~British Soul~ Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 i lol'd when i read this: [quote name='some douche']lol the problem is, if you use your only Trunade and you don't OTK that turn you'll be back at square one because your opponent can just reset their backrow, possibly screwing you over derp[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Lightray Daedalus- Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 [quote name='Ｄ・モバホン' timestamp='1308592778' post='5297794'] First I'd quit playing. Second, I'd go and try to learn Vanguard. [/quote] Advice: Go and learn a better game than Vanguard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 [quote name='Ｔｈｅ ｂｌａｚｉｎｇ ＭＡＲＳ' timestamp='1308592809' post='5297795'] No. Trunade lets them set their backrow down and continue hiding behind it. I want it back, even only for 1 format. [/quote] Trunade does the job fine =/ You still got past their Solemn or w/e, and Should have gain some advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 [quote name='Ｔｈｅ ｂｌａｚｉｎｇ ＭＡＲＳ' timestamp='1308592258' post='5297775'] Well I don't, why the Neg? I'm sick of people setting 4 cards facedown and derping like mad while they hide behind their backrow. We need cards that Punish overextention. Dark Hole is one of them. [/quote] Heavy Storm being banned was a step in the right direction. When Heavy Storm was alive, a lot of decks had NO chance of being competitive, usually because they needed non-chainable S/Ts or Continuous cards to work. And the mere threat of this card, while effective for limiting the backrow, did way more harm than good. We have plenty of options for destroying the backrow, like teching a Breaker or something. Heavy promoted OTKs too much, and could easily net a large advantage. As stated already, monsters are much easier to replenish than S/Ts, and so mass S/T removal is OPed by default. Trunade sets players back a pace, but it doesn't remove their options entirely. If you're that afraid of Traps, run Decree or Seven Tools. If you dont want to lose your own Trap lineup, then you barely have an argument: You too can hide behind a backrow, you just built your deck not to, without compensating for the fact that the opponent can. And don't you run Samurai? God, Shi En doesn't care about backrows. If it'll remove Shi En, negate it. If it'll destroy, destroy a different Samurai, if it's Mirror Force...well, the odds of you wasting Shi En's negation and running into Force is pretty slim. If you couldn't drop Shi En, then you've got bad luck or you're using the deck wrong. Besides, Starlight Road used to be teched purely so you could overextend without fear of Heavy Storm, and then screw over your opponent afterwards. Since its banning, Starlight Road, heralded as a broken card, is barely used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 I hate playing against decks that go "set 4, scoop?". Heavy Storm made players think about how not to lose to Storm (ie only setting the backrows necessary), thus promoting more skill. But then cards like Starlight Road exist which basically mess up Heavy Storm by being poorly designed, and there are decks that will just go Heavy Storm derp derp summon 5 monsters gg sir, which makes Heavy Storm a bannable card, when in a healthy metagame, it's perfectly fine. Also to the people wanting MST at three, play Dust Tornado, it does the same thing and has more utility, although it does lose to Seven Tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 The importance of MST is that you can play it the turn you draw it. It is a valid criticism that Heavy Storm does better when your opponent sets 4 backrow, and MST does worse, since you have a lower chance of hitting something good. What we need is something that hits multiple cards. I don't know, maybe something like... Medium-Sized Storm Discard 1 card. Destroy up to 2 (facedown?) Spell/Trap Cards your opponent controls. EDIT: Since when does "set 4" = scoop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 [quote name='機皇神龍アステリスク' timestamp='1308601414' post='5298289'] Medium-Sized Storm Discard 1 card. Destroy up to 2 (facedown?) Spell/Trap Cards your opponent controls. [/quote] Because Lightning Vortex does so well, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Fascist Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 [quote name='ＴＨＥ ＧＯＤ ＯＦ ＯＳＩＲＩＳ' timestamp='1308597003' post='5298071'] I hate playing against decks that go "set 4, scoop?". [u]Heavy Storm made players think about how not to lose to Storm (ie only setting the backrows necessary), thus promoting more skill.[/u] But then cards like Starlight Road exist which basically mess up Heavy Storm by being poorly designed, and there are decks that will just go Heavy Storm derp derp summon 5 monsters gg sir, which makes Heavy Storm a bannable card, when in a healthy metagame, it's perfectly fine. Also to the people wanting MST at three, play Dust Tornado, it does the same thing and has more utility, although it does lose to Seven Tools. [/quote] Well said. [quote] Heavy Storm being banned was a step in the right direction. When Heavy Storm was alive, a lot of decks had NO chance of being competitive, usually because they needed non-chainable S/Ts or Continuous cards to work. And the mere threat of this card, while effective for limiting the backrow, did way more harm than good. We have plenty of options for destroying the backrow, like teching a Breaker or something.