Judgment Dragon

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

 

Gateway being hit actually me think of this and if it's next to go to zero. I know, I know, Six Samurai and LS are different but does it change the fact Gateway and JD are pretty busted? 

 

Anyway, do you think it's possible for this card to go to zero on the next list? Or not? Discuss. 

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

Whether or not it is possible for this to become enough of a problem to get hit, it still should be hit.

 

Being a sucky archetype that is based on milling the right stuff isn't an excuse for having 3k bodies than come out of nowhere and blow up the rest of the field. This thing wins games and doesn't afraid of much.

[Lonk]

This card sucks so much that it *ucks.  Sacky bosses should all be thrown in the lake of burning sulphur, and this guy is arguably one of the worst ones.  He comes out of nowhere and wrecks fecal matter.  Then, Summon 1-2 more of them and declare "lolgg".

[Toffee.]

Sworns have too much dependance on this card.
Really, if it didn't exist, the archetype wouldn't even be anything in the first place.

[Canadian]

I remember when Necro Gardna was hit over this.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

I remember when Necro Gardna was hit over this.

Yeah, though this did take a hit for some time. A very short time.

[mido9]

Sworns have too much dependance on this card.
Really, if it didn't exist, the archetype wouldn't even be anything in the first place.

Well, they can still use the other high level lots of lights dragon boss monster lightray diabolos right? It's not nearly as good but hey.

[玄魔の王]

Well, they can still use the other high level lots of lights dragon boss monster lightray diabolos right? It's not nearly as good but hey.

But see, those are at least FAIR. They're free beaters, but that's all they are: beaters. This thing is right up there with CED in terms of raw advantage, and should go to -1.

[B3sTR]

Lightsworns are a bit risky to play, but it there is always risk in this game. Thinking about how powerful are Lightsworns, milling is nothing for it. About this Judgment Dragon, it's just a pawn. With Xyz there is no problem with playing Lightsworns.

[玄魔の王]

Lightsworns are a bit risky to play, but it there is always risk in this game. Thinking about how powerful are Lightsworns, milling is nothing for it. About this Judgment Dragon, it's just a pawn. With Xyz there is no problem with playing Lightsworns.

Judgment Dragon is no pawn, and Lightsworn was a problem before Xyz ever existed.

[Sora1499]

[quote name="B3sTR" post="6279369" timestamp="1380486604"]Lightsworns are a bit risky to play, but it there is always risk in this game. Thinking about how powerful are Lightsworns, milling is nothing for it. About this Judgment Dragon, it's just a pawn. With Xyz there is no problem with playing Lightsworns.[/quote] ^nigga who's never played LS

[Blake]

But see, those are at least FAIR. They're free beaters, but that's all they are: beaters. This thing is right up there with CED in terms of raw advantage, and should go to -1.

Just establishing that Lightraysworn is actually a pretty damn degenerate deck, simply because dropping a lot of beaters for no cost isn't fair in the slightest.

[Sora1499]

[quote name="Yuzuru Otonashi" post="6279387" timestamp="1380489556"]Just establishing that Lightraysworn is actually a pretty damn degenerate deck, simply because dropping a lot of beaters for no cost isn't fair in the slightest.[/quote] Chris would beg to differ. Then again, I don't like Chris, so I'd have to agree with you.

[玄魔の王]

Perhaps I'll rephrase: the individual beaters themselves are fair on paper. The deck itself is still stupid, but in comparisson to JD it at least has limitations.

[Wildflame]

With the logic of the latest TCG banlist, this should be at least limited.

[evilfusion]

Lightsworn were always a sacky Deck. They just have such a solid bunch of monsters. Lyla has the S/T destruction. Lumina does revival, allowing for Grave control. Necro Gardna and Plaguespreader WANT to be milled (Glow-Up did too), Ryko pops a card and mills. JD's Summoning Condition is laughably easy to fulfill due to the mass milling. Charge and Solar Recharge do controlled search and Deck thinning, and then Lightsworn also can run stuff like Monster Reincarnation. Then there's Honest...

