The Xyz Mechanic

[Blake]

About a year ago, I posted a topic on this mechanic, daring to say it was more broken a concept than Synchros. The only consensus anyone seemed to reach was that Xyz were only good because of cards like Rabbit and Tour Guide existing, and that Xyz could only be called "broken" because of cards that currently existed. Yet... look at the game now. Decks that can Normal Summon 2 monsters of the same level in a turn via Monster Effects can efficiently function thanks to this mechanic, though most would inherently run out of advantage quickly without outside support.

 

A discussion on NAC, which had the gall to compare Naturia Synchros and Shi En to Utopia as a reasoning point, reminded me of this, and I decided it could be a nice, healthy discussion if handled properly here.

 

Here's my point in this: Xyz are much more generic than Synchros, often handle their own costs or give you a significant payoff that's generally worth the technical -1 or more nature of their summon, and have a stronger focus on controlling the board, as opposed to Synchros which serve as big beatsticks that have some effects to make them better, barring the absurd ones. Hell, it even feels like it rewards you for, basically, playing the game and happening to run multiple monsters of the same level, at least on paper.

 

I personally feel that the Xyz Mechanic is much more broken an idea than Synchros, but I can sort of understand some of the counter arguments.

 

That said, discuss the Xyz Mechanic itself, its impact on the game, etc.

[newhat]

There is at least one Xyz Monster of each Rank from 1 through 5 that can block its destruction from any source, which shows some of the design priorities of KONAMI.

[Miror B]

The idea itself is a bit more broken but I think they've done fine, bar a few random exceptions that are pretty much from the engines that summon them (Evolzars and Rabbit, Big Eye and Dragons, any decent Rank 3 and Tour Guide, you get the picture)

[Toffee.]

Xyzs also let you bypass added restrictions; Quillbolt Hedgehog/Plaguespreader/Chain Dog, for example, don't Banish themselves after being Summoned in their own ways, then used as Xyz Material.
Also Xyz monsters tend to have more fun effects: Emeral, Volcasaurus, etc

So Xyzs are more stable and an overall solid design because they work off a gimmicky "ammo"-concept. So while some effects seem pretty busted, your still only going to be using it like, what, twice?
(I mean Xyzs as a whole, and not the ridiculous ones like Carrier)
.....
Or something like that.

[ihop]

The Xyz mechanic is definitely more broken than the synchro mechanic but only because there are cards like Tourguide that make it a +0. If every Xyz was a -1 it wouldn't be nearly as bad, not to mention there are much better Synchros than Xyz.

[Thomas★Zero]

So Xyzs are more stable and an overall solid design because they work off a gimmicky "ammo"-concept.

Its funny how its literal with gagaga Cowboy where it use's a material to deal 800 damage when its in defence position.

OT: I agree on the idea that Xyz seems more staple than synchros but I don't think their considerably broken due to the limited number of times a effect can be used, their only more considered since they don't need a special monster like a tuner to be summoned like what synchros need. Sure their are some powerful Xyz like Number 16 and 11 which can change the field but that's similar to some of the synchros we have as well like what Stardust used to be as well as Black Rose and all the synchros used in six sam.

[Zazubat]

I never got into the whole Synchro thing, and I always find it hard to use them effectively, and mainly because you need such a specfic number of Levels. In most modern decks you can simply use two already pretty useful cards to get out good Xyz Monsters. The game is always changing and adapting to it, and I think it can get a lot worse than it has already, so I find it fine right now.

[Sora1499]

I enjoy playing synchro-based decks a lot more than Xyz-based decks. In the latter, they usually only focus on 1, maybe 2, ranks to go for, limiting your options and making the deck more predictable. Playing the same extra deck cardpool of 5-6 cards gets very repetitive and boring after a while. Whereas with synchros, they can usually go for any level under the sun, so you generally have more skillful options to go for, thereby making the deck less predictable and more fun to use. I think that, in comparison, the Xyz mechanic is rather bland.

[Zazubat]

I enjoy playing synchro-based decks a lot more than Xyz-based decks. In the latter, they usually only focus on 1, maybe 2, ranks to go for, limiting your options and making the deck more predictable. Playing the same extra deck cardpool of 5-6 cards gets very repetitive and boring after a while. Whereas with synchros, they can usually go for any level under the sun, so you generally have more skillful options to go for, thereby making the deck less predictable and more fun to use. I think that, in comparison, the Xyz mechanic is rather bland.

I wouldn't call detaching bland, I mean Synchro Monsters are just like Tributes from the extra with a special monster and a special requirement. Here, you still use the cards, and if you use them effectivly, you can put cards in to your grave when you want it. Though there's more strategy in Synchros, I agree there.

[Sora1499]

[quote name="Zaziuma" post="6153308" timestamp="1362140569"]I wouldn't call detaching bland, I mean Synchro Monsters are just like Tributes from the extra with a special monster and a special requirement. Here, you still use the cards, and if you use them effectivly, you can put cards in to your grave when you want it. Though there's more strategy in Synchros, I agree there.[/quote] It's not the detaching that's bland, it's how you summon them. "Timmy has 2 level 4 monsters and a level 3 monster on the field, I wonder what he will do next!" versus "Timmy has a level 3 tuner, a level 3 non-tuner, and a level 4 on the field. I genuinely wonder what he will do next!"

[Zazubat]

It's not the detaching that's bland, it's how you summon them. "Timmy has 2 level 4 monsters and a level 3 monster on the field, I wonder what he will do next!" versus "Timmy has a level 3 tuner, a level 3 non-tuner, and a level 4 on the field. I genuinely wonder what he will do next!"

Well you're playing a card game, it's pretty bland as it is.

