Love

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Nothing lasts forever though. It like an investment you know is going to fail on you. So that begs the question is it worth feeding. 

 

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating pretending to love, that's the cruelest thing you can do since Ignorance isn't bliss

 

Maybe you guys are right, but the pain of losing it just really shatters you and makes me question if a few years of bliss is worth a lifetime of nostalgia and longing

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Your last line sums it all up.

Love is not a feeling. Love is a state of being. Emotions can be attached, for sure, but to call love a feeling degrades it, and really only serves as a reason for people to turn a blind eye to what "true love" is.

I absolutely and 100% disagree and that's really all I can say to that anymore.

Calling your idea of love the only "true" love degrades the whole concept imo

[ihop]

With that mentality, what's the point in anything? Nothing lasts for ever, but why not enjoy it while it's there?

[Blake]

I absolutely and 100% disagree and that's really all I can say to that anymore.
Calling your idea of love the only "true" love degrades the whole concept imo

Love is, at the core, devotion. This isn't some basic idea that one person has, it's something that's basically established through the generations. The only reason that it's not more widely understood is because of culture as a whole, for two basic reasons:
1. The portrayal of love in fiction being more prominent to the masses than ever.
2. 'Social Justice' mindsets making people think that they have the right to have opinions on everything ever, without ever being wrong.

I'm not looking down on the emotions people associate with love. That "in love", that passion comes and goes throughout a relationship, throughout a lifetime, and it's very imporant. But that is not what love is. That's not what makes a marriage work, that's a premise that, if built upon solely, leads to failed marriages. And don't start on how I'm looking down on people who don't get married, it's merely a means to show a state of 'completion' to love.

Do you have some burning passion that makes you care for your family? Do you have some burning passion for your friends? I'd think not, but you love them all the same. And a romantic relationship's only difference is the degree of intimacy. Sure, that sounds clinical and demystifying, but when you consider how deep the trust and devotion actually is, the amazing nature of love actually shows itself.

The feelings do not last. Not for anyone. Am I in love with Bree right now? Nope. Have I been in and out of in love with her multiple times in our four years together? Eeyup. Just four years and the cycle is something I've gone through multiple times. The feelings are very important, but they're a point to build from, not to build with.

Love can even fall under simply being content, at times. Just content with that person. But that contentment comes from the connection.

The only thing 'mystical' about love that I'd be degrading is that people think it is, in fact, 'mystical'. It's honestly hard fucking work, not some super magical thing in and of itself. Can it be magical? Surely, but those emotions are not love, and no one will seriously try to say that they are.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Black, have you ever considered that your situation is not the do-all end-all?

[Blake]

Black, have you ever considered that your situation is not the do-all end-all?

Giga, have you ever considered I'm using a single, more personal, example in a sea of them?

I'm not speaking from my relationship alone. I'm speaking from standards that have been around for at least 2 millenia.

Ancient Greek philosophy split love into 4 categories, based on 4 different words for love:

• Storge (familial), the natural affection and/or devotion you have towards your kin. Most common to blend with the other 3 types, as it grows from within those types.
• Philia (brotherly/friendship), based on bonds with friends. It breaks down further into Of Utility (Acquaintances, people you do business with), Of Pleasure (drinking buddies, people you hang out with for fun, often fail when people stop enjoying certain activities), and Of the Good (The devotion and care for that friend is the basis, steadily grows stronger. Called "true friendship" with modern english). And one of these is the one that blends with Storge into a lasting relationship. "Of the good" is also generally given to symmetrical stances in a friendship.
• Eros (Lust, desire to reproduce, 'love at first sight'). It's the passion, the feelings, but it's not lasting love. It's fleeting. In fact, given its nature, it has been portrayed as something doomed to fail througout history's works of fiction. Only the modern era really showcases it as some pinnacle. Sure, that's fiction, but fiction does have a very real effect on the world.
• Agape (Selflessness, compassion, forgiveness) is the type of love that leads to a truly lasting relationship of any kind. Familial can stand on its own, Philia can work on its own if it's "of the Good", Eros can't last on its own, but Agape ties them all together. Agape is what's present in "of the good", and what is naturally present to relationships with family members. It's not there to please you, it's there to help one another. It's what makes things work in the long term, as it's a deep connection borne of giving yourself to another. Devotion, selflessness, compassion, and it all adds up to contentment and safety.

