Premier Alexander Romanov Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 So I just realized that running a deck using mostly the cards from one archetype is a great way to lose. But this got me thinking. Why can't every archetype be good? Why does a pro-level deck mix cards together from different archetypes? And what if you couldn't tech in one or two cards from an archetype, but have to use a deck with one or two archetypes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 The reason for this, at its most basic foundation, is that Konami gives archetypes an uneven amount of support, or an unbalanced amount of GOOD support versus mediocre support. Elemental Heroes got tons and tons and TONS of support. However, most of the support is absolute garbage and at least half are just anime plot devices. It's not that decks need to mix archetypes so much as they can use aspects of one or more of the support cards in different decks or for specific applications. Horn of the Phantom Beast isn't only for Phantom Beasts, for example, and a lot of decks have used it now. TG Striker, for example, is a Level 2 Earth Warrior Tuner. Right there, we have so many good, versatile things about it. Oh, and it has a Cyber Dragon effect. Now we have an amazing Tuner option. If you run TGs like Warwolf (which also has a pretty generic SS effect and can synergize with Striker), then you have a small search engine with spam and quick Synchro potential. Archetypes are supposed to have different playstyles, and if you give every archetype a Destiny Draw, then there's a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier Alexander Romanov Posted November 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Why am I so stupid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I agree with you evil. but I do support every arch type getting a d-draw. all arch types need some type of good draw or search engine..otherwise arch types that dont have them would simply be out paced by those that do, thus losing favor among players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 [quote name='Kurono Kei' timestamp='1320888971' post='5629643'] I agree with you evil. but I do support every arch type getting a d-draw. all arch types need some type of good draw or search engine..otherwise arch types that dont have them would simply be out paced by those that do, thus losing favor among players. [/quote] Generally speaking, I meant you dont want to give every archetype identical support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 [quote name='Reina Soho' timestamp='1320888867' post='5629639'] Why am I so stupid? [/quote] As I explained before, because you like the [i]Witchblade[/i] anime. [quote name='Kurono Kei' timestamp='1320888971' post='5629643'] I agree with you evil. but I do support every arch type getting a d-draw. all arch types need some type of good draw or search engine..otherwise arch types that dont have them would simply be out paced by those that do, thus losing favor among players. [/quote] If every archetype has a "Discard/Banish X, Draw 2", why not just make a generic discard -> draw 2 card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier Alexander Romanov Posted November 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 [quote name='Dr. Cakey-chan' timestamp='1320889179' post='5629659'] As I explained before, because you like the [i]Witchblade[/i] anime. [/quote] And what's wrong with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 It was a general statement, I didnt mean to have the exact same draw engine. d-draw was just the example. of course the engine would have to support the arch type play style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-so-Radiant Arin Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Blackwings.... After ANPR, they got worse and worse. And it was only because the cards became more and more plot-device like (take for example, Aurora the Northern Lights. I mean seriously, Where the Hell did Crow pull that card out from?) and they got mountain-loads of support. They were awesomesauce for about 6 months, but after that, LS, Plants, Agents, and Six Sams took over. With that being said, Archetypes like Six Sams can pretty much fit every card into their Deck that is named Six Samurai or has Shi En (Shien) in and they would still run fine. Though there are some cards that should be run more than others in a Six Sam Deck, it doesn't make it any less horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 God I hate Six Sams. >_> Their support shouldn't be that powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I dislike the fact that you have to mix to get powerful decks, too. In my case, I am player who prefers single-type Decks, or better known as "Solid" Decks, and I try my best to build a Deck that might be able to stand against the current meta; I have not succeeded yet. I currently use a Solid Machine Deck (in DN) mixing 2 archetypes, and it actually works pretty well, except when it comes to Synchros/Xyz, because of the limited number of Machine Synchros/Xyz available: For example, when I could Summon a Librarian, I must stick with Catastor, and there are no Level 6 Machine Synchros yet. The situation with Machine Xyzs is even worse: While Roach, Leviathan, Utopia, Chain, Emeral, etc. are around, I must stick with Zenmaines and Zenmaister, the former being harder to Summon because of the low number of Level 3 monsters I run. Naturally, If I add variety to the Extra Deck and replace Solidarity for other staple cards, the deck will become more competitive, but then I would be against my goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 PREPARE TO TL;DR (And because I was in the mood to write a wall of text) [spoiler=Story that's relevant to the topic] Arm ran Batteryman.dek back in the day. They have wonderful support cards and a style/concept that he found fascinating. Even to this day, it is still one of his favorite archetypes, purely because of that. Then as time went on, he also ran Ancient Gears and Cloudians. Ancient Gears were awesome, as Arm had a liking for EARTH monster, and an art style of rustic machines with exposed gears/parts, but he eventually scrapped that deck because of the lack of consistency, and overall mediocre support cards. Cloudians were soon to follow that same pattern. Batteryman, on the other hand, had received great support cards that let him net pluses off his favorite archetype. But as time went on, Konami finally had released cards for it that seemed amazing, but ultimately made him sadface over the whole thing. And then Honest going to 1 made it even worse. So for the time being, Arm had run a Yusei.dek, because of the hilarious combos you can pull off with Junk Synchron and Debris@3. But over time, much like everything else, Debris@1 and a few other cards being able to completely curb-stomp the deck in 1 fowl swoop, as well as a lack of proper funds, the deck eventually "fell apart", as he put it. It was still usable, but always lacked something. Even when he ran Quickdraw in it. And when all hope had seemed lost for this aspiring Duelist, Konami had introduced him to the Archetype known as "Scraps". It was at that moment, that Armadilloz had known that THIS was the archetype he had wanted. It consisted of rustic junkbots, varied types, EARTH as an attribute, and Synchro monsters that were flat-out amazing in both terms of playability and game-winning potential. From that very moment, Arm had fallen in love with them, and proceeded to spend god-knows-how-much on a basic playset of 3 Chimeras, Dragons, Beasts, and a bunch of other cards to work nicely with the overall concept of the archetype. And after a few duels with them, he found that deck to be amazing. But unlike the previous archetypes he ran, this one was different. This one actually had [i]GOOD[/i] support cards, as the packs went one. And with each new set, it always added more playability to the deck, being able to fully maximize it's potential. It was from that moment on, Arm became a Scrap Duelist. Morale of the story: Archetypes are as good as Konami wants them to be. Sometimes because of money, other times because they just want them to.