April 2014 Banlist Speculation Thread

[Daigusto Sphreez]

But the question is: Do these decks truly deserve to have that option? Because Kings and Fists can run perfectly fine without Rekindling, they just lose a big degenerate factor that made them a huge deck. Lavals don't even deserve to exist, just like how Gishki don't. They're only used for doing degenerate stuff as their sole purpose and that's it. Hazy Flames can still function without the option of Rekindling being there, so that's also perfectly fine.

Also I don't think you exactly know what push means. Push means that Konami wants them to do well, mainly because a set of cards is new and that would mean that sales go up. As a result, Konami are not pushing 3 of the 4 archetypes you mentioned. Fists, Kings and Lavals have all had their product cycle finished, meaning that Konami cannot make any more profit off of them 9/10 so it's time to begin fixing them. So really, Hazy Flames is the only immediate archetype they're attempting to push that utilizes Rekindling. There's nothing wrong with hitting Rekindling now.

 

Kings and Fists could still run I guess, but it still cripples the attribute as a whole. Regardless of whether you want it banned or not, I just see it as being very unlikely from Konami's perspective. Hazy Flames can function without Rekindling, but not very well. With Hydra's release being another Rekindling target banning the card would be so contradictory. Hazy's want rekindling as a second option when their initial play falls flat (it usually will since the metagame is so aggressive). I completely disagree that gishki's shouldn't exist. They gain the card advantage that the ridiculous cost of ritual summoning requires, thus making them playable. Rituals are laughable at the best of times so they need to gain advantage to be usable, and if you can repel the first gishki monsters they will usually run out of steam. 

 

Most fire archetypes don't have too many cards coming out so maybe I misconstrued the meaning a little, although Konami must want these archetypes to do well since they rarely get hit. 

[Dog King]

Im really doubitng any of the tier 1 or 2 decks atm will be hit hard, they will probably be hit slightly but not that they wouldnt be tier 1 or 2 anymore because even after 6 months konami didnt hit dino rabbit, inzektor or windup and left them for another format.

[Blake]

Kings and Fists could still run I guess, but it still cripples the attribute as a whole. Regardless of whether you want it banned or not, I just see it as being very unlikely from Konami's perspective. Hazy Flames can function without Rekindling, but not very well. With Hydra's release being another Rekindling target banning the card would be so contradictory. Hazy's want rekindling as a second option when their initial play falls flat (it usually will since the metagame is so aggressive). I completely disagree that gishki's shouldn't exist. They gain the card advantage that the ridiculous cost of ritual summoning requires, thus making them playable. Rituals are laughable at the best of times so they need to gain advantage to be usable, and if you can repel the first gishki monsters they will usually run out of steam. 

 

Most fire archetypes don't have too many cards coming out so maybe I misconstrued the meaning a little, although Konami must want these archetypes to do well since they rarely get hit. 

Do you even know how gishki work?

 

There is no "repelling the first few". They either Loop 2 Zealgigas and OTK you with them + Gustav, or they loop their Level 6s and FTK/effectively FTK you.

[Daigusto Sphreez]

Do you even know how gishki work?

 

There is no "repelling the first few". They either Loop 2 Zealgigas and OTK you with them + Gustav, or they loop their Level 6s and FTK/effectively FTK you.

 

Do you even know how backrow works?

They have no inbuilt protection, thus not overpowered in the slightest.

 

If OTK'ing is your blight, Cyber Dragons are the ones you should be complaining about. 

[Althemia]

Do you even know how backrow works?
They have no inbuilt protection, thus not overpowered in the slightest.
 
If OTK'ing is your blight, Cyber Dragons are the ones you should be complaining about.

FTK stands for "First Turn Kill." On the first turn of the duel, your opponent has no backrow. So wow, no inbuilt protection against no cards!

[Blake]

Do you even know how backrow works?

They have no inbuilt protection, thus not overpowered in the slightest.

 

If OTK'ing is your blight, Cyber Dragons are the ones you should be complaining about. 

ITT: You'll always have backrow.

ITT: Counterability is a valid argument

 

Not to mention what Koko said.

