What do you think is in the next banlist?

[mido9]

Stratos is more of a power card than a consistency card,honestly,with bubbleman turning it into an instant R4.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

Stratos is more of a power card than a consistency card,honestly,with bubbleman turning it into an instant R4.

 

its both powerful and a card that adds consistency. cards shouldnt be both.

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

Wow, Monkey you're the dumbest fucking retard I've ever seen.

 

I don't have anything to add to this thread right now, I just felt that was necessary.

[Stan Alda]

its both powerful and a card that adds consistency. cards shouldnt be both.

I disagree. If anything, high-level cards need to be both powerful and consistent. Otherwise, what's the point in summoning them when you have marginally less powerful but more consistent cards?

[Northern Sage]

I disagree. If anything, high-level cards need to be both powerful and consistent. Otherwise, what's the point in summoning them when you have marginally less powerful but more consistent cards?

Your definition of "high-level cards" seems vague and strange. If you consider "cards that make an archetype good" as the definition it is way too broad.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

have you noticed that most searchers are both weak statwise and have more stringent requirements than stratos to be set off (usually either normal summon or sent to grave)? and the ones that have a lot of good targets and can search themselves are on the list? (sangan, TGU sorta, this one, witch of the black forest)? thats intentional. a searcher lets you add deck consistency at the cost of some raw power. most searchers are really shit statwise and eat up a summon or need to go to grave because thats a good balance for consistency. thats why you often have to get creative with them and use them for a synchro/xyz to help lessen that vulnerability.

 

stratos is different. for multiple reasons. 1) it can be searched out by 3 cards counting itself. thats more than most other cards, period. not searchers. in general. 2) it activates on normal or special. meaning you can summon him, get his effect then throw him to grave and bring him back and do it all again. with no restrictions. 3) it has another effect besides searching, albeit a rarely used one. meaning if youve somehow not managed to draw into it/rota/e-call until late game, its not a dead draw.

 

card design should be a balance between being powerful and being easy to get. good cards are one and maybe a little bit of the other (stardust is very powerful, and with starlight road, somewhat easy to get out. its a good card). this card is too much power for a searcher and too easy to get out and make the deck stupidly fast. stratos is the card to hit in HEROs, if theyre gonna be hit at all.

[guuu1234]

Just curious, what do you guys think about the state of cards. When stratos was first released, was it as bad as it was now? In terms of search, could it truly search many cards that could be used for devastating combos back then? I guess what I'm really asking is how do you guys think the release of new cards effect the state of older cards? Like 5/6 years ago (I think),  when stratos was released, I think the destiny engine (malicious, destiny draw, emergency teleport, krebons, etc.) was it's only real use. Now, that is what I THINK, so I may not be remembering right, and it was a long time ago anyway. Now, with the release of Xyz, the stratos/bubbleman combo is deadly (was NEVER a problem before Xyz iirc) and the same could be said for other cards. SO my question stands, how do you guys think the current (and future) state of the game will effect the banlist status of older cards.

[Agro]

Just curious, what do you guys think about the state of cards. When stratos was first released, was it as bad as it was now? In terms of search, could it truly search many cards that could be used for devastating combos back then? I guess what I'm really asking is how do you guys think the release of new cards effect the state of older cards? Like 5/6 years ago (I think),  when stratos was released, I think the destiny engine (malicious, destiny draw, emergency teleport, krebons, etc.) was it's only real use. Now, that is what I THINK, so I may not be remembering right, and it was a long time ago anyway. Now, with the release of Xyz, the stratos/bubbleman combo is deadly (was NEVER a problem before Xyz iirc) and the same could be said for other cards. SO my question stands, how do you guys think the current (and future) state of the game will effect the banlist status of older cards.

Airblade

 

Yeah, it was broke when it was released. It was limited after a month.

[Aerion Brightflame]

Stratos was limited before the D-Draw Engine. It was limited before the TCG got hold of it even. Same time as Gran-Mole being limited, if irc.

 

He was limited because One copy would search the Second, the second would search the third, and the third would pop two backrow, which would be game changing back when MST was limited.

 

It has gotten worse overtime really.

 

But as for the question: Yes, how the game changes will affect what stays on the banlist. Dark Hole being on such example of it getting unbanned.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Keep in mind that the main reason it was limited is because it could search copies of itself.

[Thomas★Zero]

Did I seriously just get told that Stratos is hard to draw into with 3 Searchers for it and that you have to "use up" resources on it?

Seriously? ._.

