[Discussion] Between TCG/OCG Format and "DN Format"

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Because no format currently allows you to do that. Stop grasping at straws.

And no format allows you to run 3 ROTA in Nekrots
There are 3 legal formats
Traditional TCG does not have Nekrots
TCG does not have Nekrots
OCG does not have 3 ROTA

...gtfo

[Blake]

The thing is, you can easily just do it for theory/argument's sake.

Yeah, the format doesn't exist, but you can try to figure out how the deck would do in a TCG environment, and then you can just adapt to the list as it comes.

It's not going to be anything definitive, but it's at least a form of personal knowledge to garner.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Black I would agree with you, if you had said that anytime before the shitstorm of Sept 2013. KoA has shown it's very capable of pulling something of GC's nuke on the card pool and they could very well have another purge of a magnitude you can't "adapt" to.

 

IDK, the people on DGz gave me shit for days for using Galaxy Serpent in OCG hieratics, if we can't get the "DNCG" experience, what makes it right for TCG side to. And DGz was right, by the time GS got over to OCG, the lists had eradicated the deck in question and that's when I realized the wisdom in their words

[Aerion Brightflame]

Black I would agree with you, if you had said that anytime before the shitstorm of Sept 2013. KoA has shown it's very capable of pulling something of GC's nuke on the card pool and they could very well have another purge of a magnitude you can't "adapt" to.

 

I would just like to point out - What happens if the banlist didn't nuke everythng relevent and completely change the format? The practice becomes relevant then. What possible negative is there to testing how a card will behave in a similar enviroment, when it'll either give you relevant practice of how the deck will likely function in that environment, or you'll have just wasted a bit of time? 

 

Either way, the existance of a TCG like format with the OCG card pool is still a functional way to prepare for an expected format. And as I said, there's no penalty if the format doesn't turn out anywhere close to the prediction other than lost time. Thus, so long as the idea of it being essentially a testing like format is kept in mind, DNCG is not a bad thing to have. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I would just like to point out - What happens if the banlist didn't nuke everythng relevent and completely change the format? The practice becomes relevant then. What possible negative is there to testing how a card will behave in a similar enviroment, when it'll either give you relevant practice of how the deck will likely function in that environment, or you'll have just wasted a bit of time? 

 

Either way, the existance of a TCG like format with the OCG card pool is still a functional way to prepare for an expected format. And as I said, there's no penalty if the format doesn't turn out anywhere close to the prediction other than lost time. Thus, so long as the idea of it being essentially a testing like format is kept in mind, DNCG is not a bad thing to have. 

In the case of Necloths a ROTA hit to bring back Stratos for the wind Masked Hero is very likely tbh, that being said another problem exists.

 

We all know July OCG was a hellhole of  tier 0 with Seraph Dolls, OCG, the BROKE FORMAT, was worried enough to slam 7 limits on this deck, now DNCG has this deck in pretty much full potential...do you really think a deck that tier 0'ed OCG is a good deck to have in a "TCG test format"?

 

It doesn't have to be a nuke also. My Hieratic Rulers didn't get "nuked" per say, it was a slow erosion over 3 banlists,

 

First Rejuv and Sarc got limited

Then Rulers when 3->2->1

Finally Ravine and Shrine went 3->1

by the time Galaxy Serpent got to OCG there wasn't much of a deck left, but nothing got "NUKED" per say....it's just bad practice

[goddamnit names are a pain]

I'd say testing a deck in OCG when you are a TCG player just because people claim it's bad to do otherwise is an even worse practice.

I don't play OCG; why should I start preparing for TCG by playing OCG?
Are you saying people shouldn't test things in advance to get the feel for a format?

[Sleepy]

In the case of Necloths a ROTA hit to bring back Stratos for the wind Masked Hero is very likely tbh, that being said another problem exists.

 

We all know July OCG was a hellhole of  tier 0 with Seraph Dolls, OCG, the BROKE FORMAT, was worried enough to slam 7 limits on this deck, now DNCG has this deck in pretty much full potential...do you really think a deck that tier 0'ed OCG is a good deck to have in a "TCG test format"?

 

It doesn't have to be a nuke also. My Hieratic Rulers didn't get "nuked" per say, it was a slow erosion over 3 banlists,

 

First Rejuv and Sarc got limited

Then Rulers when 3->2->1

Finally Ravine and Shrine went 3->1

by the time Galaxy Serpent got to OCG there wasn't much of a deck left, but nothing got "NUKED" per say....it's just bad practice

 

I don't think the RotA change is all that likely to be honest. HERO has RotA, Emergency Call, A HERO Lives, and will have Shadow Mist and potentially further deck thinning with Lavalval Chain combos. Everything unlimited. -1 RotA wouldn't be too tragic. Some people even prefer 2 RotAs over 3 out there, in fact.