"But Black, that was Ancient Greece"

And it's been held up for all the time since, and is still considered a very good tool for understanding love.

This isn't my opinion. This is something that's been thought about since the beginning of time, almost. To understand the true nature of the connection we call 'love'. And true, I minced some words considering how the topic is tackled, but there it is, laid out. None of these types of love are bad or wrong, but they need one another to last. ESPECIALLY Eros, because it's based on fickle emotions alone.

I could have phrased my points better, but the core remains, and the core holds strong.

[Tourmaline]

You really took the Plato talk to heart, Black.

Good thought.

[T. Sankara]

You really took the Plato talk to heart, Black.

Good thought.

 

You're Gaston.  Is it possible to love anyone other than yourself?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

You're Gaston.  Is it possible to love anyone other than yourself?

Gaston loved the attention and the fame.

 

I guess a question would be, do you have to love a living entity? Like would being a megalomaniac be considered love

[Icy]

In regards to sexual or romantic love. I've had many, including [REDACTED] and [REDACTED] who I don't like talking about very much because the feeling is still so strong that if I keep on that train of thought long enough I wind up having to throw up. The feeling is still that intense after [REDACTED] [REDACTED]. But I do not regret it one bit, nor do I think pessimistically or negatively of the experience, and for all intents and purposes have moved on--- I think. And I am grateful to have these feelings and experiences. 

[Aix]

(All of the stuff you've said so far in this thread)

If true love does not consist of feelings, then what is it? A promise? A social contract? A purpose? A method of self-gratification? An ideal? A construct? The recommended form and definition of love? Or some other sort of feeling or instinct from deep inside that compels you to act?

 

If it is any of the above, then I would say this true love is still subjective and not everyone can adhere or agree to it. Agape certainly sounds like a social contract/ideal/principle to me.

 

 

On the other hand, my ideal of love is rather similar. I do hold rather romantic notions about love, despite having never experienced anything other than instances of minor infatuation that I never cared to act upon. I am a rather callous person who does not form very strong emotional bonds. I am compelled to do selfless things and act for the sake of others, but if it came down to something serious, without other factors involved (such as emotions or a cause I believe in), I'd put myself first. That would all change in the case of love.

 

Let's start with friendship, I'm talking about the shonen kind you find in fiction. I'd think there'd have to be some sort of extreme circumstances, but I think it would be possible to make my emotions and/or principles truly put someone above myself. Of course, I don't see this in black and white either, there are people already that I'd reasonably risk my life and/or well-being for.

 

Then, there's romantic love. My ideal of love is probably naive, fairy-tale-like and most of all unrealistic and nigh impossible to find. However, I have no need for it now, nor do I think I would for a long time, but I want to ultimately find it (whether I'll grow out of this dream, I do not know, but I am a persistent person that may give up easily, but will come right back at it). The person I love would be the person I would place above myself on probably every occasion. This person would be the one that just seeing or thinking about would lift my spirits (this is like some conditioning a la Pavlov, but I don't care, since everything is just a psychological phenomenon. Whether this is sort of thing is even possible, I feel it is for me and I think I know myself well, there are some things I just do not tire of. Even reading upon psychological data regarding love, I would think I would go through what Black said of re-falling into love). However, this person would have to be someone I felt worth devoting myself to. This person would be someone I love for both their good points and their flaws. This person would then be a purpose to life that supersedes any that I have or will have.

