Raigeki

[Bringerofcake]

And rogue decks are kicked extra hard in the teeth.

[EHN.]

 Next format: Harpie's Feather Duster to 1.

 

And then Cold Wave, Heavy and Trunade.

 

Wouldn't be surprised at this rate.

[Blake]

But those aren't remotely comparable...

 

I mean yeah, this list reeks of creep, but that doesn't change that you can't compare Raigeki to even Heavy Storm.

 

Monsters are a plentiful resource. Even moreso when most of the relevant ones float, with only main deck nutellas and assorted Xyz/Synchros don't.

 

This is not the horrific sign it's being made out to be; At least, in terms of what's coming off the list.

 

Most S/T don't recur. The ones that do are due to monsters; El-Shaddolls, Ghostrick Dullahan/Alucard, Dante, Spellbooks, DDD Temujin/DD Cerberus, somewhat BotFF - Cardinal, HEROes (Masks), and random stuff.

 

Now let's thin this down based on which of these have backrow that will regularly be stormed:

Shaddoll (Roots alone, which floats)

Ghostricks

Burning Abyss (if the Traveler and the Burning Abyss sees more play or Lake sees play)

DDD

Fire Fist

 

Now this is a fair bit. But then you look at these examples, and the only 2 whose recycling does anything beyond just renew advantage are DDD and Ghostricks.

 

Ghostricks get protection back. Or their less than optimal fields. That's it. They don't have some absurd power play and the recycling depends on their bosses hitting the grave. It's not really slow, but it's not fast either, and the cards it gets back are generally fine.

 

DDD Temujin can recycle their OPT Continuous Raigeki Break that buffs fiends by 1000 during the opp's turn. When it gets destroyed and sent to the grave by the opponent. That's kinda restrictive and slow. And can be outplayed.

 

DD Cerberus can recycle the RotA/Fusion, but that's just advantage renewal. And the thing is, in this case, getting heavied means you lose the pendulum scales needed to use this effect, unless you stockpiled and didn't manage to kill them for some reason.

 

Yes, decks can somewhat recover from heavy, but a lot of decks won't be able to. Removing a bunch of S/T is much, much more powerful than killing monsters. Sure, Raigeki encourages you not to overextend, but Heavy creates a gamestate where you either have to:

A. Go all in despite fear of heavy, because you'll get wrecked if you don't (See: Qliphort Matchup, before they drop their scales), and it's just 1 card in the deck.

or

B. Play in fear of Heavy and lose because they have too many answers.

 

And neither of those are comparable to Raigeki. You won't stop extending in most decks because you can still recover.

 

You cannot compare Backrow Removal to Monster Removal, as the levels of power are completely separate.

[Goose]

But those aren't remotely comparable...

 

I mean yeah, this list reeks of creep, but that doesn't change that you can't compare Raigeki to even Heavy Storm.

 

Monsters are a plentiful resource. Even moreso when most of the relevant ones float, with only main deck nutellas and assorted Xyz/Synchros don't.

 

This is not the horrific sign it's being made out to be; At least, in terms of what's coming off the list.

 

Most S/T don't recur. The ones that do are due to monsters; El-Shaddolls, Ghostrick Dullahan/Alucard, Dante, Spellbooks, DDD Temujin/DD Cerberus, somewhat BotFF - Cardinal, HEROes (Masks), and random stuff.

 

Now let's thin this down based on which of these have backrow that will regularly be stormed:

Shaddoll (Roots alone, which floats)

Ghostricks

Burning Abyss (if the Traveler and the Burning Abyss sees more play or Lake sees play)

DDD

Fire Fist

 

Now this is a fair bit. But then you look at these examples, and the only 2 whose recycling does anything beyond just renew advantage are DDD and Ghostricks.

 

Ghostricks get protection back. Or their less than optimal fields. That's it. They don't have some absurd power play and the recycling depends on their bosses hitting the grave. It's not really slow, but it's not fast either, and the cards it gets back are generally fine.

 

DDD Temujin can recycle their OPT Continuous Raigeki Break that buffs fiends by 1000 during the opp's turn. When it gets destroyed and sent to the grave by the opponent. That's kinda restrictive and slow. And can be outplayed.

