[OCG] September 2013 Banlist.

[El Majishan]

Trap Stun isn't nearly as quick or impactful as Heavy Storm is. It doesn't gain you any card advantage (actually the opposite) and doesn't stop absolutely everything they have permanently. It doesn't prevent them from overextending and clogs up your own deck while diluting from the goal it wishes to achieve. The same goes for decks playing 3 MST + other backrow removal. These cards are just 1-for-1 spells that don't actually forward your game plan and can be absolutely awful when you put too many of them in one deck. Unless you like just blowing up all their backrow while doing nothing.

 

That's the point, it not so one sided and out of no where as Heavy Storm that it can win you a game as soon as it's played (also Trap Stun is usually a 1 for 1 when chained to a card then it provides blanket trap protection). Trap Stun does not give a free pass like Heavy Storm because a player is still able to use other back row cards (Quick Plays) in order to protect themselves. Also 1 for 1 cards do forward you game plan because they get rid of threats...making it easier for your push. Heavy Storm just gives you the game then an there most of the time it is played.

[Zincoshine]

Lol Its only to be able to use 6 dragon rulers i a deck Which is a cool idea

but where does it say this? any link?

 

edit: oh nvm i found it now......

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

No, Trap Stun is not a 1-for-1 and you're pretty stupid to say that it is. It's in the card's text that it's a 0-for-1.

And that's just it. Trap Stun is bad, and doesn't even punish your opponent for overextending. Clearly, players don't have an issue with having a way to punish other players for playing too many monsters, and this is a good part of a skilled game. But suddenly, when it's about S/Ts, you want to throw a hissy fit when someone can punish you for playing too many. That's idiocy at its core.

[El Majishan]

That's because Heavy is seen primarly as an OTK enabler, and not as what it actually is, which is a tool to help punish overexertion. Stun does not do that, it's closer to Trunade in that regard than to Heavy. (Loose comparason I know, but it suits it's purpose)

 

Stun and Heavy do different things fundamently. One removes backrow as an element for one turn, allowing plays to be easier, and one punishes players who run to much backrow without considering protection, and again as Chris says, it's a very skill intensive card.

 

Exactly, it's an OTK enabler. If the game was not as stupid as it is I would be all for Heavy staying at 1, but due to the fact it can lead to such stupid plays it has become a problem,

[Aerion Brightflame]

Exactly, it's an OTK enabler. If the game was not as stupid as it is I would be all for Heavy staying at 1, but due to the fact it can lead to such stupid plays it has become a problem,

And explain to me why it's not the fault of the OTK that you got OTK'd?

 

Banning a healthy card when the game is a stupid way just makes the game more stupid.

 

Don't hit OTK's by hitting Heavy, Hit the OTK's instead.

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

And explain to me why it's not the fault of the OTK that you got OTK'd?
 
Banning a healthy card when the game is a stupid way just makes the game more stupid.
 
Don't hit OTK's by hitting Heavy, Hit the OTK's instead.

This.

A fucking thousand times, drill this into your thick skull.

[El Majishan]

No, Trap Stun is not a 1-for-1 and you're pretty stupid to say that it is. It's in the card's text that it's a 0-for-1.

And that's just it. Trap Stun is bad, and doesn't even punish your opponent for overextending. Clearly, players don't have an issue with having a way to punish other players for playing too many monsters, and this is a good part of a skilled game. But suddenly, when it's about S/Ts, you want to throw a hissy fit when someone can punish you for playing too many. That's idiocy at its core.

 

If you activate a trap, then I respond with Trap Stun, how is that not me trading one of my cards for one of yours, aka, a 1 for 1? While the text may say its a 0 for 1, it used correctly, ie. chaining, it can easily be a 1 for 1...stop being stupid.

 

The reason people don't have an issue with punishing a player for playing too many monsters in because due to the current state of the game where it's not uncommon to put more than 8000 damage on board we NEED ways to keep them in check or OTKs would be a bigger problem than they are now. 

[DarkWithin9867]

There's no call for that; this is a civil discussion. And it's easier for Konami to hit one card than to hit several from all different archetypes to remove OTKs from existence.

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

If you activate a trap, then I respond with Trap Stun, how is that not me trading one of my cards for one of yours, aka, a 1 for 1? While the text may say its a 0 for 1, it used correctly, ie. chaining, it can easily be a 1 for 1...stop being stupid.
 
