[Discussion] Between TCG/OCG Format and "DN Format"

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It isn't just that, his views on various cards are pretty out there too.

if you look in the comments sections of this link, you'll see some pretty stupid stuff.

http://ygorganization.wpengine.com/necloth-vakilyrus-ftk/

 

(if you aren't already aware, he is LordTyranus). You have to scroll a pretty decent way down though before he starts saying some reallllllly inaccurate s***.

err, I think the way I said it is the problem rather than what I said, but yeah, I got way to worked up in that convo

[evilfusion]

In all honesty, I just wanted to understand the mindset as to why he's so opposed to the format, since it's kind of becoming a breeding ground for potential arguments. If I can at least see and understand the other side's viewpoint, it doesn't matter if I agree with them.

 

And yes, I noticed the dissimilarity and simply chose not to point that out in the same breath as asking a serious question.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

There's a difference between that, and

and that's another place where I got all emotional and went on a stupid crusade for OCG...............

[evilfusion]

and that's another place where I got all emotional and went on a stupid crusade for OCG...............

 

This thread, 10 hours ago?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

This thread, 10 hours ago?

One cannot begin to understand how much I despise star seraph and Nebra and it irritates me to no end seeing them @3. That being said, I understand and won't get as vocal anymore

[Toffee.]

I like how Bringerofcake understood what I was getting at.
So let me elaborate more, on the off chance I wasn't already obvious.

DN, for the most part, is just a really, really, ghetto version of the World Champ games.
By this, I mean the fact said games typically included a large handful of JP cards that either weren't out yet, or were coming out. How is that any different to DN? I mean, yes, said cards are still JP/OCG/whateverthefuckyouwanttocallit but the point still remains that it's the fact it's a TCG-based system with the inclusion of ALL the cards at the time; Just like the World Champ games.

Hell, even sites like DevPro and DMG also do this bastardization of things.
The reason behind all this is the sole fact people just to play the damn game with all the cards available to them, with only having to worry about the current list. Plus, it leads to more experimentation because things can also end up very unorthodox/etc.

[Expelsword]

I just wanna use OCG cards.

 

Clearly the problem here is that they decided to make 2 separate lists.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I just wanna use OCG cards.
 
Clearly the problem here is that they decided to make 2 separate lists.

This, at TCG will eventually have to give in, OCG tutors the packs to their banlist

[Aerion Brightflame]

 

It's because TCG banned Ravine and Stratos. Because he only played DRulers and HEROs, and he finds Tewart to be a complete f**king moron for banning them. He also finds OCG much more skillful because they have to deal with Shock Lock and the like because OCG is clearly a good format. Does that answer your question?

 

I feel that to be a potentially biased or sarcastic answer intended to strip him of credibility.

 

It's a fairly accurate assumption of his general standpoint. The specifics change from time to time, but over the year or two of posts I've seen him make (Both on here and DNF), it is essentially accurate to his general viewpoint.

 

Oh that and he has an extremely liberal view when it comes to the banlist. And I use liberal to be polite. 

[CLG Klavier]

It isn't just that, his views on various cards are pretty out there too.

if you look in the comments sections of this link, you'll see some pretty stupid stuff.

http://ygorganization.wpengine.com/necloth-vakilyrus-ftk/

 

(if you aren't already aware, he is LordTyranus). You have to scroll a pretty decent way down though before he starts saying some reallllllly inaccurate s***.

...

 

...

 

...

 

HE IS LORDTYRANUS?

 

FOR REAL?

 

IT EXPLAINS A LOT

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

 

 

 

It's a fairly accurate assumption of his general standpoint. The specifics change from time to time, but over the year or two of posts I've seen him make (Both on here and DNF), it is essentially accurate to his general viewpoint.

 

Oh that and he has an extremely liberal view when it comes to the banlist. And I use liberal to be polite. 

 

Not really, I think OCG has about 5ish cards they can unban and that's really it

Like OCG has

Goyo, DMoC, TER, MoF and Sinister.....Idk if that's liberal

[Toffee.]

TCG has Goyo and Magician of Faith. Just sayin'

Restrict could honestly go to 1, if only because Instant Fusion would turn it into 1-for-1 removal that bypasses lots of things for the cost of 1000 and an Extra Deck slot.
'Course, it's not stopping people from then going and using Call of the Hainted/etc as a means of getting more out of Restrict, which could get a rather crazy.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

TCG has Goyo and Magician of Faith. Just sayin'

Restrict could honestly go to 1, if only because Instant Fusion would turn it into 1-for-1 removal that bypasses lots of things for the cost of 1000 and an Extra Deck slot.
'Course, it's not stopping people from then going and using Call of the Hainted/etc as a means of getting more out of Restrict, which could get a rather crazy.