[/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 [quote name='Dr. Cakey-chan' timestamp='1320889179' post='5629659'] As I explained before, because you like the [i]Witchblade[/i] anime. If every archetype has a "Discard/Banish X, Draw 2", why not just make a generic discard -> draw 2 card? [/quote]Yes. Bring back Pot of Greed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadenxAtemYAOI Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 If I use an Archetype at all, it is...well. None at all really. I noticed most decks I beat easily with my burn are of one archetype. They reason they can also be bad is because they can be very predictable. For example, most people tend to believe I only used lava golem for burn effect. Wrong. I mixed in other cards to throw off my opponent. I put Darkness Neosphere in my deck as well as Hamon. Some if not most decks built around a single archetype with cards only from it are bad for that reason, predictable. My specialty are decks that you commonly see but they have unique modifications that look borderline insane. For example, I created a Chaos Plantsworn Tengu deck. Doesn't make any sense, right? That's the idea. The chaos part was my side deck though which replaced the plants with blackwings. What the plantsworn would do is quite obvious but the way it did combos was unique because I ran DNA Surgery thus making them more compatible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 [quote name='Frex' timestamp='1320900091' post='5630279'] I dislike the fact that you have to mix to get powerful decks, too. In my case, I am player who prefers single-type Decks, or better known as "Solid" Decks, and I try my best to build a Deck that might be able to stand against the current meta; I have not succeeded yet. I currently use a Solid Machine Deck (in DN) mixing 2 archetypes, and it actually works pretty well, except when it comes to Synchros/Xyz, because of the limited number of Machine Synchros/Xyz available: For example, when I could Summon a Librarian, I must stick with Catastor, and there are no Level 6 Machine Synchros yet. The situation with Machine Xyzs is even worse: While Roach, Leviathan, Utopia, Chain, Emeral, etc. are around, I must stick with Zenmaines and Zenmaister, the former being harder to Summon because of the low number of Level 3 monsters I run. Naturally, If I add variety to the Extra Deck and replace Solidarity for other staple cards, the deck will become more competitive, but then I would be against my goal. [/quote] Have you ever tried Solid Warriors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Archtypes that I'm pro with:[list=1] [*]Volcanics [*]Watts [*]Ojamas [*]Phantom Beasts [*]Generation Fish [/list] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I remember the days when there wasn't archetypes for you to just throw into a deck for it to be good, and it actually took some strategy to build a good deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Warden Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 But then can archtypes like HEROs, and god only knows why the LS came into existance really. Archtypes, are fun, as they allow for interesting themes to run. But as been said, the imbalance of support across the board is what can make or break an archtype. For example, LS' ungodly Charge of the Light Brigade and Solar Recharge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shradow Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Archtypes I use that let me laught at today's meta: 1. Ancient Gears 2. Ojama 3. Gem-Knight 4. Naturia Archtype decks are only as good as you can make and use them. TR4Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 @Twilight: I have tried Solid Machine and Beast Decks, but not Warriors yet; I bet they are really good, because of Bushi and the decent Synchros they got. I agree with the above comment: Archetypes are as good as you build them: I have been trying a mixed version of the Solid Machine deck I mentioned, and so far the Solid one has performed better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brinolovania Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I've run Machinas for years, and they haven't failed me yet. Fortress is smexy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 [quote name='Frex' timestamp='1320947766' post='5630947'] @Twilight: I have tried Solid Machine and Beast Decks, but not Warriors yet; I bet they are really good, because of Bushi and the decent Synchros they got. [/quote] Bushi, Junk Synchron, TG Striker, Warrior Synchs for every level 5-8, etc. Yea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Berserker- Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Only archetypes I have used are D.D., Reptilianne and Monarch (does it count as an archetype if it doesn't have support?). I have to say I enjoy using them, but I also like using decks that are made of unrelated monsters, like Fish or WATER Horn targets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Archetypes are really just building blocks for decks. They're like an arm, or a leg, when they're appropriately done. Sometimes those appendages turn out to be a whole damn body, and other times they're a skeleton. An example of this is me and my Fableds, where I find a nice skeleton of: Cerb, Grimro, Krus x3 Ganashia, Chawa, Kushano x2 (PArtially thanks to Meta and Cake) Nozoochee x1 That's about 16 monsters,but the deck likes well over 20 monsters, so I usually add about 13 other monsters to put flesh on the skeleton, such as T.G. monsters, Doppel, Anu Piranha, etc. Then you just add staples for the important internal organs, and give them a little more arm or leg strength with techs, like Monster Reincarnation x1 =o Oh, and Synchros/Xyz are important clothing, whereas Fusions tend to be accesories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-so-Radiant Arin Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I only run 21 monsters in my Gishki Deck (12 actual monsters, 9 Rituals), and the rest are S/Ts. I have yet to lose with this Deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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