The reason people don't have an issue with punishing a player for playing too many monsters in because due to the current state of the game where it's not uncommon to put more than 8000 damage on board we NEED ways to keep them in check or OTKs would be a bigger problem than they are now. 

So, you want to leave yourself at a shitty position against Solemns? Ok then.

You realise that having tools to punish overextension is what's always been a great skill factor, right? We've almost always had Dark Hole around and always had Torrential around, and they've been brilliant balancing factors and often been cards that separate good and bad players very effectively. Guess fucking what, Heavy's done the same thing.

[Eury]

Heavy Storm isn't a problem, OTKs are a problem. And most OTKs absolutely need 1 card, so if you take away that card, the OTK is gone. Blaze Fenix for example. Take that away and the Harpie Dancer FTK doesn't exist anymore. Storm doesn't need to go anywhere, its fine where it is.

[El Majishan]

And explain to me why it's not the fault of the OTK that you got OTK'd?

 

Banning a healthy card when the game is a stupid way just makes the game more stupid.

 

Don't hit OTK's by hitting Heavy, Hit the OTK's instead.

 

Sure, then they release new OTKs mid format and everyone is butt hurt about it.

[DarkWithin9867]

I find it amusing that we're all fighting over ONE change on what MAY POSSIBLY be the new ban list. It's not set in stone,

And even then, hitting the key card for OTKs from each archetype punishes more than just OTK decks.

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

Sure, then they release new OTKs mid format and everyone is butt hurt about it.

This is the problem with the current state of yugioh design though, and irrelevant to a banlist discussion you inane arse.

[Aerion Brightflame]

Sure, then they release new OTKs mid format and everyone is butt hurt about it.

So what if they are butt hurt? People do that regardless. They'd get butt hurt over a Kuriboh of all things.

 

It does not change that the OTK's are at fault, not heavy. Heavy will never be the fault.

I find it amusing that we're all fighting over ONE change on what MAY POSSIBLY be the new ban list. It's not set in stone,

And even then, hitting the key card for OTKs from each archetype punishes more than just OTK decks.

 

And banning Future Fusion hurt decks that actually cared for summoning the monster from it.

 

I can't really think of much on the Banned list that weren't used in other places by someone.

 

Decks always get caught in the crossfire by a banlist, it happens, and can't be avoided. If making the game more skillful by removing consitent OTK's hurts a crap tonne of decks, tough. It will be better for in at the end.

[El Majishan]

So, you want to leave yourself at a shitty position against Solemns? Ok then.

You realise that having tools to punish overextension is what's always been a great skill factor, right? We've almost always had Dark Hole around and always had Torrential around, and they've been brilliant balancing factors and often been cards that separate good and bad players very effectively. Guess fucking what, Heavy's done the same thing.

 

If I play Trap Stun and you have Solemn set, chances are you're going to play the Solemn, so it's still a 1 for 1.

 

The difference is, Dark Hole and TT do not facilitate OTKs like Heavy Storm does and you know that. As I said, if the game was not the way it is, I would be all for Heavy Storm staying at 1, but since it is in such a shitty state, and will continue to be in such a shitty state, because Konami loves to release OTK machines since they know it will sell I rather have my back row protecting me than getting Heavy'd then OTK or put in a position where I can't recover.    

This is the problem with the current state of yugioh design though, and irrelevant to a banlist discussion you inane arse.

 

Stop being an angry fucktard, I'm sure you can have a discussion with resorting to name calling like 12 year old school girl.

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

If I play Trap Stun and you have Solemn set, chances are you're going to play the Solemn, so it's still a 1 for 1.
 
The difference is, Dark Hole and TT do not facilitate OTKs like Heavy Storm does and you know that. As I said, if the game was not the way it is, I would be all for Heavy Storm staying at 1, but since it is in such a shitty state, and will continue to be in such a shitty state, because Konami loves to release OTK machines since they know it will sell I rather have my back row protecting me than getting Heavy'd then OTK or put in a position where I can't recover.    


 
Stop being an angry fucktard, I'm sure you can have a discussion with resorting to name calling like 12 year old school girl.

Even with a heavy amount of decks with potential to OTK, I'd still be happier with Heavy Storm in the format. It's still a skillful card.

And if you're going to try to call me angry and such, don't be a hypocrite about it. lol

[Aerion Brightflame]

If I play Trap Stun and you have Solemn set, chances are you're going to play the Solemn, so it's still a 1 for 1.