 

This is kinda too much information, but yay for the security of relative anonymity on the internet that makes me comfortable saying this stuff. Writing it down does put my thoughts in order for myself as well. Also stupid human instinct to share stuff that doesn't need to be shared.

[Agro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T9DfQembak

 

love is whatever passion pit expresses in Gossamer

[Aix]

Because Nai brought it up in a Skype chat, I decided to read up on the triangular theory of love out of curiosity, which is rather convincing and conforms with what I have personally noted and believed. What it did bring my attention to was the ways which the different forms/aspects of love could die. Though, in that case, I'm sure there are ways to maintain them.

[Blake]

If true love does not consist of feelings, then what is it? A promise? A social contract? A purpose? A method of self-gratification? An ideal? A construct? The recommended form and definition of love? Or some other sort of feeling or instinct from deep inside that compels you to act?
 
If it is any of the above, then I would say this true love is still subjective and not everyone can adhere or agree to it. Agape certainly sounds like a social contract/ideal/principle to me.

It's giving yourself away. It's taking a leap of faith. It's not feelings in the passion sense or emotional sense, so much as a trust, a bond. A deep one, at that.

Agape is an ideal, yes, but the others lead to it and work towards it, with the exception of Eros. And Eros isn't bad, it just works with emotions more than the bonds between human beings, unlike the other three. It's unique, it's just not the type of love that forms a lasting bond in-and-of itself.
 
The fact that the bonds and commitments are what lead to success isn't subjective. Sure, there are well known couples who don't seem to fit this, but there's also status involved in a lot of those, which means that, though I can't speak personally on any of their relationships, that they may or may not have a commitment to each other so much as to their status.

On the other hand, my ideal of love is rather similar. I do hold rather romantic notions about love, despite having never experienced anything other than instances of minor infatuation that I never cared to act upon. I am a rather callous person who does not form very strong emotional bonds. I am compelled to do selfless things and act for the sake of others, but if it came down to something serious, without other factors involved (such as emotions or a cause I believe in), I'd put myself first. That would all change in the case of love.

But that's the thing. What you've said doesn't go against what I said. Love can evoke that change in people. The beginning of love could be called a phenomenon, especially given how common it is for relationships to begin with at least some form of Eros, and that phenomenon could easily lead to you changing how you feel.

As I typed, I realized I could specify a bit more. When you devote yourself to someone, become vulnerable before them, that person becomes much, much more valuable to you. It's not precisely emotional, but it becomes a part of who you are. You put that person's worth higher, and it often results in putting their value above your own. This isn't to say you're a new person, but you can easily be a changed person when you become part of a set.
 

Let's start with friendship, I'm talking about the shonen kind you find in fiction. I'd think there'd have to be some sort of extreme circumstances, but I think it would be possible to make my emotions and/or principles truly put someone above myself. Of course, I don't see this in black and white either, there are people already that I'd reasonably risk my life and/or well-being for.

Love has no greater than he who would lay down his life for another. It was mentioned earlier in this thread, though abridged.
 

Then, there's romantic love. My ideal of love is probably naive, fairy-tale-like and most of all unrealistic and nigh impossible to find. However, I have no need for it now, nor do I think I would for a long time, but I want to ultimately find it (whether I'll grow out of this dream, I do not know, but I am a persistent person that may give up easily, but will come right back at it). The person I love would be the person I would place above myself on probably every occasion. This person would be the one that just seeing or thinking about would lift my spirits (this is like some conditioning a la Pavlov, but I don't care, since everything is just a psychological phenomenon. Whether this is sort of thing is even possible, I feel it is for me and I think I know myself well). However, this person would have to be someone I felt worth devoting myself to. This person would be someone I love for both their good points and their flaws. This person would then be a purpose to life that supersedes any that I have or will have.

You know something? Your ideal isn't exact, but it's not far off, in my experience.

I would like to throw in that I have that Pavlov-esque reaction to Bree most days, even when I'm not passionate. She gives me hope, she tells me the world's a good place.
 