[/quote] Explain. Exactly what deck is GG'd when Stormed? Dragunites run 3 Dragon Ravine. Like (Urmm... Who is who?) said, playing against Herpderp set 4 summon 1 end decks isn't much fun. Also, It'll teach people to be more careful with resources. We have enough Negation cards that are viable in most any deck to try it out at 1 for a format, if all goes well, It can stay, if not, It can go back to 0. Konami needs to take risks with the banlist in order to make the game more fun. Some horrendously broken cards are ignored, and some get banned. We need to change the stance to that if a card is causing significant problems in the meta, it should go and have it's detention time. Heavy Storm coming back is long overdue, especially with many decks relying more on derpderpfieldspells and things like Gateway. [quote] EDIT: Since when does "set 4" = scoop? [/quote] They set 2 warnings a Mirror force and Judgment. Good luck getting past that in 1 turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 [quote name='Ｔｈｅ ｂｌａｚｉｎｇ ＭＡＲＳ' timestamp='1308602002' post='5298325'] They set 2 warnings a Mirror force and Judgment. Good luck getting past that in 1 turn. [/quote] Giant Trunade. Do s***. MST/Dust Tornado next turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Fascist Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 [quote name='Miror B.' timestamp='1308602124' post='5298336'] Giant Trunade. Do s***. MST/Dust Tornado next turn. [/quote] They are a retard and Judgment Trunade. Wat nao? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 [quote name='Ｔｈｅ ｂｌａｚｉｎｇ ＭＡＲＳ' timestamp='1308602002' post='5298325'] They set 2 warnings a Mirror force and Judgment. Good luck getting past that in 1 turn. [/quote] That's good for me. Once that lineup is gone, I'll have eliminated almost all of their staple Traps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeezus Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 This card should be at 1 for obvious reasons :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 [quote name='ＴＨＥ ＳＵＮ ＯＦ ＧＯＤ ＤＲＡＧＯＮ' timestamp='1308605349' post='5298561'] obvious reasons [/quote] go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeezus Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 1. Encourages conservative play 2. Weakens the factor of 'oh I drew the nuts, set all the backrow I need, go' 3. Promoted more skill in the game, because it caused players to think a few moves ahead, creating the 'what if' mentality. Of course there are the decks that would benefit from Storm being at 1 because it improves the consistency of otks but overall it improves the game state by reducing the effect that going first has on the game, which is the worst thing about the game right now. Edit: wow I just regurgitated what byakk said earlier. Edit 2: people who want storm to stay banned are butthurt bad players that kept losing all their backrows because they can't play conservatively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Those are very poor arguements. The cons in this situation greatly outweigh the pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeezus Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Elaborate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 [quote name='ＴＨＥ ＳＵＮ ＯＦ ＧＯＤ ＤＲＡＧＯＮ' timestamp='1308606521' post='5298635'] 1. Encourages conservative play 2. Weakens the factor of 'oh I drew the nuts, set all the backrow I need, go' 3. Promoted more skill in the game, because it caused players to think a few moves ahead, creating the 'what if' mentality. [/quote] 1. Gorz encourages conservate play 2. Gorz weakens the factor of 'oh I drew the nuts, but I have Gorz, so its okay' 3. Gorz Promotes more skill in the game, because it caused players to play around it, creating the 'what if' mentality. AND YET ITS STILL BAD FOR THE GAME!!! NO WAY!!! ITT: Harpies Feather Duster should be @1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 For what I've seen. [i]"Encouraging competitive play"[/i] is a poor excuse for [i]"I want back my overpowered and skill-less card that destroys opponent's backrow by itself"[/i] Heavy Storm banned is a good thing because it opens up options. Non-chainables had no chance before. With this change made, you can actually focus on the variety of effects rather than the bluff of Heavy Storm being top Decked. People setting 4+ backrow is a poor excuse for this card too. What's bad about having to actually interact with your opponent's effects instead of blowing out their stuff? Last time I checked that should be a fundamental part of the game. There are enough backrow removal effects out to replace it. Wishing for it to come back is akin to whinnying about not being able to easily get rid of your opponent's defenses and OTK consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeezus Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 [quote