 

The fact that they have no protection doesn't make them less powerful. It's a 3200 that draws 1 and potentially spins another without targetting. A card that decks you out. A card that rapes your hand so you start with nothing. Inbuilt protection doesn't matter because the very Ritual Spell they use recycles them. The only actual hard out to Gishki is Bottomless, and that's at 1.

 

Like, you don't even seem to understand banlist logic, design logic, or even basic Yugioh logic.

 

Seriously, just stop posting. Your posts here are almost as bad as your posts in RC.

[Daigusto Sphreez]

FTK stands for "First Turn Kill." On the first turn of the duel, your opponent has no backrow. So wow, no inbuilt protection against no cards!

 

You can't attack if your going first on the first turn.

If your going second, you opponent has had time to set backrow. 

[Althemia]

You can't attack if your going first on the first turn.
If your going second, you opponent has had time to set backrow.

Sigh... I didn't even know Gishki declared attacks. They usually just knocked all of the cards out of your opponent's hand or bled their entire deck. Sorry, completely forgot attacking.

[Canadian]

I just want to make a note that this topic is for the TCG and not the OCG. Since we're currently discussing FTKs and whatnot, I don't want the new starting hand size to be a factor when discussing archetypes that try to FTK your opponent. Since we don't even know if that rule will be implemented in the TCG. Although it may alleviate some of the power that the archetypes have by dropping their consistency (from 6 cards to 5), it does not solve the problem that the decks are degenerate and only exist to do unfair things with minimal player interaction.

 

So decks like Gishki loop, Exodia FTK, and even Infernity for the matter shouldn't be excluded from list predictions simply because of the rule change that might not even affect the TCG at all.

[Daigusto Sphreez]

ITT: You'll always have backrow.

ITT: Counterability is a valid argument

 

Not to mention what Koko said.

 

The fact that they have no protection doesn't make them less powerful. It's a 3200 that draws 1 and potentially spins another without targetting. A card that decks you out. A card that rapes your hand so you start with nothing. Inbuilt protection doesn't matter because the very Ritual Spell they use recycles them. The only actual hard out to Gishki is Bottomless, and that's at 1.

 

Like, you don't even seem to understand banlist logic, design logic, or even basic Yugioh logic.

 

Seriously, just stop posting. Your posts here are almost as bad as your posts in RC.

 

Level 6 Gishki's are unfair if you open up well. That doesn't make Gishki's a bad archetype as a whole. Rank/level  8 and Rank/level 10 variants really aren't that unfair.

Zielgigas can be compulsed, fiendish chained, d-prisoned, solemn'd, bottomlessed, and they all hurt to a certain extent. Rank 10 variants need to attack to get the damage for a OTK with gustav max, they won't usually get that off successfully. 

 

You seem keen to make this personal, what is so terrible about my posts in RC? I'm intrigued as to which ones you are referring to.

I do apologize if I'm not allowed to have an opinion, and if I like decks that you just so happen to be bludgeoning with your apparent "Yugioh logic".

[Wildflame]

Well, bringing M7 back to 3 was like saying "here you go boys, you can hand loop again now", so that pretty much settled that they don't care about Hierogishki. They literally brought the deck back to life.

 

Also, Mind Augus FTK is dead, and Zielgigas OTK, while strong, it's pretty fragile.

[Slinky]

He is probably most usable to his full potential in Heros though. 

 

Aside from that, I'd quite like rekindling to not be banned, maybe semi-limited but not beyond that. It wouldn't just damage an archetype, it would hurt practically every fire-deck in existence. 

 

It needs to be banned. Seriously, why should 1 card survive? Especially when said card Summons /5/ monsters at once. It can literally be a 1 card Quasar. And that isn't okay, no matter how you sprinkle the gravy.

[Slinky]

Level 6 Gishki's are unfair if you open up well. That doesn't make Gishki's a bad archetype as a whole. Rank/level  8 and Rank/level 10 variants really aren't that unfair.

Zielgigas can be compulsed, fiendish chained, d-prisoned, solemn'd, bottomlessed, and they all hurt to a certain extent. Rank 10 variants need to attack to get the damage for a OTK with gustav max, they won't usually get that off successfully. 

 

You seem keen to make this personal, what is so terrible about my posts in RC? I'm intrigued as to which ones you are referring to.

