Delinquent Duo

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

Pay 1000 Life Points. Your opponent randomly selects and discards 1 card from his/her hand and then selects and discards another card from his/her hand.

 

So a +1 on facevalue, but there's honestly a lot of +1's that can fit around a quite a few decks, I really don't think that's a damning factor. What I feel has made Duo weak in comparison to the other two, Pot and Charity, is simply how much more the game has become grave oriented. 

 

Back in goat, Duo was considered bad when used if the opponent had resolved Thunder Dragon or had Sinister in hand, Now days we have + making machines that far exceed that. In match ups like Pepe/BA or monarch, you might in fact be helping the player out by burning the 1k. If anything it's major use would be to de-pendulum pendulum monsters and send em to the grave.

[Azuh]

It's still degenerate

 

Hand advantage is still a serious matter in this game. A card that's discarded still might stop a play. Theres a reason why a lot of cards that specifically discard hands are banned.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It's still degenerate

Hand advantage is still a serious matter in this game. A card that's discarded still might stop a play. Theres a reason why a lot of cards that specifically discard hands are banned.

Those all give you insight on their hand. Ie. confes, Sentry, and Dustshoot

 

Duo doesn't

[Kaiji]

Rofl at this card not being good in goats, then you bring up a reason that can be solved through technical play

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Rofl at this card not being good in goats, then you bring up a reason that can be solved through technical play

You really like to take things out of context don't you? If you read properly, you'd see I said when the opponent had sinister or thunder dragon. Are you saying Duoing a hand with sinister or TD isn't bad?

[The Highlander]

Plusing is one thing, but to take out one third of the opponents hand before he gets to play severly damages his possibilities and such a card would honestly only damage that game and what does this card offer that it would add to the game ?

This card is one of the cards which should simply stay banned as their initial design is already stuppid.

[vla1ne]

your opponent loses any 2 cards at random from their hand. i'm inclined to think konami not unbanning this is one of their few smart moves.

[Sleepy]

You should look hand and field advantage with different values here IMO.

Field is that which you are willing to invest on. Hand is what you wanna save for the right time.

This card in the game nowadays would potentially create the same scenario that Nekroz of Trishula and Exiton Knight created: Do I let my hand or my field be screwed? Which at the end of the day is not intuitive to figure out but a gamble. That is, when you do get to draw Delinquent Duo, which would mean it is more of a luck-sack play.

 

 

Though I can see what you are going for mid/late game with all the search Pepe has, they can basically double their resources after turn 1 and from then on it will still just be pluses, so 2 cards seem powerful even if not game-deciding on their own once the target of this has been established.
but what about decks that don't go so rampart with card advantage and that settle more for a solid line-up and means to keep it established? or what about the occasional turn 1 play which would just remove options before they could properly give the victim a leg to stand on? It seems like a risky idea, and I'd personally release Confiscation into the game before I did Delinquent Duo, yes it chooses any card and looks at the hand, but we already have cards that do that like the virus trio, and it at least sends to the Graveyard which is a softer form of removal than, say, Trap Dustshoot.

 

Ultimately, testing it out would be the best way to find out, but my post is basically what it sounds like on paper. "Initial thoughts" if you will. I think this is still ban-worthy myself.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

You should look hand and field advantage with different values here IMO.

Field is that which you are willing to invest on. Hand is what you wanna save for the right time.

This card in the game nowadays would potentially create the same scenario that Nekroz of Trishula and Exiton Knight created: Do I let my hand or my field be screwed? Which at the end of the day is not intuitive to figure out but a gamble. That is, when you do get to draw Delinquent Duo, which would mean it is more of a luck-sack play.

 

 

Though I can see what you are going for mid/late game with all the search Pepe has, they can basically double their resources after turn 1 and from then on it will still just be pluses, so 2 cards seem powerful even if not game-deciding on their own once the target of this has been established.

but what about decks that don't go so rampart with card advantage and that settle more for a solid line-up and means to keep it established? or what about the occasional turn 1 play which would just remove options before they could properly give the victim a leg to stand on? It seems like a risky idea, and I'd personally release Confiscation into the game before I did Delinquent Duo, yes it chooses any card and looks at the hand, but we already have cards that do that like the virus trio, and it at least sends to the Graveyard which is a softer form of removal than, say, Trap Dustshoot.

 

Ultimately, testing it out would be the best way to find out, but my post is basically what it sounds like on paper. "Initial thoughts" if you will. I think this is still ban-worthy myself.

Think you nailed it here, I wasn't entirely thinking about the Trishula/Exciton situation here when I made this topic. Duo tends to degrade in power rapidly as the turns go onward, but a turn 1 duo is devastating, especially considering decks like Pepe which can double their resources can run it too. It's definitely banworthy and should stay there. Confis maybe, but confis really doesn't erode in power like Duo would late game, but it is fair(er?) in that it's a 141 trade. I'd still be uncomfortable with it in the format.

[goodfusion]

This card getting limited would remind me very much of when Snatch Steal got limited last year. It would probably be way too good if drawn at the right time and everyone would use it simply because of its potential to swing games in an instant if you draw it at the right time. Easier to be a dead draw than Snatch Steal I would say but still a pretty awesome topdeck turn 1.

[Neochu-H]

NO

 

funk THIS STUPID CARD CAN STAY BANNED TO HELL FOREVER

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

NO

 

f*** THIS STUPID CARD CAN STAY BANNED TO HELL FOREVER

Yeah, I agreed I was being stupid when making this topic...I'm wrong, admitted that already

[Kaiji]

You really like to take things out of context don't you? If you read properly, you'd see I said when the opponent had sinister or thunder dragon. Are you saying Duoing a hand with sinister or TD isn't bad?

which u can solve by waiting for your opp to discard sinister, hence solveable by technical play???

 

nice try

so even then you basically ignored all situations where they don't have sinister

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

which u can solve by waiting for your opp to discard sinister, hence solveable by technical play???

 

nice try

so even then you basically ignored all situations where they don't have sinister

In which case they would no longer have Sinister in their hand >_>

 

You try to resolve sangan or even foolish if you're that desp to get sinister as soon as possible. 

 

I admitted this card would be terrible to have back in the current day, not entirely sure what you're trying to achieve here

[Sleepy]

which u can solve by waiting for your opp to discard sinister, hence solveable by technical play???

 

nice try

so even then you basically ignored all situations where they don't have sinister

 

I think both of you are just talking about the same thing here. It is pretty much a universal statement that Delinquent Duo is good in Goat Format, heck they even call it the "unholy trio" along with Graceful Charity and Pot of Greed. They are so staples that they have a nickname.

 

What Winter said is that in said format, situations exist that make Delinquent Duo not as desirable to use right then and there, such as when the opponent might have Sinister Serpent.

Garoudude123 says it is solved by waiting for the right moment to use it (ie when the opponent drops Serpent off their hand for one reason or another) and potentially forcing said scenarios out.

 

I... uhh... I don't think those statements contradict each other.... at all.

Garoudude123, you just took the word "bad" in that post and assumed something else.... I think it was just a big misunderstanding. Yes "bad" could have been "non-ideal" or any other synonym, but err........ 

 

Winter:

I wouldn't call it being stupid. It is a +1 in a format where pretty much all cards of the best deck do just that. It sounds straight-forward enough and worth the time to make sure what the general consensus is. I did that with Last Will back in the Xyz era. Yes some people very once in a while are just gonna be all "this is banworthy, are you dumb?" and just leave as if thinking any further explanation was too much "common sense" reasoning for them to have to elaborate, but hey, that's life.