Miracle Fusion's not the problem, the consistency glue is. They have their own RotA, so having an 1800 beater with the potential to wipe an Opp's back row or just plain search isn't good design at all, and is pretty clearly the problem.

Tell me more about how they deserve this "main wind target for Great Tornado". Tell me more about how opening badly means the Shining isn't a problem card.

And your meta analysis idea was awful. So, by that logic, Red Gadget, Mermail - Abysstrite, Brotherhood of the Fire Fist - Tiger King, and Wind-Up Shark are ALL THE PROBLEM CARDS OF THEIR DECKS! BRILLIANT!

I also recall you saying they should he Bubbleman over Stratos last format.

EDIT: Yup, you argued for Bubbleman getting hit just so your pwecious Stwatos couwd wive.

forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/286918-elemental-hero-bubbleman/

IC back then for the bubbleman thing back then...

...but still what I was reffering to with the Stratos at one was to refer to that theirs normally a 5 out of 40 chance of drawing it or the searchers (Stratos @ 1 Rota @ 1 E-Call @2) or 7 if you include "A Hero lives" @ 2 meaning that it has a low percentage of being likely drawn or searched for during the first turn (12.5% for 5 and 17.5% for 7 out of 40 cards).

by itself it acts only as a + 1 for that time but for the continuous use of it, it would require you to continue bring it back to the field using various cards such as Ocean (which has a slow use of effect), Monster Reborn, COTH and POA as examples without any of these the card itself would have its effect only work at the one time it was summoned were with either search or destruction needs to be tactically used based on the use of your hand and field. Plus note that it can only wipe out back row equal to the number of additional HERO's you control, it can't do it just itself.

Also I did not call Miracle (which if set up for the graveyard is a +0) at one based on the Shining due to the meta analysis image, that was more so a friends idea of it, plus if Miracle was at 1 it would lead to HEROS needing to use Poly and Super which both act as -2 cards where Stratos is required here provided that bit of support to them (along with Polymerization already having support from KOTS as a searcher, which can be used with Sparkman to bring out shining flare wingman if need be).

Plus I never resorted to the summon/effect negation for this as well as how priority was removed for this topic until now (meaning if you summon it and someone Torrential Tribute on its summon, you can't get its effect to go off as their is no priority, as a no priority example).

Plus would anyone use Avian in their deck for that Wind/HERO Target for the Great Tornadoe to cut down the stats of opposing monsters if need be over Stratos, I think not (Unless it was a Rabbit HERO Deck).

Edit: plus on a side note for the Xyz comments about stratos, that's only due to the combos with A HERO lives were if that was put at 1, that wouldn't make Xyz in HERO's too much of a problem.

[Blake]

ITT: KingdomNeos doesn't understand the arguments presented and works on technicalities.

 

A deck does not inherently DESERVE a powerful searcher or a WIND target. Your entire post revolves around BUT THEY NEED STRATOS, which doesn't matter in the least.

 

All these HERO supports you think are broken/the problem and need to be hit if Stratos didn't enable them to be a problem.

[Just Crouton]

People go out of their way to summon Great Tornado?

[Strider Tigerwolf]

Neos, you're a decent guy, but I'm afraid that yugioh argument is just...well...that's BAD Heroes talking....

[ihop]

Stratos was limited before the D-Draw Engine. It was limited before the TCG got hold of it even. Same time as Gran-Mole being limited, if irc.

 

He was limited because One copy would search the Second, the second would search the third, and the third would pop two backrow, which would be game changing back when MST was limited.

 

It has gotten worse overtime really.

 

But as for the question: Yes, how the game changes will affect what stays on the banlist. Dark Hole being on such example of it getting unbanned.

 

Nah, it was around for 1 YCS where it was stupidly rare and everyone who had a playset topped, that was Airblade Turbo.

 

Anyway Stratos is banworthy just because you can get crazy plusses and it's true, it can be a power card or it can be a conistency card, but I doubt Konami would ban it.

[EmpoleMew]

The real Konami-like move would be to ban Stratos and print a TCG exclusive retrain in LTGY that's so beyond nerfed, it's unplayable.

 

It is technically the WIND booster pack after all.

[Thomas★Zero]

ITT: KingdomNeos doesn't understand the arguments presented and works on technicalities.
 
A deck does not inherently DESERVE a powerful searcher or a WIND target. Your entire post revolves around BUT THEY NEED STRATOS, which doesn't matter in the least.
 
All these HERO supports you think are broken/the problem and need to be hit if Stratos didn't enable them to be a problem.