Also, this is kinda too much information, but yay for the security of relative anonymity on the internet that makes me comfortable saying this stuff. Writing it down does put my thoughts in order for myself as well. Also stupid human instinct to share stuff that doesn't need to be shared.

*shrug* All I can say to this here is that I don't think you said too much.

What I can say from experience is that trying to Agape is the way to go. Eros is fine, Philia is fine, and Storge is more than fine, but Agape is the reason I've had so much success.

Yes, that is definitely an opinion, as opposed to collective thoughts from multiple millenia earlier, but that's what I owe it all too. You laid a bit on the line, so I figure I'll do the same here.

When I finished 9th grade, I had to move from my home town to New Jersey. I started anew, and I only recently had gotten online at all, only using MySpace and Facebook towards the end of Freshman year. Not long after I moved, I began to grow close to a girl from 8th grade, via facebook. We'd talk all the time, grew close, ad I was even going to go with her to prom Junior year. I ended up falling hard for her. I told her, but there was no acting on it. It was one-sided infatuation. That said, everything was fine, we'd talk on the phone or chat for hours.

But things fell apart between 10th and 11th grade. She had lied to me at some point, though I didn't realize until later, and she cast me aside. At this point, I was a wreck. Shocker. Once I resolved all the remaining issues I had with the event, I actually began to study love in depth.

I'd been cast aside or left alone too many times, and I refused to fail when I got into a real relationship. Sure, it did happen with another friend later, but... not the romance.

I studied. I took Psychology, I read book after book (be they fiction or study), theory after theory, and I came to the conclusion that Agape was the way to love. To "love like God", instead of simply waiting for Agape to grow. To be a person with an open heart and open arms to those around me, as I was given to trying to give others what I was denied, anyways. Yes, the way I tackled romance was inspired by my faith, and I've grown jaded in general relationships since then, but it's something that paid off in spades. And I honestly believe my idealistic attempts to skip straight to general Agape were wrong.

For Bree, they were exactly what she needed. Low esteem, body issues, lonely, bad at trusting... And she fell for me because of how I tried to enact Agape as a rule of thumb. Sure, others took advantage of me, abandoned me, abused me... But all that did was make the bond Bree and I shared stronger. Because she wouldn't leave my side. And when she spent the better part of 4~ months being suicidal almost every day... To the point of lashing back at me... Not once did I stop giving her that open, forgiving, selfless love.

And that's not to say our relationship has been perfect since then. We've both fucked up pretty badly. But we both truly want to make things work, we're devoted to loving each other. And you know something else? The reward for my Agape was... Her Agape. There are passionate moments, there are moments we just spend time as best friends or cuddling, but at the core, I know that "for the Good", that Agape is there. And it's what tells me that it's a success. That my theory worked out.

The above is most certainly an anecdote as opposed to evidence, I won't deny that. But I felt like I may as well explain a personal example, all the same.

I should probably get back to that Pas-Agape approach, though reversing damage is difficult, especially the damage done as a result of that Agape and making myself vulnerable. My skin's tougher now, though, so I should be able to do it if I really try.

[~NOiSE~]

I can agree with everything Robin has said 100%. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Giga, have you ever considered I'm using a single, more personal, example in a sea of them?

I'm not speaking from my relationship alone. I'm speaking from standards that have been around for at least 2 millenia.