I think most often the TCG list changes are the lists with lesser impact changes. A few lists ago actually, they intentionally only really hit the topping decks every other list. That said, the assumption is much more likely to be accurate than a 50/50.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I'd say testing a deck in OCG when you are a TCG player just because people claim it's bad to do otherwise is an even worse practice.
I don't play OCG; why should I start preparing for TCG by playing OCG?
Are you saying people shouldn't test things in advance to get the feel for a format?

Arguably October OCG is a far better test for when Nekrots come out cause we have Masked Heroes SECE and none of the "plus out of my ass" star doll shit. You don't need shockmaster, Delt and Oro do the job well enough, actully post noden people moved away from T1 Double Shock to the T1 spam Delt deck till OCG said "stop" and limited Soul Charge, COnstruct, winda, DAD, Monk, Chair, and Games in a finishing blow. Let's see. TCG has DAD@1 [email protected] that's it....Yeh right that's not even a hit, Seraph Heroes were the ones that needs 3 charge Shaddolls only ran 1-2...DAD was a bad hit OCG side

I don't think the RotA change is all that likely to be honest. HERO has RotA, Emergency Call, A HERO Lives, and will have Shadow Mist and potentially further deck thinning with Lavalval Chain combos. Everything unlimited. -1 RotA wouldn't be too tragic. Some people even prefer 2 RotAs over 3 out there, in fact.
I think most often the TCG list changes are the lists with lesser impact changes. A few lists ago actually, they intentionally only really hit the topping decks every other list. That said, the assumption is much more likely to be accurate than a 50/50.

I see ROTA getting more than a limit with a Stratos unban imminent, UNLESS TCG is smart and limits AHL instead. That being said, OCG is still a far closer meta to when Nekrots come out than DNCG is atm for reasons stated above

[Slinky]

Or..

the TCG could be smarter and not unban Stratos at all. 

[goddamnit names are a pain]

Or..

the TCG could be smarter and not unban Stratos at all. 

So much this.

Just…so much.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Or..
the TCG could be smarter and not unban Stratos at all.

dumbass there is a wind Masked Hero to sell and Avian won't cut it. Also AHL=1 card Dark Law...tooling is a lot stronger than searching in heroes anymore

[Slinky]

BECAUSE THE WIND FUSION IS WHY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BUY THE STRUCTURE

 

 

AMIRIGHT?!?!

 

I MEAN, IT COULDN'T POSSIBLY BE SHADOW MIST OR DARKLAW

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

BECAUSE THE WIND FUSION IS WHY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BUY THE STRUCTURE
 
 
AMIRIGHT?!?!
 
I MEAN, IT COULDN'T POSSIBLY BE SHADOW MIST OR DARKLAW

Hmm Kamikaze is the 3rd best card in the deck and a holo so yes they need to unban stratos

[Toffee.]

ITT: THE YUGIOH WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES

[Sleepy]

Hmm Kamikaze is the 3rd best card in the deck and a holo so yes they need to unban stratos

 

Economically speaking, if the Structure Deck already contains those other cards as an incentive to buy the deck, then the WIND will be bought along with the other ones by default, so unbanning Stratos wouldn't really benefit them any more in that regard. Especially if its not, say, meant for a different deck or variant of the deck from the other two note-worthy cards, so you can't say you are uninterested in Dark Law and Shadow Mist but the WIND one did hit the spot on your needs either.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Economically speaking, if the Structure Deck already contains those other cards as an incentive to buy the deck, then the WIND will be bought along with the other ones by default, so unbanning Stratos wouldn't really benefit them any more in that regard. Especially if its not, say, meant for a different deck or variant of the deck from the other two note-worthy cards, so you can't say you are uninterested in Dark Law and Shadow Mist but the WIND one did hit the spot on your needs either.

Err maybe not, but the wind has a shit ton of utility, and ROTA@3 is a dumbass move. Do what OCG will do in Jan and Limit AHL and semi Rota for the compromise

[evilfusion]

It's fake. I can make a format where three PoG is legal and "test" it all I want cause it's fun and I can get hard off "the plays" the fact remains it's not relevent not real. But feel free to give yourselves boners playing your pussy format for TCG players who can't deal with the OCG list

 

I'm completely baffled by your emotional hatred towards the DN format.

 

I can easily grasp your non-hostile points regarding the accuracy of the format for testing and issues with the banlists vs unreleased cards. These make sense, but I don't get where your contempt is coming from, or why you insist on being derogatory almost every time you reference people who play in this format.

 

I don't think there's really any question as to whether the DN format is relevant, or even an accurate reflection of a future metagame, but I feel there's a detail I'm missing that would explain your hostility towards the subject.

[The Warden]

It's because TCG banned Ravine and Stratos. Because he only played DRulers and HEROs, and he finds Tewart to be a complete f**king moron for banning them. He also finds OCG much more skillful because they have to deal with Shock Lock and the like because OCG is clearly a good format. Does that answer your question?