 

DD Cerberus can recycle the RotA/Fusion, but that's just advantage renewal. And the thing is, in this case, getting heavied means you lose the pendulum scales needed to use this effect, unless you stockpiled and didn't manage to kill them for some reason.

 

Yes, decks can somewhat recover from heavy, but a lot of decks won't be able to. Removing a bunch of S/T is much, much more powerful than killing monsters. Sure, Raigeki encourages you not to overextend, but Heavy creates a gamestate where you either have to:

A. Go all in despite fear of heavy, because you'll get wrecked if you don't (See: Qliphort Matchup, before they drop their scales), and it's just 1 card in the deck.

or

B. Play in fear of Heavy and lose because they have too many answers.

 

And neither of those are comparable to Raigeki. You won't stop extending in most decks because you can still recover.

 

You cannot compare Backrow Removal to Monster Removal, as the levels of power are completely separate.

 

Your face when you just compared backrow removal to monster removal.

[Blake]

I meant in terms of power and applications...

[Goose]

Is this or Royal Tribute better?

[werewolfjedi]

evil fusion is right, raigeki on principle should not be a card that is okay in any standard meta state. it just shows you how expendable some monsters are, or on the flip side, how hard some monsters are to kill.

[Sleepy]

Taking into account that not only do Pendulums just go away for a turn, that many cards have build-in protection for destruction, or that there are plenty of floaters out there that laugh at it, I can see why this is possible.

 

Not only that, but you could arguably consider Dark Hole better than this since the "drawback" of affecting your monsters as well, nowadays can be beneficial and make them combo with it, which is more than what Raigeki could do.

 

 

I agree that on design and principle, this card being back is nuts and shouldn't have happened, but in terms of impact, it really is not gonna do too much. Personally I'll enjoy putting it in decks just for the hell of it. I think if the price increases, it'll just be for the hype. The card I bet is gonna get dropped from builds as much as Dark Hole eventually.

[Daigusto Sphreez]

Monster destruction is less powerful than backrow destruction, because so many monsters float, whereas most spells/traps don't get extra effects (closest thing they get is things like breakthrough skill, skill prisoner etc), so undoubtedly Raigeki isn't as scary as heavy coming back, but it still makes little sense to allow this rather than to put dark hole at 2. Sure you can throw one of your monsters you want in the graveyard with dark hole, but most of the time you won't want to be throwing your field away.

[Expelsword]

Honestly, I feel like it's the fact that most monsters give you something when they die (Shadolls, Cosmic, Hands) or throw themselves back so easilly (Stella, Pendulum) nowadays that Konami feels they can safely take this card off the list, but I submit to you that monsters shouldn't be doing that all the time.

 

To me, it just feels like Konami saying "how do we get people to use these new monsters?" - "I know! They give you advantage everywhere!"

[Ultravires]

Floater meta. Won't be played. Doesn't merit pages and pages of discussion.

[Maeriberii Haan]

There's almost no discussions here anyway. Only overreactions, people saying that this card won't be used due to the format, and generally just reactions to this card being limited.

[.Leo]

I understand the comments about how this is a floater meta and it won't impact the game as much as it is hyped to be, but it still doesn't mean that the card is not broken and should remain banned. It has been banned for a decade, why should it come back now in a metagame it won't influence much? What happens when it can find its way into a meta that is not as heavily based on floaters? How broken will we find it then?

[Maeriberii Haan]

oh my god, Leo.

 

You're still alive?

 

Speaking of that...

 

I really don't think it'll get a middle ground position of being balanced good, it's either meh, broken, or situationally broken (if the meta is composed of half decks that doesn't get affected by it and half decks that's killed by it).

 

But eh, this is konami.

[White Void]

Honestly, I think it says a lot about the progression of this game when a card like Raigeki is considered not worth using in a format.

[Expelsword]

I dunno about you guys, but I'm putting it in every deck.
This could be my only chance to shout

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtCiP8B2xpc[/media]

[LeLukeX]

Raigeki will be used in every Deck that attacks to win, that's for sure.  Even against something like Shaddolls, a one time nuke for free, clear the board for some attacks?  Hey for just 1 card invested in doing that it's all so worth it.  