Ancient Greek philosophy split love into 4 categories, based on 4 different words for love:

• Storge (familial), the natural affection and/or devotion you have towards your kin. Most common to blend with the other 3 types, as it grows from within those types.
• Philia (brotherly/friendship), based on bonds with friends. It breaks down further into Of Utility (Acquaintances, people you do business with), Of Pleasure (drinking buddies, people you hang out with for fun, often fail when people stop enjoying certain activities), and Of the Good (The devotion and care for that friend is the basis, steadily grows stronger. Called "true friendship" with modern english). And one of these is the one that blends with Storge into a lasting relationship. "Of the good" is also generally given to symmetrical stances in a friendship.
• Eros (Lust, desire to reproduce, 'love at first sight'). It's the passion, the feelings, but it's not lasting love. It's fleeting. In fact, given its nature, it has been portrayed as something doomed to fail througout history's works of fiction. Only the modern era really showcases it as some pinnacle. Sure, that's fiction, but fiction does have a very real effect on the world.
• Agape (Selflessness, compassion, forgiveness) is the type of love that leads to a truly lasting relationship of any kind. Familial can stand on its own, Philia can work on its own if it's "of the Good", Eros can't last on its own, but Agape ties them all together. Agape is what's present in "of the good", and what is naturally present to relationships with family members. It's not there to please you, it's there to help one another. It's what makes things work in the long term, as it's a deep connection borne of giving yourself to another. Devotion, selflessness, compassion, and it all adds up to contentment and safety.

"But Black, that was Ancient Greece"

And it's been held up for all the time since, and is still considered a very good tool for understanding love.

This isn't my opinion. This is something that's been thought about since the beginning of time, almost. To understand the true nature of the connection we call 'love'. And true, I minced some words considering how the topic is tackled, but there it is, laid out. None of these types of love are bad or wrong, but they need one another to last. ESPECIALLY Eros, because it's based on fickle emotions alone.

I could have phrased my points better, but the core remains, and the core holds strong.

 

Black I honestly can't say how much this post impacted me. I've found I'm unable to feel the first two type of love anymore due to circumstances. The third just ends up making being short term gain, long term pain and loneliness. 

 

But Agape really does make sense to me, there is satisfaction in seeing the happiness of others that I still feel. Sorry for being so narcissistic (the fucking "I" 's in my post) but I want to know that really moved me :')

[Proto]

I really suck at love.

 

I've had an awful relationship with both of my parents, one of which hasn't been in my life since I was four years old and one of which I only meet at around eleven o' clock at night.

 

My brother and I have too many differences and have got into too many quarrels to bolster anything but a small friendship.

 

I have a tendency to completely cut off from people the second I feel like there's an awkward moment and I tend to mask myself a lot just because of my self consciousness. But I also happen to be a really bad liar.

 

Due to the fact that I am, indeed a pathological liar and am antisocial both on the internet and in real life, I've yet to experience love truly or even real compassion or sympathy for another human being.

 

But I happen to be an okay friend according to my current ones.

 

So maybe I'll get it someday.

 

Until then I'll just keep on living.

[Agro]

I don't entirely agree with real love being completely selfless.

 

You have to be at least a little bit selfish to really love.

 

Obviously I don't mean that in a derogatory way, I just feel it exists no matter the effect.

[Maeriberii Haan]

True selflessness doesn't exist, though this is not in a way a cynical comment. It's just how human works.

 

And besides, love is give and take. Love where you only give and give is...unhealthy, to say the least.

 

Love has many forms and types, but in the end it's made from 3 components. Intimacy, passion, and commitment. Having all 3 is the perfect ideal, but only having 2 of them is not too half-bad at times I guess. 

 

But I doubt we at this point can actually solidly describe the actual fundamental concept of love itself. maybe soon in the future, but not now.

For now, we should just cherish it as a inseparable part of the joy of being alive.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

I don't entirely agree with real love being completely selfless.
 
You have to be at least a little bit selfish to really love.
 
Obviously I don't mean that in a derogatory way, I just feel it exists no matter the effect.

I don't know how, but I agree.

And Black, I am not saying you are wrong. I am saying that the mentality of "This is the correct way to define love, and anything else is just infatuation" is painful to look at. There is more to it than can be defined in such a way, and that bit varies from person to person. If you cannot agree to the complexity of the human being and the uniqueness of relationships between, I do not know what sort of agreement could ever be reached on the matter.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

In summary. People are strange creatures and it's really hard to define them with anything, let alone something as full of emotions as love, and love-like feelings, tends to be.

