.

[-Griffin]

Exactly. And since Stardust should be banned in it's own right, this can stay at 3.

 

 

Then we should ban all negaters cause things like Dark Bribe do the same thing.

 

So something that hurts viable cards and promotes mindless overextension while providing nothing should be @3?

 

And Bribe won't protect against JD and other monster-nukes, this protects against both. Setting a half-protected field isn't nearly as good since you're still able to lose advantage if it's wiped, (JD would be replaced by Mobius or something on a 'good list', no doubt).

[Manjoume Thunder]

Dark Bribe is a -1. This is a +1.

 

Stupid comparison.

[Wizarus]

It also promotes mindless overextension.

 

This. Ever since Starlight Road came out, I've been able to set up to 3 cards on the field with relative impunity. It is bad for the game, but I won't deny that I have enjoyed that.

[Flame Dragon]

So something that hurts viable cards and promotes mindless overextension while providing nothing should be @3?

Many cards allow for overextension. Again, Dark Bribe stops almost every card this stop and more and their is nothing wrong it. My Body as a Shield stop a similar amount also. It is in the very nature of counter cards to allow you to overextend so are you proposing that most of those shouldn't be at 3?

 

Dark Bribe is a -1. This is a +1.

 

Stupid comparison.

If Stardust is gone, it's a +0 and that is the only time this would be able to stay legal. The fact that Bribe stops A LOT more cards then this makes up for it being a -1.

 

And it's not. The argument is this is bad for the game because it lets you overextend. My counter argument is Bribe does the same thing. The fact that Bribe is a -1 means nothing when you add in that it stops a lot more and since your likely to be trying to push for game when your overextending so a -1 is meaningless.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Not all nukes are made equal, so they are ok provided they are done right. Problem is most aren't. Exactly. And since Stardust should be banned in it's own right, this can stay at 3.Then we should ban all negaters cause things like Dark Bribe do the same thing.

 

A recurring My Body as a Shield with legs and 2500 ATK is indeed banworthy. Dark Bribe is a -1 and only stops Spells and Traps, Solemn Judgment costs you half your Life Points which is a rather steep cost despite what it can do, archetype-specific Solemn Judgments like Infernity Barrier are limited to specific Decks and weaker ones like Magic Jammer and Divine Wrath are more specialized yet still have a cost associated with them. Having 2 or so cards on the field while your opponent plays something that can destroy them all isn't much of a cost.

 

Dark Bribe is a -1. This is a +1. Stupid comparison.

 

Indeed although Stardust is banworthy anyway, I still see a problem with Starlight Road.

 

Many cards allow for overextension. Again, Dark Bribe stops almost every card this stop and more and their is nothing wrong it. My Body as a Shield stop a similar amount also. It is in the very nature of counter card to allow you to overextend so are you proposing that most of those shouldn't be at 3?

 

Dark Bribe and the like have already been addressed. My Body as a Shield only stops stuff that destroys monsters and has a 1500 Life Point Cost which is almost 1/5 of your Life Points. Seems reasonable enough. I'm not sure how I could word the following but Starlight Road is like a My Body as a Shield as long as the card it is stopping destroys 2 or more cards and such a situation doesn't really require skill to achieve. Not only that, Starlight Road has no cost unlike the aforementioned My Body as a Shield or a drawback like Dark Bribe. Even more specialized negation like Divine Wrath has some sort of cost. Well most of it does but stuff that doesn't like Pulling the Rug or Black Horn of Heaven is very limited in what it can do.

 

Or maybe this is all moot, Starlight Road isn't banworthy and I just hate Starlight Road because it hurts mass removal regardless of whether or not it is banworthy.

[Flame Dragon]

Dark Bribe is a -1 and only stops Spells and Traps

Road only stop mass removal cards, a very small number of cards. On a good ban list, the main ones I can think of would amount to Lightning Vortex, Mirror Force, and TT. And on the same list Road will basicly only stop Spells and Traps too.

 

Solemn Judgment costs you half your Life Points which is a rather steep cost despite what it can do

While the cost can be a large one, it can also be a very small one. And being able to stop any major play your opponent might try to make is very good effect. And remember so long as your Life Points don't hit 0 it doesn't matter how low they get.

 

Having 2 or so cards on the field while your opponent plays something that can destroy them all isn't much of a cost.

It is though. Unless I'm forgetting some keys card it's not like a huge number of cards are mass removal. Even less when around when you talk about a good ban list.

 

My Body as a Shield only stops stuff that destroys monsters and has a 1500 Life Point Cost which is almost 1/5 of your Life Points. Seems reasonable enough.

How many back row mass removal cards would we have on a good ban list. Not counting archetype-specific ones I'd say around 3 that might be useable. And, even if it becomes easier to make a kill after you loss something like 1500 Life Points, you need to remember by paying that cost you probably not only just kept yourself from lossing a greater amount you still have your monsters.

 

I'm not sure how I could word the following but Starlight Road is like a My Body as a Shield as long as the card it is stopping destroys 2 or more cards and such a situation doesn't really require skill to achieve.