 

Add stuff like DAD, BLS, or Sephiron-*shot*

 

And you have a Deck that relies a lot on chance, but has a ridiculous number of plays on a whim purely because you can drop big monsters with effects out of nowhere after clearing out your opponent resources. JD is a huge issue because a mere 1000 LP, the same as Chaos Emperor Dragon...blows up everything except itself, all but guaranteeing a swing for 3000+ damage. And you can Summon multiple JDs. You can Summon monsters after using JD and they can also attack.

 

Why did they think this card was okay to release? Lucky/unlucky mills isn't a balancing factor. It's just putting more emphasis on luck. Curiously, this luck allowed it to avoid any sort of REAL limitation or banning, whereas DAD got hit quickly. Sure, Lumina, Gardna, and Charge got hit, as did Plague and Glow-Up, but this card was just wrong to exist.

[Sleepy]

JD is one of those absolutely ridiculous cards Konami makes once in a while.

The type that is so badly designed that puts in doubt wether the game even has a playtesting team at all.

The type of card that makes one wonder how come it even went past the concept area of development at all.

The type that seems like Konami went out of it's way especially to remove any possible limitations against it.

 

The times I got to play against it, there pretty much was no creative angle around it at all back in the day.

Mirror Force? D. Prison? Nah blow up field.

Compulsory? Let's make it have no cost or once per turn clause for it's Summon to make Compulsory pointless.

Your opponent can help a few cards survive the nuke with some epic win? Let it just pay again. It's not like players will be able to afford it often right? hoho.

Mill can be a "drawback"? Sure! Genius!

 

If you are still alive after the direct attack(s): Taking it out by battle? No way! LS always have 3 Honests in hand (at least back in the day).

 

 

JD needed:

A bigger cost more like Demise's.

An actual Summoning cost.

A "once per turn" clause.

A "can't attack this turn if you do" sort of clause.

An "only one JD face-up at a time" clause.

A smaller milling rate.

 

The difference would be huge.

No OTK machine although still a fairly easy field-nuke.

Probably all that together is overkill nowadays, but for the time it was created, it still would have probably been iffy.

 

Why couldn't Konami love Rainbow Dragon half as much?

[Shradow]

Screw this guy, that's all I have to say.

[Tenshou Yoku]

What makes JD so crazy is because it is not very difficult (sometimes, very easy) to fulfill its summoning requirements since the LS's has already milled tons of LSs into the graveyard. Even they accidentally sends some copies into the grave, a Monster Recarination could solve the problem very easily (unless he has bad luck that he mills both all of them into the graveyard).

 

The about the effect, someone might argue that even chalice and stuff could KO this guy easily, but hey, who could always have something like a book of moon or chalice and other different counter-measurements to prevent field dominance and a straight 3000 battle damage? If it ever destroys the whole field, you're almost as good as dead since you can't do anything to stop it. Considering how powerful clearing the field MORE THAN ONCE PER TURN with only the cost 'pay 1000 LP' (Yeah, the card effect does not state that you can only activate the effect once per turn), it is not even noticable.

[Not-so-Radiant Arin]

There is absolutely no justifying this card's existence. Unless you play Lightsworns and then one of two scenarios will happen:

A. You're terrible.

 

B. We'll lynch you.

[Justice Master]

Every time this card gets brought up, I say the same thing and every time I get the same response, so allow me to do something different to prove a point.(NOTE: This is not to offend or act like any others are stupid. It's to make a point.)

 

Ahem, let us take some of the comments here and put them to other cards.

[spoiler='Spoiler for space reasons']

 

Whether or not it is possible for this to become enough of a problem to get hit, it still should be hit.

 

 

Sworns Dark Worlds have too much dependance on this card.
Really, if it didn't exist, the archetype wouldn't even be anything in the first place.

 

This card sucks so much that it *ucks.  Sacky bosses should all be thrown in the lake of burning sulphur, and this guy is arguably one of the worst ones.  He comes out of nowhere and wrecks fecal matter. 

[/spoiler]

 

If you guys really can't see how silly you look to me now, than please just hear me out. Two things decide whether a card is broken or not: Design and Environment. Guess what those two rely on? OTHER CARDS. Let me give you an example. Let's say you're playing an FPS where there's a grenade that blows up anything in a twelve foot radius. OP'd right? Not if everyone has rocket launchers that do the same thing but are reload-able. When JD came out, nothing could answer him. He was the king and nobody liked him, in fact everyone hated him. Which is why they hate him now. It's a petty grudge for a card that has lost it's spot and is now in a good deck. Not okay, not great, just good. And he is the only thing that makes it playable.