I do apologize if I'm not allowed to have an opinion, and if I like decks that you just so happen to be bludgeoning with your apparent "Yugioh logic".

 

Uh.. they don't need to attack.. at all. What part of "loop" do you not understand? Its continually recycling the Zealgigas.

Furthermore, Counters to a card are never legitimate arguements. UNLESS SAID COUNTER IS READILY AVAILABLE AT ALL TIMES. IE: in the Extra Deck. If counters WERE a legitimate arguement, we wouldn't have a banlist. Because Raigeki/Harpie's Feather Duster could be Magic Jammer'd or Dark Bribe'd. Chaos Emperor Dragon could be Black Horn'd or Effect Veiler'd.

 

So please, if you have nothing useful to contribute, don't bother posting in here. The more experienced players here /know/ what decks are capabe of, and how they function. Knowledge that you are clearly lacking.

 

As for more on topic. Konami doesn't just hit cards that are degenerate or whats topping. They hit whats more common. For example, 80% of a tournament is Aliens, and the other 20% is some other deck, like Blackwings or something. Now lets say, the Blackwing decks are whats winning the tournaments week after week, but the deck ratio remains the same. Guess what's getting a larger hit? Not the blackwings, because Konami said in an article on their blog (somewhere, I don't have the exact link on me right now), they are trying to promote deck variety, so when a deck starts getting too popular, they shrink it down a little. Of course, this kind of scenario doesn't pop up too often, as the most commonly run decks are generally the meta decks. But its just food for thought.

[Daigusto Sphreez]

Uh.. they don't need to attack.. at all. What part of "loop" do you not understand? Its continually recycling the Zealgigas.

Furthermore, Counters to a card are never legitimate arguements. UNLESS SAID COUNTER IS READILY AVAILABLE AT ALL TIMES. IE: in the Extra Deck. If counters WERE a legitimate arguement, we wouldn't have a banlist. Because Raigeki/Harpie's Feather Duster could be Magic Jammer'd or Dark Bribe'd. Chaos Emperor Dragon could be Black Horn'd or Effect Veiler'd.

 

So please, if you have nothing useful to contribute, don't bother posting in here. The more experienced players here /know/ what decks are capabe of, and how they function. Knowledge that you are clearly lacking.

 

As for more on topic. Konami doesn't just hit cards that are degenerate or whats topping. They hit whats more common. For example, 80% of a tournament is Aliens, and the other 20% is some other deck, like Blackwings or something. Now lets say, the Blackwing decks are whats winning the tournaments week after week, but the deck ratio remains the same. Guess what's getting a larger hit? Not the blackwings, because Konami said in an article on their blog (somewhere, I don't have the exact link on me right now), they are trying to promote deck variety, so when a deck starts getting too popular, they shrink it down a little. Of course, this kind of scenario doesn't pop up too often, as the most commonly run decks are generally the meta decks. But its just food for thought.

 

I play Gishki's religiously so I'm quite fed up of the patronizing responses I'm getting. Zielgigas cannot loop infinitely. Aquamirror adds the monster back to your hand (that's assuming it didn't get banished) but it doesn't add the spell card. You don't draw into Salvage and Gishki Shadow every time you need to. And counters are a legitimate option, because monsters with no inbuilt protection have FAR more counters than Raigeki/Harpie's Feather Duster, and those counters are played more commonly in most decks. Yes you can run trap stun, or forbidden lance, but running multiples of these cards makes the decks summoning power far less consistent. 

 

I've played Zielgigas Gishki for longer than I can remember, and they really aren't as infallible as you seem to suggest. Even Wildflame above your post said the OTK is pretty fragile but you still seem content on voicing your salty opinion, which is probably rooted in your own losses against the deck. 

 

I know Konami doesn't just hit cards that are degenerate, many degenerate cards are still left unhit after all. The fact that rekindling hasn't been hit already and is popular should be giving you food for thought if anything. 

[Slinky]

I didn't say it was infallible. They certainly are beatable. And fragility has nothing to do with it. The Wind-Up Hunter loop was pretty fragile, and that got killed.