 

In even more summary.

Love be crazy yo, but also crazy good.

[TheWhiteWizard]

well to most of the people arguing i thought this was a place to share experiences correct me if i am wrong.

Anyways for my experience, it was a long time ago, and it was the strongest i felt love. i have had crushes on girls but i have not actually love anyone like i love my mother. No, not in a sick perverted way. In the way a child loves there parents, but my father is really a stranger in my life. My mother was my world, i never felt sad around her. when i was hurting inside she knew how to make me feel better. I would have to clean my room and she would help me. I would be hungry and she would be there. I remember on time she layed down on the floor and she painted this organ cat, and i just layed in front of her and watch her. I remember her giving me a ring pop, and how when we finished a puzzled she would glue the pieces together and hng them up. One time she took my brother and I to a friends house and we rode horses.

The sadest day in my life, without a doubt was the day she died. Just writing this or thinking about her death makes me want to cry my eyes out, thats how muched i loved her. Now what i remember of that day was that my brother and i had to clean our room. My mother made a promise to help us, but she needed to talk to my dad. I have to tell you before i go any futher, she was bipolor and left for months at a time. After a time had passed, my brother and I went into our living room and hid behinds coach. I herd my mother yelling, i want to take them with me. She start comng our way and we ran to our room. she went into theres and locked the door. Later my dad broke down the door and there my mothers lifeless hody was hanging off the bars of there bed. My father did everything he could to bring her back. after soke time we were all on the poarch crying wanting for the perimadics.

I vowed as i grew order to be like her, well my memory of her a kind, and loving person. Lastly she was my greatest inspiration to want to be an artist.

[Power Armour]

How did you come to believe this? Because I honestly don't understand how anyone can think like that.

When you've seen as much betrayal of trust as I have then you can.

[Blake]

I don't entirely agree with real love being completely selfless.
 
You have to be at least a little bit selfish to really love.
 
Obviously I don't mean that in a derogatory way, I just feel it exists no matter the effect.

More anecodte to be used here.

You don't have to be selfish, not at all. At least, not to get it going, in any way.

I was open to everyone, way back when. Did it hurt? Yeah, it ended up hurting a lot. I was really let down that I put myself out there for others, to help them with their problems and woes, but rarely had people to fall on when I had some. But, with the one person who truly mattered and a few others, it paid off.

Interpret as you will, but I realized that I truly loved Bree more than others a week before I told her, and she agreed to date two days after that. I never said love to her, as not to scare her, only that I had feelings for her. But, tbh, Eros came after we began to date. I felt led to her, more than attracted to her in the traditional sense. It's difficult to feel Eros online at a stage like that.

Though, I'm getting off track.

She was always there for me. Before I ever had romantic intent towards her, she returned my Agape. She was always by my side, always there to help me. I ran off on DMG because I was tired of being ignored or whatnot? She came running after me and spent time with me alone, before we all had MSN or anything. She always came to me when I needed her, and vice versa. I truly, openly did for her what I would.

Hell, I gave her Agape before I knew anything about her. Like the fact she was a furry... I defended her from somebody who was calling all furries scum, despite thinking furries on the whole were weird. Because I knew better, and I knew to give her that Agape as a friend. I think after that is when she really began to crush on me, though she apparently had one for a while before.

Because I was nice. Because I was open. Because I was there. I wasn't a phony, I was a real person, there to help her through it all. And she did the same for me becaue I did it for her. Is it a nice perk to have it returned? Definitely.

Self-Concern exists, but a relationship gives you a sense of safety. Even when you're self-serving, you're still serving yourself in a way that involvess going out of your way for the other person, and I wouldn't call that being selfish. More a happy upside to doing something for another. It's not something you understand consciously, just something that happens.

Agape is about giving of yourself to others. Sacrifice. You don't have to be some pinnacle of selflessness to do it, you just have to teach yourself to treat people that way. Self-preservation exists, but is it truly self-preservation if that's not the motive?