Yeh, I'm say OCG side could have it unbanned 2

[Toffee.]

Yeh, I'm say OCG side could have it unbanned 2

I meant TCG wise, because TCG typically doesn't give a fuck about the game.

[Sleepy]

I meant TCG wise, because TCG typically doesn't give a fuck about the game.

 

Is that sarcastic? because although I don't know about this specific format we are currently in, but before the last change in October I was pretty sure the TCG list was better in a lot of places.... When did it turn upside down?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Is that sarcastic? because although I don't know about this specific format we are currently in, but before the last change in October I was pretty sure the TCG list was better in a lot of places.... When did it turn upside down?

OCG october cleaned up a lot of shit and we didn't get a broken peice of trash like Raigeki back...I would argue OCG oCT >Tcg ocg

[goddamnit names are a pain]

Raigeki? Broken?

…eh.

 

…TCG's list is better in many ways.

 

OCG october cleaned up a lot of s*** and we didn't get a broken peice of trash like Raigeki back...I would argue OCG oCT >Tcg ocg

What did it clean up? I still see tons of rampant shit on their list.

[Sleepy]

Raigeki is not nearly as bad as Trishula and Shock Master being unbanned IMO. 

 

Though it is still not a good thing to have. Yes topping decks float so it would only delay them a turn at best, but if you think about it, a lot of Raigeki's purpose then just boils down to clearing the board to make a big push (AKA going for the OTK in this day and age). I'd rather have triple Torrential like OCG does in that regard. I don't think I'd rather have any other of the OCG list changes, just the Torrential instead of the Raigeki.... personally.

[Slinky]

OCG still having Shocky @3 is more than enough to fully discredit the entire list.

 

I know the TCG doesn't care about its players, but at least they actually pretend to.

[Expelsword]

Konami only cares about money.

 

That's the only reason they would ban a card, and then print a card with the exact same effect (plus another one) that's not even harder to summon.

[Toffee.]

Is that sarcastic?

It is, and it isn't.
It is, because TCG lists typically do stupid things if only for the sake of experimentation, which more often then not prove to either suck or outright break everything.
It isn't, because decks/archetypes/etc are typically forcefed into people if only for the sake of hype/money/etc.
Or at least the way I see it.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

I can't name one thing TCG has done recently to break the game. RoTA was the worst move in a while, but I wouldn't say it was a broken move.

The things they keep bringing back aren't even…relevant, most of the time. Bulb? Goyo? Raigeki? They're used, but hardly at all (with maybe the exception to Raigeki) and aren't doing much anyway. They bring back stuff they can afford to bring back.

The OCG?

...

[Slinky]

I can't name one thing TCG has done recently to break the game. RoTA was the worst move in a while, but I wouldn't say it was a broken move.

The things they keep bringing back aren't even…relevant, most of the time. Bulb? Goyo? Raigeki? They're used, but hardly at all (with maybe the exception to Raigeki) and aren't doing much anyway. They bring back stuff they can afford to bring back.

The OCG?

...

 

Introducing Burning Abyss is about the absolute worst they have done ever since the Baby Rulers. And BAs are nowhere near as bad as the shit the OCG is pumping out right now.

 

Using trish as an example for the OCG. They unban the synchro version and it doesn't see much play outside of random Unknown Synchron techs in R4.deks (Not because of its power level, but because its a synchro, which lets face it, are losing a lot of power outside of specific builds). And they take that as a gateway for "Oh well, such a powerful monster that curbstomped previously formats is no longer seeing much play!" Instead of actually determining why it isn't seeing play, they go "Such a powerful monster must be perfectly okay for the gamestate, but lets take it a step further and upgrade it!" And thus Necloths are made, and as such, the "Trishula every turn" is pretty much back in full, only worse because Necloths literally plus off of everything they do, whether it be Shrit or searching for things to get out trish.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Raigeki? Broken?

…eh.

 

…TCG's list is better in many ways.

 

What did it clean up? I still see tons of rampant s*** on their list.

Raigeki is "bad" since BA floats and Qliphorts Pseudo float, but it turns into a OTK button cause it doesn't ruin setup

 

It cleaned up the two best decks of OCG July format meta...it's not gonna ban s*** that makes TCG players, who don't really impact the OCG metagame, feel sad

 

Rampant? I'm guessing you are a person that deems Gateway of the Six rampant even tho the card is dusty play wise in OCG...nothing is too powerful there atm, so no nothing is rampant in the slightest

 

Raigeki is not nearly as bad as Trishula and Shock Master being unbanned IMO. 

 

Though it is still not a good thing to have. Yes topping decks float so it would only delay them a turn at best, but if you think about it, a lot of Raigeki's purpose then just boils down to clearing the board to make a big push (AKA going for the OTK in this day and age). I'd rather have triple Torrential like OCG does in that regard. I don't think I'd rather have any other of the OCG list changes, just the Torrential instead of the Raigeki.... personally.