[evilfusion]

It's because TCG banned Ravine and Stratos. Because he only played DRulers and HEROs, and he finds Tewart to be a complete f**king moron for banning them. He also finds OCG much more skillful because they have to deal with Shock Lock and the like because OCG is clearly a good format. Does that answer your question?

 

I feel that to be a potentially biased or sarcastic answer intended to strip him of credibility.

[The Warden]

Trust me, if you read what he does on YGOOrg you would know that I'm neither.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

I feel that to be a potentially biased or sarcastic answer intended to strip him of credibility.

He has credibility?

 

But really, if you hate the TCG/DNCG or whatever over a couple of cards that should be banned and because the TCG is generally being designed to care about what people think...

That's on you.

 

Not saying it's true, but if it is...

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It's because TCG banned Ravine and Stratos. Because he only played DRulers and HEROs, and he finds Tewart to be a complete f**king moron for banning them. He also finds OCG much more skillful because they have to deal with Shock Lock and the like because OCG is clearly a good format. Does that answer your question?

Nope. I'm not happy with those bans I'll admit, but I have no problem with TCG. It's a legal format that solved its problems in its own way (tho I dislike the way in question) unlike DNCG which took the cancers of OCG and slapped them onto TCG calling it a day

I'm completely baffled by your emotional hatred towards the DN format.

 

I can easily grasp your non-hostile points regarding the accuracy of the format for testing and issues with the banlists vs unreleased cards. These make sense, but I don't get where your contempt is coming from, or why you insist on being derogatory almost every time you reference people who play in this format.

 

I don't think there's really any question as to whether the DN format is relevant, or even an accurate reflection of a future metagame, but I feel there's a detail I'm missing that would explain your hostility towards the subject.

My "hatred" for the for the format stems from three main factors

 

1) It has no real bearing to real life

2) It was given as "consolation" prize for OCG players when DN first added it and its a s*** comparison at that

3) It has some of the worse balance in the game of YGO. Chronofacts and Starseraph Dolls both ruined OCG for a good period of time and while even OCG had the sense to neuter these decks DNCG does not. The trauma so to speak of Febuary and July OCG is still a little to near and I don't see why anyone would want to play a format with those cancers running about. It's a bad testing ground for TCG because you are literally tossing in some of the strongest OCG cards into the mix and its a bad test for OCG cause the cards @3 in DNCG are usually hit in some way. I see no point in it. If you want to test necloths, go ahead and do it in unrated, I'm not happy with some trigger happy shitface running Star Seraph Dolls with 2 Monk and Raigeki +5ing me for a Delt getting the same rating I get in a BA (TCG) or Hero(OCG) mirror match

 

 

He has credibility?

 

But really, if you hate the TCG/DNCG or whatever over a couple of cards that should be banned and because the TCG is generally being designed to care about what people think...

That's on you.

 

Not saying it's true, but if it is...

 

I don't hate TCG over stratos or Ravine, I find it less appealing than OCG when I feel like playing heros or Rulers, but more so when I want to play something like T.G. agents. My strife with DNCG is that there are cards that clearly deserve hits that don't get them because the TCG list cannot hit OCG exclusives. Let's be srs now there is no f***ing way that Tewert lets Stick Chair Chair live for multiple formats. Also I would argue that OCG cares more about what players think, cause if you look at the April list they addressed the general playerbase want for WU's to get boat back, or in Sept, the Trishula unban when people wanted a resugence in sync, or in October when the playerbase hated the Stick Chair Chair Shock Winda Construct plays t1...OCG officials actually ask players what they want in the list and take it into account.....like the Tournament where they tested DMoC. Yes, OCG has made some terrible decisions like printing star seraphs, but they clean up, fast

[evilfusion]

Oh, you're against DN RATED using that format. And you're evidently an OCG player, which explains quite a bit as well.

[Slinky]

Oh, you're against DN RATED using that format. And you're evidently an OCG player, which explains quite a bit as well.

 

It isn't just that, his views on various cards are pretty out there too.

if you look in the comments sections of this link, you'll see some pretty stupid stuff.

http://ygorganization.wpengine.com/necloth-vakilyrus-ftk/

 

(if you aren't already aware, he is LordTyranus). You have to scroll a pretty decent way down though before he starts saying some reallllllly inaccurate shit.

[Maeriberii Haan]

Oh, you're against DN RATED using that format. And you're evidently an OCG player, which explains quite a bit as well.

 

There's a difference between that, and

 

It's fake. I can make a format where three PoG is legal and "test" it all I want cause it's fun and I can get hard off "the plays" the fact remains it's not relevent not real. But feel free to give yourselves boners playing your pussy format for TCG players who can't deal with the OCG list