I don't believe that everything we do is for our own personal pleasure, though I know people do, and I can't change that mindset in others. And I don't believe selfless love is self-serving. If someone sees the selfless love for what it is, they will reciprocate, in one way or another. If they don't, then you still gave someone a better day, or at least tried to.

I don't know how, but I agree.

And Black, I am not saying you are wrong. I am saying that the mentality of "This is the correct way to define love, and anything else is just infatuation" is painful to look at. There is more to it than can be defined in such a way, and that bit varies from person to person. If you cannot agree to the complexity of the human being and the uniqueness of relationships between, I do not know what sort of agreement could ever be reached on the matter.

In summary. People are strange creatures and it's really hard to define them with anything, let alone something as full of emotions as love, and love-like feelings, tends to be.
 
In even more summary.
Love be crazy yo, but also crazy good.

I mean, the fact that the passion/emotions are a diferent category than the bond and/or devotion aspects is established already.

Multiple theories center around it, and the passion always gets put seperately. Even the theory Nai refers to sorts the passion part of the triangle as infatuation.

Love isn't "feelings" in the traditional sense. Infatuation is. And Infatuation/Eros/whatever you call it is not a bad thing, and very, very often leads TO love (Agape, Philia, Storge) of the person you were infatuated with. But that's not what lasting love is. Eros/Infatuation is not what makes or breaks a relationship, though it most certainly helps to be interested in your partner.

Infatuation comes and goes in relationships. From my POV, that feeling that Aix described as "ala Pavlov"... has yet to fade.

It doesn't change "person to person", because the infatuation will inevitably fade. That's not subjective, that's fact. And the people who build relationships on that infatuation alone tend to fail... painfully. Love is amazing, love can be handled uniquely, but it all boils down to the bonds, the devotion, and temporary infatuations. Eros leads to stronger Agape, Philia, and/or Storge with the person you love, provided the proper effort is put in.

All I'm saying is not to confuse the infatuation with "true love". I've been putting it in quotes this whole time for a reason, and that's because I hate saying it, but I'm not sure how better to phrase it. Eros is pretty damn important to love, but it's... how do I put this...

Agape and/or Philia of the Good is the foundation of the house. The walls and roof are made by Storge, that feeling of being safe and at home.

Eros is like Air Conditioner or a Heating System. Makes life easier, but it's not a neccessity. It's an amenity.

Sure, that's not the greatest fit as you can go without AC/Heating System forever, but the idea remains. And it's not like you can't do things even in the lack thereof to make it go, like get fans or build a fire yourselves. It's just not going to be there all the time.

To believe in your Air Conditioner as the basis for your home is dooming you to fail. Same goes for basing love on Eros. It just doesn't work. There's a reason that, throughout history, Eros was associated with Tragedy in fiction (bar some fairy tales), unlike modern fiction that sings its praises. Even in modern fiction, sequels often have the romance that began in "episode 1" failing in "episode 2"... sadly, it only gets renewed with more Eros, instead of showing further development.

A love based in passion is a love that is fleeting. A love that isn't "true love". I'm not looking down on people for feeling Eros, it is important. But it is, in no way, shape, or form... A way to keep a relationship afloat. It's not enough to carry it, it never was, and it never will be. It's a whirlwind, it's exciting, it grabs your heart... and it fades. Such is the fate of Eros. It's comparable to "Of the Pleasure", though in a more intimate manner. And it will fall apart if it is all there is to a love. Sad, but true.

[Astolfo]

insert gaben is love gaben is life meme here

 

I'm not sure where I stand on this whole matter, but personally, I'd rather at least prefer viewing it as a beautiful thing based off emotions. I have no real-life significant other at the moment, but my ideal ending would be something similar to what Aix said, an innocent/caring/fulfilling/etc sort of love.

 

but toyo is love toyo is life