Trish and Shockmaster are not a OTK this turn button in the slightest. Trishula became needed as a dedicated form of removal can can bypass certain cards and decks that layer protection on a single card and a way to boost syncs. Shockmaster is not bad OCG side for a reason that you yourself noted, we have 3 TT, extrapolate this, we have 3 compuls and a lot of other cards, unlike the TCG, all 3 colors are very very potent in OCG and thus shock often turns into a - (post star seraph) and only decks that can constantly generate +1's like DDT can use it (and OCG has noted and will demolish DDT soon)

 

OCG still having Shocky @3 is more than enough to fully discredit the entire list.

 

I know the TCG doesn't care about its players, but at least they actually pretend to.

And the fact that you think Shock is relevant outside of one deck that is significantly less powerful post SECE discredits you. Also OCG cares more about the players since they 1) Reprint cards that people want 2) Send officials to everything down to locals to watch games 3) Model the banlist of what people like

 

Konami only cares about money.

 

That's the only reason they would ban a card, and then print a card with the exact same effect (plus another one) that's not even harder to summon.

Like TCG with Monster Reborn and Soul Charge, OCG doesn't do that s***

 

It is, and it isn't.
It is, because TCG lists typically do stupid things if only for the sake of experimentation, which more often then not prove to either suck or outright break everything.
It isn't, because decks/archetypes/etc are typically forcefed into people if only for the sake of hype/money/etc.
Or at least the way I see it.

I think TCG does it's job, they apply the banhammer to everything and yes that solves matters pretty easily. I think cards like Primal Seed are the only stupid moves TCG makes but w/e the list is sorta fine

 

I can't name one thing TCG has done recently to break the game. RoTA was the worst move in a while, but I wouldn't say it was a broken move.

The things they keep bringing back aren't even…relevant, most of the time. Bulb? Goyo? Raigeki? They're used, but hardly at all (with maybe the exception to Raigeki) and aren't doing much anyway. They bring back stuff they can afford to bring back.

The OCG?

...

Bulb is bad design as its always live in the grave, a fair alternative would be something like Unknown or Jet Synchron, but w/e not relevent

Raigeki is inexcusable, they unbanned a OTK button, it's that much worse since the format is all floaty since Rai becomes less of a "nuke" and more of a OTK this turn button

 

The OCG:

 

Trish-Proven to be fine in the game for OCG

Stein-meh, all or nothing that actully has a positive effect of keeping some decks in place

DSF-why hasn't TCG done this?

Wind Up Carriar-THE BROKENNESS HIMSELF

Introducing Burning Abyss is about the absolute worst they have done ever since the Baby Rulers. And BAs are nowhere near as bad as the s*** the OCG is pumping out right now.

 

Using trish as an example for the OCG. They unban the synchro version and it doesn't see much play outside of random Unknown Synchron techs in R4.deks (Not because of its power level, but because its a synchro, which lets face it, are losing a lot of power outside of specific builds). And they take that as a gateway for "Oh well, such a powerful monster that curbstomped previously formats is no longer seeing much play!" Instead of actually determining why it isn't seeing play, they go "Such a powerful monster must be perfectly okay for the gamestate, but lets take it a step further and upgrade it!" And thus Necloths are made, and as such, the "Trishula every turn" is pretty much back in full, only worse because Necloths literally plus off of everything they do, whether it be Shrit or searching for things to get out trish.

Dyson are you actually retarded? Trish has been out for a year OCG side and let me list the decks that use it

 

Rulers

T.G. Madolchey

Heroes (your point)

Shaddolls

Necloths

 

1/5 that's a failing grade, and also OCG saw that Trish was one of the best Sync in the game and they nerfed necloth trish, you have to have a card in each place for it to work, you might scoff at that but it's actually very important...now please stop being an ignorant f*** and talk s*** about things you don't know a damn about

[Slinky]

Rulers are deadish aside from a few that pop up every now and then, but they certainly aren't the norm anymore

TG Madolche isn't relevant, like.. at all.

Shaddolls are a fair point

what tuner are you using in Necloth to summon this thing? Because having it as level 9 fodder for Kaleido doesn't count as uh.. "using" it.

 

Its worded exactly like the original trish yet has an opposite ruling. That isn't a nerf, that's a contradiction that Konami is known for.

Also, you're implying having 1 in each area is hard. It's not.

 

EDIT: You called Bulb bad design due to being always live. OCG still has Solemn Judgment. Always live, and is generally significantly more potent than Bulb ever will be due to being a cockblocker to every single relevant card in the game whereas Bulb just advances a play.