[Azuh]

It's not the detaching that's bland, it's how you summon them. "Timmy has 2 level 4 monsters and a level 3 monster on the field, I wonder what he will do next!" versus "Timmy has a level 3 tuner, a level 3 non-tuner, and a level 4 on the field. I genuinely wonder what he will do next!"

Timmy is going to fuck shit up.

that's what he's going to do

[Resident Fascist]

It's not the detaching that's bland, it's how you summon them. "Timmy has 2 level 4 monsters and a level 3 monster on the field, I wonder what he will do next!" versus "Timmy has a level 3 tuner, a level 3 non-tuner, and a level 4 on the field. I genuinely wonder what he will do next!"

 

 

OT: I like Synchros more, but that's my inner Stardust fanboy coming free there.

[Synchronized]

The game has to evolve in order to keep going.  Synchros were (and still are, although they're not as relevant and won't be for another half a format, imo) extremely powerful and many of them broken-great (Dark Strike Fighter, Scrap Dragon, etc.) for little to no cost.  As the packs continued to come out, Synchros got easier and easier to Summon, when you tihink about the fact that we went from Water Spirit/Junk Synchron/Tune Warrior to Glow-Up/Debris/Rose Warrior, it's easy to think about how much the power creep has grown.

 

That being said with Xyz, it could be a lot worse.  While there are plenty of Xyz that more than pay for themselves and the mechanic is a bit off, many of them don't have inherently broken effects.  85% of the generic Xyz lack the ability to 'turn a game around' just like that, which is more than I can say about DSF, Scrap Dragon, and even Stardust Dragon to an extent.  Sure, stuff like Laggia/Dolkka/Shock Master are very, very good (the latter perhaps banworthy), but Xyz as a whole are a bit more tame.

[Legend Zero]

Xyz might not remain more generic for long. All the new Synchros are generic and konami may try to go for a black vs white showdown. (inb4 racist)

To be honest, the whole problem (for me) is how hard konami pushed this mechanic even after tearing down the Synchro era they had managed to build.

[Expelsword]

I really don't want to start a race riot in this topic, so I'll just throw my hat in with "Yuma, I'm really happy for you, and I'mma let you finish, but Stardust Dragon had one of the best alternate forms of all time, of ALL TIME".

[Northern Sage]

Xyz monsters have generally easier conditions and way more possibilities to manipulate the ability to Summon.

[newhat]

The monsters that are designed to speed out Xyz Monsters have other uses (Evilswarm Mandragora, for instance), unlike a lot of Tuners that are useless except for Synchros, and too slow for that purpose (e.g. the Mill-Beast and Banish-Beast Tuners).

[Sleepy]

Xyzs are an easier to break mechanic because unlike Synchros, which require you to build decks around small but quick monsters, Xyzs sometimes require big materials in multiples; which requires more powercreep. Well, at least in theory if it follows the "higher Level = stronger monster" pattern the game is supposed to have, but is throwing out the window to make higher Ranks viable.

 

Yugioh's mechanics keep evolving and getting more generic and easy:

Rituals: Need of generic Tributes + specific catalist(Ritual Spell). Inconsistent to draw on their own.

Fusions: Need of specific Materials + specific catalist(Polymerization). Extra Deck created for them to not be as ridiculous.

Synchros: Need generic Materials + generic catalist(Tuner) that is already incorporated into the Materials. Goes to the Extra Deck, too.

Xyzs: Need generic Materials + no catalist at all. Goes to the Extra Deck, too.

 

Xyzs themselves have actually been handled pretty well for the most part. Their stats are usually not as high, and their effects are mostly more control oriented, which means there's interaction between players. What breaks this format, and this generation as a whole by that matter, is what the Main Deck pieces are able to do. Konami decided Synchros/Xyzs were gonna have the whole game revolve around them, so spam decks that can bring them out are everywhere.

 

Bother mechanics are more or less equally versatile if you insert effects into the mix. Inzektors can make Rank 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 if they so wish, even though most of their cards are Level 3. As the pure mechanics go, Synchros give you more to choose from since you can even use a Synchro for other Synchros, resulting in interesting plays, unlike with Xyzs, whose's only ways of evolving are with straight up evolutions of them, or a catalist Spell (Varian's Force)

 

 

Though, needing a Tuner makes it easy to see what key piece needs to be supported for the mechanic to be relevant.

[Agro]

Synchros were extremely powerful and many of them broken-great (Dark Strike Fighter, Scrap Dragon, etc.) for little to no cost.

I can't believeyou just tried put Dark Strike Fighter to Scrap Dragon in the same category.

 

Xyz might not remain more generic for long. All the new Synchros are generic and konami may try to go for a black vs white showdown. (inb4 racist)

To be honest, the whole problem (for me) is how hard konami pushed this mechanic even after tearing down the Synchro era they had managed to build.

That's the thing about Xyz. If you eliminate all other cards released from Extreme Victory and onward... they really aren't as big a problem as everyone makes them to be. It's the amount of poorly designed support they made for Xyz that causes them to be "more broken".

[Miror B]

The Xyz mechanic is definitely more broken than the synchro mechanic but only because there are cards like Tourguide that make it a +0.

+0 isn't the problem or Junk Synchron would be broken.

[Sora1499]

+0 isn't the problem or Junk Synchron would be broken.

 

Why are you comparing a card that you can run 2 of as an engine and splash it in virtually any deck to a card that requires you to make a build to cater for it?  I'm not seeing the parallel.

[Miror B]

 

+0 isn't the problem or Junk Synchron would be broken.

 

Why are you comparing a card that you can run 2 of as an engine and splash it in virtually any deck to a card that requires you to make a build to cater for it?  I'm not seeing the parallel.

Where did I say Tour Guide and Junk Synchron are comparable?

I said the +0 wasn't the problem.