It doesn't require much skill to use mass removal cards like Lightning Vortex. And how can it use any skill if it's totally dependent on what cards your opponent may or may not play.

 

Not only that, Starlight Road has no cost unlike the aforementioned My Body as a Shield or a drawback like Dark Bribe. Even more specialized negation like Divine Wrath has some sort of cost.

Again, the cost of Body is mute since when you use it you go from lossing x Life Points (more often then not, more then 1500) + your monster to just lossing 1500 Life Points. Bribes drawback is fine when you think of how many cards it stops. I won't call Wrath specialized seeing as how effects are very key to the game and being able to stop any of them is a major plus.

 

Well most of it does but stuff that doesn't like Pulling the Rug or Black Horn of Heaven is very limited in what it can do.

How is killing any monster limited?. And your acting like Starlight's use isn't limited.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Road only stop mass removal cards, a very small number of cards. On a good ban list, the main ones I can think of would amount to Lightning Vortex, Mirror Force, and TT. And on the same list Road will basicly only stop Spells and Traps too.

 

 

While the cost can be a large one, it can also be a very small one. And being able to stop any major play your opponent might try to make is very good effect. And remember so long as your Life Points don't hit 0 it doesn't matter how low they get.

 

 

It is though. Unless I'm forgetting some keys card it's lot like a huge number of cards are mass removal. Even less when around when you talk about a good ban list.

 

 

How many back row mass removal cards would we have on a good ban list. Not counting archetype-specific ones I'd say around 3 that might be useable. And, even if it becomes easier to make a kill after you loss something like 1500 Life Points, you need to remember by paying that cost you probably not only just kept yourself from lossing a greater amount you still have your monsters.

 

 

It doesn't require much skill to use mass removal cards like Lightning Vortex. And how can it use any skill if it's totally dependent on what cards your opponent may or may not play.

 

 

Again, the cost of Body is mute since when you use it you go from lossing x Life Points (more often then not, more then 1500) + your monster to just lossing 1500 Life Points. Bribes drawback is fine when you think of how many cards it stops. I won't call Wrath specialized seeing as how effects are very key to the game and being able to stop any of them is a major plus.

 

 

How is killing any monster limited?. And your acting like Starlight's use isn't limited.

 

Some of those points caught my attention. Namely the fact that discounting themed mass removal, there isn't much mass removal available. I decided to do a few test matches with both Decks playing under the good format (you know, banworthy stuff banned, stuff that deserves to be at 3, at 3). Stardust Dragon is what makes Starlight Road broken and not Starlight Road that makes Starlight Road broken. In the absence of Stardust Dragon, Starlight Road at best is only good for stopping mass removal without a cost, otherwise it is Side Deck material against some Decks that rely on themed mass removal ie. LS has Celestia, Blackwings have Icarus Attack and so on. It isn't as bad for the game as I thought it would be as long as Stardust is banned.

[Dr. Cakey]

^ I could have told you that.

 

Now this is the story all about how

My opponent got flipped turned upside down

Now if you'd like to take a minute just sit right there

I'll tell you how my opponent got owned by dat Road

 

In west Philadelphia' date=' born and raised

Playing card games, is how I spent most of my days

Chillin' out, maxin', relaxin' all cool

And all playing some Sabers outside of the school

When a couple of stackers, who were up to no good

Dropped 2 JDs down in on the second turn

I flipped one little Starlight and they all got scared, they said

You must be stackin dem Starlights cuz you just a noob

 

I drew my next card and when it came near

Turns out it was Rescue Cat and they were like "you f***ing queer"

If anything I could say that this Cat was rare

But I thought hah man, now take this, Double Faultroll right there

 

I finished up that duel around turn 7 or 8

And yelled to the stackers, "hey man, thanks for the cards!"

Looked at my prizes, 'cause I finally owned

3 copies of Dark End Dragon because of Starlight Road[/quote']

Sig'd.

[-Berserker-]

CED doesn't destroy. Let's put it at 3 to counter Starlight...

[Konami Human Resources]

CED doesn't destroy. Let's put it at 3 to counter Starlight...

 

Dear Yugioh CardMaker Forum member "Saikano".

 

After carefully reviewing the posts on this forum, the Konami Human Resources Team has decided that your reasoning is adeuqete for helping us to structure the September 2010 Yugioh Card Game ™ Banlist, along with future cards and banlists, and we will be looking to hire you in the future to promote the use of such understanding in the Konami Yugioh Trading Card Game ™.

 

To other Members reading this and or looking to inquire, we have conversed with the Lead Card Game designers in Japan who have agreed that this stroke of reasoning is good for the game so they are making last-minute changes to include it for the next format.

 

Yours sincerely, the Konami Human Resources Department Manager.

[metalflygon08]

BEST USE OF A DOUBLE ACCOUNT EVER.

[-Berserker-]

Yes! I influence the banlist! Now let's think some changes. Just wait. This will be the best format you have ever seen. Metalzoa will be meta!