Well A HERO Lives was first hit @2 due to the HERO Lives OTK decks which started out their abuse with Xyz's and Miracle Fusion just brings out 2500+ ATK Fusions (from reasonable to amazing effects) pretty much at a free cost if used right (a.k.a +0).

Plus saying a deck doesn't need a searcher is a bit of a lame excuse when you consider various other cards like Sangan, Angent of Mystery - Earth and all of the monsters that are listed in here for there own sections in this link here > http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Searcher

I know Stratos can be used either normal or special but like I said if we didn't have stuff I mentioned before it would just be + 1 during the time it was normal summoned. I think its fine at one (as a HERO staple card) but I agree with everyone else that its ridiculous if it were put at 2.

[Miror B]

The real Konami-like move would be to ban Stratos and print a TCG exclusive retrain in LTGY that's so beyond nerfed, it's unplayable.

 

It is technically the WIND booster pack after all.

No the real Konami move would be to ban Stratos then give them another Future Fusion

[Blake]

Well A HERO Lives was first hit @2 due to the HERO Lives OTK decks which started out their abuse with Xyz's and Miracle Fusion just brings out 2500+ ATK Fusions (from reasonable to amazing effects) pretty much at a free cost if used right (a.k.a +0).

Plus saying a deck doesn't need a searcher is a bit of a lame excuse when you consider various other cards like Sangan, Angent of Mystery - Earth and all of the monsters that are listed in here for there own sections in this link here > http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Searcher

I know Stratos can be used either normal or special but like I said if we didn't have stuff I mentioned before it would just be + 1 during the time it was normal summoned. I think its fine at one (as a HERO staple card) but I agree with everyone else that its ridiculous if it were put at 2.

AHL is a benign +0 without Stratos. "Konami did it so its right" is an awful excuse.

Now see, you're not understanding- if a searcher is way beyond good, they dot deserve it. They have their own RotA, and arguing that other, much less powerful searchers exist is a "lame" point that doesn't give you any traction.

It heroes get any hit, it should be Stratos. IT s the consistency and power card that enables every other card in the deck you think is "too good" of whatever.

[Thomas★Zero]

AHL is a benign +0 without Stratos. "Konami did it so its right" is an awful excuse.

Now see, you're not understanding- if a searcher is way beyond good, they dot deserve it. They have their own RotA, and arguing that other, much less powerful searchers exist is a "lame" point that doesn't give you any traction.

It heroes get any hit, it should be Stratos. IT s the consistency and power card that enables every other card in the deck you think is "too good" of whatever.

hmm hate to admit it but it seems as a fair point...

The real Konami-like move would be to ban Stratos and print a TCG exclusive retrain in LTGY that's so beyond nerfed, it's unplayable.
 
It is technically the WIND booster pack after all.

Something like this...

Elemental HERO Stratos Reverse
lv 4 Wind
Warrior/Effect
When this card is normal summoned or Special summoned add 1 "Elemental HERO" from your deck to your hand. The Effect of "Elemental HERO Stratos Reverse" can only be activated Once per turn.
ATK/1400 DEF/700

make it weaker, the search effect once a turn only, make it only go for E-HEROS only and take out the S/T Destruction which makes it decent but not as strong as the oringal Stratos if this went through.

[ihop]

hmm hate to admit it but it seems as a fair point...

Something like this...

Elemental HERO Stratos Reverse
lv 4 Wind
Warrior/Effect
When this card is normal summoned or Special summoned add 1 "Elemental HERO" from your deck to your hand. The Effect of "Elemental HERO Stratos Reverse" can only be activated Once per turn.
ATK/1400 DEF/700

make it weaker, the search effect once a turn only, make it only go for E-HEROS only and take out the S/T Destruction which makes it decent but not as strong as the oringal Stratos if this went through.

 

Still gets effect on SS which is the main reason why Stratos is more broken than all other searchers.

[Miror B]

Still gets effect on SS which is the main reason why Stratos is more broken than all other searchers.

It's more of the fact that it's a +1 search that has "Elemental HERO" in its name.

[ihop]

It's more of the fact that it's a +1 search that has "Elemental HERO" in its name.

 

Well if it didn't get the effect from Hero Lives, Reborn, Call, Voltic? etc. I don't think it'd be half as bad, just like Machina Gearframe which almost has better targets.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

One thing we might see is a bump for Book of Moon, unless konami is afraid of Empty Jar.

[Miror B]

One thing we might see is a bump for Book of Moon, unless konami is afraid of Empty Jar.

Book was limited for being an all around swiss army knife (inb4seven tools) and a Gladiator playtoy. It still serves that purpose. I doubt it'll come back.