 

Your original point was, they need to attack. Which is flat out false. Because Zealgigas pushes the Gustaphs back into the deck, to which you continue looping. Nearly every Gishki ritual has some sort of loop that really screws over the opponent. Gustkraken was Gishki Hierati to abuse hand loops(which proved to be even more effective than the Wind-Up loop). Mind Augus created really large turns and you never decked out. Tetraogre can loop into an opposing deck-out, and Zealgigas burn loops. Every single one is fragile, yet Augus and Gustkraken got hit.

 

And that last part wasn't even at you, it was in general

 

And guess what? "You don't draw Shadow/Salvage whenever you need it". Reverse that logic to the "counters" you are claiming. And you'll see the point. 

 

If someone figured out a way to loop Number 11: Big Eye, would you clamor for it to be hit? Even if it was "fragile" since it can't protect itself?

[Delibirb]

itt f***

Banned:
Big Dragons - Outstayed their welcome. By a looooooooooooooooong while.

Limited:
Geargiarmor - This card's ridiculous and shouldn't have been made. Gives Geargia way too much power for what it's worth.
Hieratic Seal of Convocation - Just to do something to hurt Hieratics since they are still a problem at the end of all this. Not as much since the Big Dragons are gone but yeah.
Fire Formation Tenki - They should see how powerful this card is now that Fire Fist are arguably the top guys.
Geargiagear - Unfair the card. Can't see them banning it outright because it does still have the constraint of making you play arguably shitty cards like the Geargiano that aren't MKII, but still.

Semi-Limited:
Gold Sacrophagus - I don't think they have to worry about this being a problem now that the Big Dragons are gone.
Sacred Star Sword thing idk - Big Dragons are gone, they can begin to undo damages.

Unlimited:
Dragon Ravine - Big Dragons are gone and a way to get Dragunity back into the game. May not happen though and might be stretching it, but I could see this being a plausible move on their part.

I'll add more as I think of it, I think that's all I really can think of at this moment though. I feel like this banlist will moreso be a case of getting rid of the big dragons and then undoing all of the hits they caused unnecessarily to keep them around

I like this list. 'tis a decent list.

 

I think Sangan back to one wouldn't be a bad thing to hope for, not that we necessarily need him.

 

The chaos in me wants Thousand-Eyes Restrict at 1 to shake up the format.

 

Kind of wondering if Jackpot 7 will end up being hit or causing its companions to be hit, but we'll have to see how relevant the deck actually becomes.

 

With Big Drags gone, Return might go back to 1, unlikely as it is, as most other decks dont really abuse it (Though Bujins are a thing, so probably not.)

[Daigusto Sphreez]

I didn't say it was infallible. They certainly are beatable. And fragility has nothing to do with it. The Wind-Up Hunter loop was pretty fragile, and that got killed.

 

Your original point was, they need to attack. Which is flat out false. Because Zealgigas pushes the Gustaphs back into the deck, to which you continue looping. Nearly every Gishki ritual has some sort of loop that really screws over the opponent. Gustkraken was Gishki Hierati to abuse hand loops(which proved to be even more effective than the Wind-Up loop). Mind Augus created really large turns and you never decked out. Tetraogre can loop into an opposing deck-out, and Zealgigas burn loops. Every single one is fragile, yet Augus and Gustkraken got hit.

 

And that last part wasn't even at you, it was in general

 

And guess what? "You don't draw Shadow/Salvage whenever you need it". Reverse that logic to the "counters" you are claiming. And you'll see the point. 

 

If someone figured out a way to loop Number 11: Big Eye, would you clamor for it to be hit? Even if it was "fragile" since it can't protect itself?

 

The original point was that Gishki's can easily OTK/FTK actually. The Zielgigas variant in question does need to attack to do so. It only hits an opponent's card if you draw a gishki monster (which is a 50/50 chance at best) and that is assuming that zielgiga's effect goes off since monster effect negation is commonly run. Gustkraken can be unfair if they draw well, but hey, I don't happen to like that variant, I was responding to Koko's claim that Gishki's in general shouldn't exist, to which I've contested credibly. Soul Ogre and Levianima are fine (level 8 gishki's are actually better than most people give credit to), as is Zielgigas, Psychelone, and Tetrogre by itself. 

