[TCG] January Banlist

[Toffee.]

House Duston <3 Dont gooooo!

But there's a specific degree that mass-summoning is tolerated.
Rulers: Pure advantage engine and spammers of Rank 7s; Fuck no; Deck was hit at least twice.
Samurais: Pure spam deck; Removal of Gateway now requires you to now manage your resources like you were supposed to.
Rekindling: Gimmicky; Gets out of hand easily under the right conditions.
Hunders: Synergy with cards like Duality; Actually requires you to pay attention.
etc
etc
You get the idea.
Especially with Dustons, since their main cards requires player interaction, and the Summoned monsters aren't exactly game-breaking.

[TFMegamanlan]

Rabbit wouldn't have been broken if we didn't have Laggia and his Xyz partner and the Normal Evilswarm.
In fact, most mass Summoners were made back when they weren't exactly abusable (most not all, the Dragon Rulers and Rescue Cat were badly made when they came out and were stupidly abusable)
Rekindling was actually made when Flamvell was brand new and the rest of the FIRE monsters with 200 DEF were complete trash and were not used so they were o

[Delibirb]

But there's a specific degree that mass-summoning is tolerated.
Rulers: Pure advantage engine and spammers of Rank 7s; Fuck no; Deck was hit at least twice.
Samurais: Pure spam deck; Removal of Gateway now requires you to now manage your resources like you were supposed to.
Rekindling: Gimmicky; Gets out of hand easily under the right conditions.
Hunders: Synergy with cards like Duality; Actually requires you to pay attention.
etc
etc
You get the idea.
Especially with Dustons, since their main cards requires player interaction, and the Summoned monsters aren't exactly game-breaking.

Number 13 and 31 beg to differ a bit. a good 17/20 times, if even that, they hit the field - at least in a Duston deck - is game, and 19/20 is victory sooner or later. (From my tests)

[Toffee.]

Number 13 and 31 beg to differ-

Outside of Hourse...
SO~ HOW ABOUT THAT DUSTON SWARMING!?

[TFMegamanlan]

Rabbit wouldn't have been broken if we didn't have Laggia and his Xyz partner and the Normal Evilswarm.
In fact, most mass Summoners were made back when they weren't exactly abusable (most not all, the Dragon Rulers and Rescue Cat were badly made when they came out and were stupidly abusable)
Rekindling was actually made when Flamvell was brand new and the rest of the FIRE monsters with 200 DEF were complete trash and were not used so it wasn't that broken. The problem was the Card Makers started making all these themes of FIRE Monsters with 200 which broke the card. (I was around when the card came out and most people thought it was junk at that time as it only really supported the Flamvells which at that time were total junk and even a swarm wouldn't be that effective.)

I personally think that Crystal Abundance is still one of the most OP swarms in the game though. It's basically an Autowin now with Xyz Monsters and plus it wipes the field and can't be stopped by all the top Anti-Destruct cards. If that's not cheap then I'm not sure what is...

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

The enablers are generally the cards at fault, not the cards that they enable. Laggia and Dolkka, for example, are fine when they can't be made from just one card.

Also, your grasp of time is rather poor when you say Rescue Cat was abusable when it was released.

[Sora1499]

[quote name="The Hounds Of Anubis" post="6326891" timestamp="1388025925"]The enablers are generally the cards at fault, not the cards that they enable. Laggia and Dolkka, for example, are fine when they can't be made from just one card.Also, your grasp of time is rather poor when you say Rescue Cat was abusable when it was released.[/quote] Laggia and Dolkka aren't fine though...

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

What? How the fuck are they not?

[Sora1499]

Competitive-wise they're fine cuz they have barely left a mark on the meta recently, but design-wise they certainly aren't fine.A Solemn Judgment and a 2x War Chariot on 24 and 23 bodies respectively is broken.

Competitive-wise they're fine cuz they have barely left a mark on the meta recently, but design-wise they certainly aren't fine.A Solemn Judgment and a 2x War Chariot on 24 and 23 bodies respectively is broken as shit, and if they ever get a good Dino deck they might hit the list.