So, design wise, he's broken, I can't fight that, but environment is a huge part, too. And what is he facing? Cards that come out as big as he does, faster than he does, and, because they get the leg up, end the game faster than he can. He's been crippled by the newer, better bosses, and play styles. Several staples kill or maim him, many of the new monsters run right over him, he just isn't the dragon he used to be. So, does he deserve to be at three? Maybe not, but is he really doing a huge load of pain there? No, because running an LS deck just to play him is seriously just not worth it anymore. It'll win you a few games, but that's about it.

 

inb4 omgwhywouldyousaythatihateyoujusticeiswrongabouteverything

[Blake]

Every time this card gets brought up, I say the same thing and every time I get the same response, so allow me to do something different to prove a point.(NOTE: This is not to offend or act like any others are stupid. It's to make a point.)

Ahem, let us take some of the comments here and put them to other cards.
[spoiler='Spoiler for space reasons']







[/spoiler]

If you guys really can't see how silly you look to me now, than please just hear me out. Two things decide whether a card is broken or not: Design and Environment. Guess what those two rely on? OTHER CARDS. Let me give you an example. Let's say you're playing an FPS where there's a grenade that blows up anything in a twelve foot radius. OP'd right? Not if everyone has rocket launchers that do the same thing but are reload-able. When JD came out, nothing could answer him. He was the king and nobody liked him, in fact everyone hated him. Which is why they hate him now. It's a petty grudge for a card that has lost it's spot and is now in a good deck. Not okay, not great, just good. And he is the only thing that makes it playable.

So, design wise, he's broken, I can't fight that, but environment is a huge part, too. And what is he facing? Cards that come out as big as he does, faster than he does, and, because they get the leg up, end the game faster than he can. He's been crippled by the newer, better bosses, and play styles. Several staples kill or maim him, many of the new monsters run right over him, he just isn't the dragon he used to be. So, does he deserve to be at three? Maybe not, but is he really doing a huge load of pain there? No, because running an LS deck just to play him is seriously just not worth it anymore. It'll win you a few games, but that's about it.

inb4 omgwhywouldyousaythatihateyoujusticeiswrongabouteverything

And every time you say this, you get told you're a moron, so why do you even try?

You're fucking horrid at card design and determining the health of the game, so would you quit before you wreck the already mediocre at best reputation you have here even further?

[Justice Master]

Yes, these are the responses you deserve to get in defending a trading card.

 

To get off topic for a second, listen to yourself for a second. Seriously, read what you just typed in rage to me about a card. A little, insignificant card. Do you understand how hilarious that is to me? Heck, you didn't even read past the first sentence, I'm pretty sure! You hate this card so much that the second someone defends it, you go into a tantrum! And this happens with EVERYONE. If you cannot see a problem in your card game community, then you need to seriously look at how you just personally attacked me for an opinion over, let me stress this, A CARD.

 

Now, on topic, you didn't even try to invalidate my opinion nor my argument. Sir, you didn't make any progress at all.

[Blake]

I'm not in rage. If you think your comments are worth that, get over yourself. If you think that was a tantrum, you need a reality check. I'm perfectly calm, because I didn't yell at you on r, so please don't play the martyr card lest you look even less intelligent than you already do.

I've broken down your argument for why JD isn't bad for te game repeatedly. Each time you run with your tail between your legs and never reply again. What reason should I waste my time explaining something to someone that has no desire to be proven wrong?

I don't even hate this card like you're implying. It's just a degenerate card that exists for no reason they than to steal sacky wins.

[Eury]

There is absolutely no justifying this card's existence. Unless you play Lightsworns and then one of two scenarios will happen:

A. You're terrible.

 

B. We'll lynch you.

 

Looks like I'm getting lynched because I actually like playing Lightsworns. 

 

However, I think JD should be at 1. 2gud4u. Especially needs to get hit if Michael is amazing.