I mean no one thinks about what Raigeki does in the long run, since it's been banned for so long.  But Raigeki, I genuinely believe will be healthy in the long run.  It will have the same role Heavy Storm did for Mass Setting, and that's to keep Mass Setting in check.  Raigeki will keep Mass spamming in Check.  It will also severely punish OTK decks that have the (screw the traps, I have monsters mentality).  This includes stuff like Lightsworns and Hieratics.  When was the last time any one of you players Summoned your hand to the board and feared a Dark Hole?  Quite a while ago.  Dark Hole has been power creep'd to death and only Decks like Fire Kings and Yang Zings still use them.  

Bringing Raigeki back is perfect since ALL players will use it, players will not just spam into the board in without fear of Raigeki, which is how the game should be.  YOU SHOULD BE SCARED of Dark Hole.  But we no longer are, and as a result Konami took the experimental move of bringing back Raigeki.  It just might force Hieratic Decks and Lightsowrn Decks to not be Gimmicky with just monsters and monsters, maybe a Royal Decree, and OTK based.  It might turn them into a Normal Deck that runs it's fair share of traps.      

[Slinky]

Raigeki will be used in every Deck that attacks to win, that's for sure.  Even against something like Shaddolls, a one time nuke for free, clear the board for some attacks?  Hey for just 1 card invested in doing that it's all so worth it.  

I mean no one thinks about what Raigeki does in the long run, since it's been banned for so long.  But Raigeki, I genuinely believe will be healthy in the long run.  It will have the same role Heavy Storm did for Mass Setting, and that's to keep Mass Setting in check.  Raigeki will keep Mass spamming in Check.  It will also severely punish OTK decks that have the (screw the traps, I have monsters mentality).  This includes stuff like Lightsworns and Hieratics.  When was the last time any one of you players Summoned your hand to the board and feared a Dark Hole?  Quite a while ago.  Dark Hole has been power creep'd to death and only Decks like Fire Kings and Yang Zings still use them.  

Bringing Raigeki back is perfect since ALL players will use it, players will not just spam into the board in without fear of Raigeki, which is how the game should be.  YOU SHOULD BE SCARED of Dark Hole.  But we no longer are, and as a result Konami took the experimental move of bringing back Raigeki.  It just might force Hieratic Decks and Lightsowrn Decks to not be Gimmicky with just monsters and monsters, maybe a Royal Decree, and OTK based.  It might turn them into a Normal Deck that runs it's fair share of traps.      

 

Stop using backwards logic.

If people don't fear Dark Hole, why would they fear Raigeki?

[Rodrigo]

YOU SHOULD BE SCARED of Dark Hole.

 

Why would I be scared of Dark Hole if my Midrash/Trihiver/Number 18 float?

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

Hell, most of the time Dark Hole is played, it IS Raigeki. All Raigeki offers is that you can play it while having an actual frontrow (or you can Dark Hole while having a frontrow that would benefit from it). And that a lightning storm is infinitely cooler than a black hole, this coming from someone who likes Satellars just because they're named after stars.

[Maeriberii Haan]

Isn't it shocking?

 

How the thunderous return of Raigeki is met with a thundering hype, despite the shocking realization that it is not actually effective anymore?

 

Not all people can resist electrocuting the opponent's field, it seems.

 

But every relevant decks in the meta has installed their lightningrod so the shock won't really do them much harm.

 

Safe to say that Raigeki

 

got grounded.

 

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

[Slinky]

Why would I be scared of Dark Hole if my Midrash/Trihiver/Number 18 float?

 

Why include Midrash?

Midrash shrugs off Dark Hole like a toy.

[Rodrigo]

Why include Midrash?

Midrash shrugs off Dark Hole like a toy.

 

Yep, it doesn't even die to it.

 

Also Qliphs all go back to the Extra Deck when they die.

 

So yeah, no reason to be afraid of Raigeki.

[Dog King]

Wow dis game is shit

[Althemia]

Wow dis game is s***

The fact that it's taken this long for some people to realize is actually quite sad tbh.