[Toffee.]

Competitive-wise they're fine cuz they have barely left a mark on the meta recently, but design-wise they certainly aren't fine.A Solemn Judgment and a 2x War Chariot on 24 and 23 bodies respectively is broken as shit, and if they ever get a good Dino deck they might hit the list.

Outside of anything Rabbit-related, and aside from Evols-
What decks are even capable of playing Laggia/Dolkka?

And don't say Jurracs, since they do other stuff as well.

[Sora1499]

Outside of anything Rabbit-related, and aside from Evols-What decks are even capable of playing Laggia/Dolkka?And don't say Jurracs, since they do other stuff as well.

That's the point: the only reason they're fine in the meta is because they lack a good deck that can consistently summon them. They're not fine design-wise.

[TFMegamanlan]

The enablers are generally the cards at fault, not the cards that they enable. Laggia and Dolkka, for example, are fine when they can't be made from just one card.

Also, your grasp of time is rather poor when you say Rescue Cat was abusable when it was released.

First off, Rescue Cat when it came out had Beast targets in every deck, it was like how Tour Bus is now, people were teching Beast Tuners for targets and plenty of decks already had Beast targets that worked. It was already an easy LV6 Synchro and a very easy LV7-8 extremely quickly. That is why it got banned back in the Synchro Era, it was poorly designed and was incredibly broken then. (I don't know if now it would be less broken as I tend not to play Traditional and plus back when Rescue Cat came out, there was no cards like Veiler to stop its effect, just Divine Wrath which I'm kinda thinking was never really used.

My point is that many times the 'broken' cards that came out long ago were not broken, or were even completely useless when they came out. Cards like Return from the Different Dimension were not made to break Dragon Rulers: RftDD was actually made as a very strong counter to DD Decks. Effectively it made it that you got all the cards that your Opponent spent so much time to Banish and was extremely situational. Cards like that and Rekindling were not broken or even very usable when they came out, Rekindling became good because the theme it mean't to support: Flamvell got lots of good support then the Card Creators were dumb and kept making different themes that could use Flamvell support and now it's broken. I think that Mass Summon cards shouldn't be generic like Rekindling or that they shouldn't (if they make it with a limitation like Rekindling) have nearly every new card that is a type of card be able to fit into the Requirements to a Mass Summoner like Rekindling. (Yes, I wish they'd stop making FIRE Monsters with 200 DEF)

Here is what I see usually breaks Mass Summon/Good Supports:
1. Badly Designed Cards (ex. Dragon Rulers)
2. Making something like 100 decks that can use a single support card. (ex. What happened to Rekindling)
3. The card was badly designed to start. (ex. Rescue Cat)

Just look at other Mass Summoners that aren't used often right now:
Crystal Abundance for example, it is beyond rediculously broken. First, it wipes the Field clean then leaves Crystal Beasts equal to the Number of Cards your Opponent lost. People aren't complaining about this card because right now Crystal Beasts aren't exactly broken (that has to do with the lack on consistency in the deck among other things, especially the lack of destruction in the deck.)
While Mass Summons do become a problem that can be solved by hitting them, What I see the true problem is that Konami should stop making decks that can very easily abuse Mass Summons. When that happens Mass Summons won't be the problem they become now.

[Blake]

First off, Rescue Cat when it came out had Beast targets in every deck, it was like how Tour Bus is now, people were teching Beast Tuners for targets and plenty of decks already had Beast targets that worked. It was already an easy LV6 Synchro and a very easy LV7-8 extremely quickly. That is why it got banned back in the Synchro Era, it was poorly designed and was incredibly broken then. (I don't know if now it would be less broken as I tend not to play Traditional and plus back when Rescue Cat came out, there was no cards like Veiler to stop its effect, just Divine Wrath which I'm kinda thinking was never really used.

See, you're just proving you don't know what you're talking about here.