 

The difference is, Dark Hole and TT do not facilitate OTKs like Heavy Storm does and you know that. As I said, if the game was not the way it is, I would be all for Heavy Storm staying at 1, but since it is in such a shitty state, and will continue to be in such a shitty state, because Konami loves to release OTK machines since they know it will sell I rather have my back row protecting me than getting Heavy'd then OTK or put in a position where I can't recover.    

Sorry, how exactly does Solemn Warning counter your Trap Stun? If your opponent had that much backrow, and you were going for an OTK, you wouldn't wait to use it for risk of getting Warning'd.

 

Both of those Encourage OTK's technically. You clear your opponents field of monsters, meaning there is less for you to actually get past to get the OTK. But, they are also used against OTK's, and to punish over exention.

 

Heavy does the exact same thing. Just a different type of card, apparently makes it worse.

 

If you're that paranoid about losing your backrow to Heavy and getting otk'd, then run Hand-Traps as well as backrow, and don't put your eggs all in one basket.

 

Also kindly point out the OTK engine of JOTL and SHSP? They are slowing the game down with the new releases.

 

 

Stop being an angry fucktard, I'm sure you can have a discussion with resorting to name calling like 12 year old school girl.

 

He's not angry. I think it's more that Swearing is a more effective way of getting points across to the idiots he views the vast majority of people here as. This seems... mild for his standards.

[DarkWithin9867]

Stop being an angry fucktard, I'm sure you can have a discussion with resorting to name calling like 12 year old school girl.

Name calling on either end isn't helping. You're just going to make yourself look bad if you retaliate.

The point is, Heavy is hit, regardless of the reasons. I don't approve of the reason personally, but I don't work at Konami. I approve of the action itself because I feel the card offsets the balance of the game unnecessarily.

It's possible to state your opinion without attacking anyone who has a different one, you guys.

[Legend Zero]

Isn't it easy to fake that konami site list by editing the html? Like, I think YCM is the only forum I've seen taking it seriously.

[Eury]

Name calling on either end isn't helping. You're just going to make yourself look bad if you retaliate.

The point is, Heavy is hit, regardless of the reasons. I don't approve of the reason personally, but I don't work at Konami. I approve of the action itself because I feel the card offsets the balance of the game unnecessarily.

It's possible to state your opinion without attacking anyone who has a different one, you guys.

 

Heavy didn't get hit, the list is fake. The real list comes out officially on the 20th, and will probably be leaked on the 17th or 18th. 

[DarkWithin9867]

(Fail, ignore)

[El Majishan]

Sorry, how exactly does Solemn Warning counter your Trap Stun? If your opponent had that much backrow, and you were going for an OTK, you wouldn't wait to use it for risk of getting Warning'd.

 

Both of those Encourage OTK's technically. You clear your opponents field of monsters, meaning there is less for you to actually get past to get the OTK. But, they are also used against OTK's, and to punish over exention.

 

Heavy does the exact same thing. Just a different type of card, apparently makes it worse.

 

If you're that paranoid about losing your backrow to Heavy and getting otk'd, then run Hand-Traps as well as backrow, and don't put your eggs all in one basket.

 

Also kindly point out the OTK engine of JOTL and SHSP? They are slowing the game down with the new releases.

 

He said Solemns...usually when people are talking about Warning, they say Warning...

 

Yes, Hole and TT can facilitate an OTK by opening you up to direct damage, but Heavy Storm is worst because it gets rid any unknown factor except for hand traps. 

 

Also just because two new sets were decent does not mean anything in a game flooded with already present OTK engines and other broken stuff.  

[DarkWithin9867]

Heavy didn't get hit, the list is fake. The real list comes out officially on the 20th, and will probably be leaked on the 17th or 18th.

You don't know this for sure. Who knows.

I wouldn't put it past Konami to ban Heavy if they're trying to slow stuff down. Sounds exactly like something they'd do.

[Eury]

You don't know this for sure. Who knows.

I wouldn't put it past Konami to ban Heavy if they're trying to slow stuff down. Sounds exactly like something they'd do.

 

Um, everyone knows this for sure. It was confirmed fake. Everyone knows it was photoshopped or edited with the html whatever. That was proven. 

[DarkWithin9867]

Um, everyone knows this for sure. It was confirmed fake. Everyone knows it was photoshopped or edited with the html whatever. That was proven.

I wasn't aware of that.