name='Canadian' timestamp='1308608944' post='5298744'] 1. Gorz encourages conservate play 2. Gorz weakens the factor of 'oh I drew the nuts, but I have Gorz, so its okay' 3. Gorz Promotes more skill in the game, because it caused players to play around it, creating the 'what if' mentality. AND YET ITS STILL BAD FOR THE GAME!!! NO WAY!!! ITT: Harpies Feather Duster should be @1 [/quote] Yeah you're so right, that's completely the same thing. I tip my hat to you oh wise and knowledgable one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='ＴＨＥ ＳＵＮ ＯＦ ＧＯＤ ＤＲＡＧＯＮ' timestamp='1308606521' post='5298635'] 1. Encourages conservative play 2. Weakens the factor of 'oh I drew the nuts, set all the backrow I need, go' 3. Promoted more skill in the game, because it caused players to think a few moves ahead, creating the 'what if' mentality. [/quote] As opposed to the benefits of a banned Heavy Storm, which are: [quote name='Dr. Cakey'] 1. Encourages conservative play (keeps players from using all their cards to push for game without risk) 2. Weakens the factor of 'oh I drew god, play heavy, go, gg' 3. Promoted more skill in the game, because it caused players to think about what their opponent may have set, creating the 'what if' mentality. [/quote] Sorreh mang, "encourages conservative play" doesn't give you a free pass to be right anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Jesse Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='機皇神龍アステリスク' timestamp='1308617148' post='5299023'] As opposed to the benefits of a banned Heavy Storm, which are: Sorreh mang, "encourages conservative play" doesn't give you a free pass to be right anymore. [/quote] Open Rai-Oh Set Warning, Dprison, other jank gg, r2? Either put Trunade/MST @ 3 or this @ 1, imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='Nightmare Zarkus' timestamp='1308618789' post='5299082'] Open Rai-Oh Set Warning, Dprison, other jank gg, r2? Either put Trunade/MST @ 3 or this @ 1, imo [/quote] Open One for One, another Psychic. gg, r2? Open Trunade, Coelacanth, Star Blaster. gg, r2? [s]Open Power Bond, Gear Golem, 2 Ancient Gears gg, r2? Open five pieces of Exodia gg, r2?[/s] Open Kageki, Kagemusha, Warning, Magatama gg, r2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='Ｔｈｅ ｂｌａｚｉｎｇ ＭＡＲＳ' timestamp='1308602002' post='5298325'] Explain. Exactly what deck is GG'd when Stormed? Dragunites run 3 Dragon Ravine. Like (Urmm... Who is who?) said, playing against Herpderp set 4 summon 1 end decks isn't much fun. Also, It'll teach people to be more careful with resources. We have enough Negation cards that are viable in most any deck to try it out at 1 for a format, if all goes well, It can stay, if not, It can go back to 0. Konami needs to take risks with the banlist in order to make the game more fun. Some horrendously broken cards are ignored, and some get banned. We need to change the stance to that if a card is causing significant problems in the meta, it should go and have it's detention time. Heavy Storm coming back is long overdue, especially with many decks relying more on derpderpfieldspells and things like Gateway. [/quote] You misunderstood. I never said decks are automatically defeated by Storm (except Uria decks, maybe). I said that it prevented a lot of decks from even having a chance because they need their S/Ts to live longer, or use Continuous Effects. Crystal Beasts, jokes aside, have a heavy reliance on their crystallized monsters and the few S/Ts they might use in their decks to protect their resources from battle. Without Storm, a CB player's opponent may need to think about their S/T removal more, and this gives CBs a fighting chance. Worms are extremely trap-heavy. Anti-meta uses a mix of a disruptive S/T lineup and monster effects. Any sort of control or stall deck needs their S/Ts to survive, or be destroyed in limited quantities. Storm has its pros and cons, but ultimately, I feel generic mass S/T removal, while heavily desired, is too powerful to allow to all decks, especially those who may already specialize in OTKs and swarms. By not having Storm, those decks have to slow down to pick off S/Ts, lucksack Trunade, or use Trap hate. As for the latter part of the statement, Konami does take some risks. Reborn and Dark Hole were Limited and Storm was banned. It worked out fantastically, as far as I can tell. Last list was less groundbreaking, but that doesn't mean they don't experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Jesse Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='機皇神龍アステリスク' timestamp='1308635382' post='5299713'] Open One for One, another Psychic. gg, r2? Open Trunade, Coelacanth, Star Blaster. gg, r2? [s]Open Power Bond, Gear Golem, 2 Ancient Gears gg, r2? Open five pieces of Exodia gg, r2?[/s] Open Kageki, Kagemusha, Warning, Magatama gg, r2? [/quote] All of which are problems that need to be dealt with, but have nothing to do with Heavy Storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcher boyz Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Players shouldn't be forced to be boring. Keep it at 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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