 

Rescue Cat came out in Flaming Eternity. It wasn't broken until the Synchro Era.

 

That's years apart. 12 packs apart. 3 fucking years. Minimum.

[Sora1499]

See, you're just proving you don't know what you're talking about here.

Rescue Cat came out in Flaming Eternity. It wasn't broken until the Synchro Era.

That's years apart. 12 packs apart. 3 fucking years. Minimum.

Ad homineeeeeeem.

Regarding Megaman's above post, there is such a thing as broken design. Cards that aren't broken in practice due to lack of usability/cards to exploit but have piss-poor design are just waiting to explode.

[TFMegamanlan]

Rescue Cat and Super Rejuv were 2 of such cards. You can argue that RftDD was too but there are still good arguments that its wasn't intended for DD Decks and was in fact to be an Anti-DD Card. But now those decks are mostly all but dead, and now Return now only becomes a stupid card that made Dragon Rulers OP.

[SANDAA BORUTO]

FORBIDDEN:

Dragon Ravine See ya.

Return from the Different Dimension Bye.

Self-Destruct Button Die in a fire.

Sixth Sense Leave before I rip you.

 

LIMITED:

Dragon Rulers And I hope these damn idiots die now.

Debris Dragon Since when is this relevant?

Magician of Faith Yay.

Divine Wind of Mist Valley ...

Final Countdown Should have been banned.

Sacred Sword of Seven Stars Yay.

Spellbook of Fate Should have been banned.

 

SEMI-LIMITED:

Obligatory Chaos Sorcerer Move.

Lonefire Blossom Don't care.

 

UNLIMITED:

Archlord Kristya No one runs 3.

Mezuki Did nothing at 2.

Plaguespreader Zombie No one cares about him.

T.G. Striker Yay.

Tour Guide From The Underworld I personally won't run 3, so I don't mind this going to 3. And I'll be flamed for it, I can just see it.

Constellar Ptolemy M7 So I get 3 M7 again? Cool.

Fire Formation - Tenki Don't care.

[Dog King]

FORBIDDEN:

Dragon Ravine See ya.

Return from the Different Dimension Bye.

Self-Destruct Button Die in a fire.

Sixth Sense Leave before I rip you.

 

LIMITED:

Dragon Rulers And I hope these damn idiots die now.

Debris Dragon Since when is this relevant?

Magician of Faith Yay.

Divine Wind of Mist Valley ...

Final Countdown Should have been banned.

Sacred Sword of Seven Stars Yay.

Spellbook of Fate Should have been banned.

 

SEMI-LIMITED:

Obligatory Chaos Sorcerer Move.

Lonefire Blossom Don't care.

 

UNLIMITED:

Archlord Kristya No one runs 3.

Mezuki Did nothing at 2.

Plaguespreader Zombie No one cares about him.

T.G. Striker Yay.

Tour Guide From The Underworld I personally won't run 3, so I don't mind this going to 3. And I'll be flamed for it, I can just see it.

Constellar Ptolemy M7 So I get 3 M7 again? Cool.

Fire Formation - Tenki Don't care.

 

Final Countdown doesnt matter if its at 0 or 1, its the exact same thing pretty much.

[TFMegamanlan]

FORBIDDEN:
Dragon Ravine See ya.
Return from the Different Dimension Bye.
Self-Destruct Button Die in a fire.
Sixth Sense Leave before I rip you.

LIMITED:
Dragon Rulers And I hope these damn idiots die now.
Debris Dragon Since when is this relevant?
Magician of Faith Yay.
Divine Wind of Mist Valley ...
Final Countdown Should have been banned.
Sacred Sword of Seven Stars Yay.
Spellbook of Fate Should have been banned.

SEMI-LIMITED:
Obligatory Chaos Sorcerer Move.
Lonefire Blossom Don't care.

UNLIMITED:
Archlord Kristya No one runs 3.
Mezuki Did nothing at 2.
Plaguespreader Zombie No one cares about him.
T.G. Striker Yay.
Tour Guide From The Underworld I personally won't run 3, so I don't mind this going to 3. And I'll be flamed for it, I can just see it.
Constellar Ptolemy M7 So I get 3 M7 again? Cool.
Fire Formation - Tenki Don't care.

Debris is to hit Dragons, (it was used in the deck to get Star Eaters all day) plus to keep plant decks from insanely spamming Black Rosé.

Lonefire is to support Plants. Yea... This will become just dumb...

Mezuki/Plague - This was to explicitly support Vampires.
Tenki will be scary this format. Bujins get 3 searches for their base monsters? Bujins are already getting dumb with the new support... Now a lot more consistancy to the deck is bad.

[Dog King]

mezuki and plague was the fact that zombies werent even used slightly when they came back to 2 and they wont when they comeback to 3

[TFMegamanlan]

mezuki and plague was the fact that zombies werent even used slightly when they came back to 2 and they wont when they comeback to 3

Um, unless you were playing at a Locals or starting rounds of Regionals, nothing did anything unless it was a Dragon Ruler variant. That was the only Tier 1 Deck this format.
With the deck finally dead (which I guess 99% of players hope is dead for good) decks that were not doing much before will do a lot more now. Vamp's had a horrible match-up against Dragons and still against Lightsworn. Now, Vampires and Zombies in general will have a lot more play as the deck that killed Zombies the most is dead. They'll pop up some, not sure if they'll be like the very top of a YCS but expect to see more of them at smaller tournaments.

[Dog King]

Um, unless you were playing at a Locals or starting rounds of Regionals, nothing did anything unless it was a Dragon Ruler variant. That was the only Tier 1 Deck this format.
With the deck finally dead (which I guess 99% of players hope is dead for good) decks that were not doing much before will do a lot more now. Vamp's had a horrible match-up against Dragons and still against Lightsworn. Now, Vampires and Zombies in general will have a lot more play as the deck that killed Zombies the most is dead. They'll pop up some, not sure if they'll be like the very top of a YCS but expect to see more of them at smaller tournaments.

im pretty sure in every top 32 there were about atleast 12 other decks that topped, and none of the time it was anything to do with zombies

[vla1ne]

With the lightsworn and zombie support, my king of skull servants deck might actually stand a chance against a few higher tier decks this format.

[Slinky]

It's just a card that supports Rulers, and we want Rulers dead. Last list killed off 15 of their card slots. They still top. Their very designs are ridiculously degenerate, and Konami has been trying to patch things up ever since. While still making money, of course.

 

And giving us more retarded cards in the process (cough*evilswarmexcitonknight*cough)

Debris is to hit Dragons, (it was used in the deck to get Star Eaters all day) plus to keep plant decks from insanely spamming Black Rosé.

Lonefire is to support Plants. Yea... This will become just dumb...

Mezuki/Plague - This was to explicitly support Vampires.
Tenki will be scary this format. Bujins get 3 searches for their base monsters? Bujins are already getting dumb with the new support... Now a lot more consistancy to the deck is bad.

 

I agree. Bujins already don't let you play yu-gi-oh, STOP MAKING SUPPORT FOR THESE GUYS. The sheer amount of complaints for this deck is staggering already. And the amount is only going to drastically increase if they keep making bullshit support like the crap they put in Primal Origin.

[Delibirb]

And giving us more retarded cards in the process (cough*evilswarmexcitonknight*cough)

 

I agree. Bujins already don't let you play yu-gi-oh, STOP MAKING SUPPORT FOR THESE GUYS. The sheer amount of complaints for this deck is staggering already. And the amount is only going to drastically increase if they keep making bullshit support like the crap they put in Primal Origin.

Hand Traps are cool though. And there is at least 1 Anti-Hand Trap card.

 

EDIT: Three actually. Tyrant's Tirade, Mind Drain, and Debunk.

[vla1ne]

DNA surgery/zombie world, are pretty strong sides for bujin matches. other than soul drain. I find myself running them in decks that don't need the typing/grave as much.