 

And yes, your opponent doesn't always draw counters just like you don't always draw the combos for your monsters, that's called give and take, Gishki players do deserve to win after all just like any other player can.

 

And it would depend on what way Big Eye could be looped, and what cards you need, as well as what minus' you would receive. In the case of Gishki's, you not only need another ritual spell, you also need another monster material to summon another ritual monster. The Gishki engine basically just alleviates the effort of ritual summoning. You can't begrudge that given how most decks don't have to even run their bosses in their deck with the accessibility of the Extra Deck.

[Canadian]

Banned:

D Rulers - Too good even at one. Can't hit one without hitting them all. 

Royal Tribute - Autowin and obviously broken.

Spellbook of Fate - Putting it to 1 does nothing to stop it from being played every turn. Non-targetting removal on anything is ridiculous.

EEV / DDV - If you look up degenerate in the dictionary you'll find pictures of these. I don't care which one gets hit because they both should be banned and if you disagree you are wrong.

Rekindling - Terrible for the game. Overpowered on release and has only gotten moreso ever since. How it hasn't been touched yet is anybody's guess.

Warning - Replacing it with another BTH because Warning is unfair and BTH is not. 

 

Limited:

Wolfbark - Even outside of Fire Fists this card is an instant Rank 4 for Beast-Warriors and is searchable. 

Mermail Abyssteus - Abyssteus creates many ridiculous Rank 7 plays while making the deck incredibly consistent. This is the only hit I think Mermails deserve atm.

Geargiagear - Far too overpowered at 3 (and still possibly 1), but at least with one copy there is far more risk playing it given that you have to play the level 3 Gears.

Infernity Barrier - Either this or Archfiend to 0. The deck keeps indirectly finding new ways to abuse new Archfiend support and can consistency put down 3 Barriers which is too much for any deck to handle.

Hieratic Dragon King of Atum - I would rather put Gaia to 0, but with this, at least Hieratics (and Chaos Dragons I suppose) aren't able to OTK as easily. Because Hieratic Rulers don't exist with this list, I decided not to hit Convocation as pure Hieratics aren't as powerful on their own.

 

Semi-Limited:

Tenki - Can't see this going to 1 (though it should) so 2 is a good start.

Reckless Greed - I've said this before 3 Reckless 3 Upstart became a thing. Playing 2 becomes far riskier and at best is a +0. 

BTH - Much healthier than Warning. Traptrix would also benefit and it could potentially help against the new Pendulum Summoning mechanic.

Book of Moon - Cannot hit Pendulum Monsters (as far as we know) so it effectively becomes weaker hopefully inspiring Konami to put it back to 2. It is a very good and generic toolbox card that is healthy for the game.

 

Unlimited:

Baby D Rulers - D Rulers are gone so these don't need to be banned. As far as the other cards that were taken down alongside the D Rulers I'll say start with this and eventually move back slowly to test the changes first. 

 

EDIT: Grammar

 

I would have added more (like Exodia to 0, please) but I doubt Konami will even make this many relevant changes, let alone hit more cards.

[Slinky]

 

Banned:

D Rulers - Too good even at one. Can't hit one without hitting them all. 

Royal Tribute - Autowin and obviously broken.

Spellbook of Fate - Putting it to 1 does nothing to stop it from being played every turn. Non-targetting removal on anything is ridiculous.

EEV / DDV - If you look up degenerate in the dictionary you'll find pictures of these. I don't care which one gets hit because they both should be banned and if you disagree you are wrong.

Rekindling - Terrible for the game. Overpowered on release and has only gotten moreso ever since. How it hasn't been touched yet is anybodies guess

Warning - Replacing it with another BTH because Warning is unfair and BTH is not. 

 

Limited:

Wolfbark - Even outside of Fire Fists this card is an instant Rank 4 for Beast-Warriors and is searchable. 

Mermail Abyssteus - Abyssteus creates many ridiculous Rank 7 plays while making the deck incredibly consistent. This is the only hit I think Mermails deserve atm.

Geargiagear - Far too overpowered at 3 (and still possibly 1), but at least with one copy there is far more risk playing it given that you have to play the level 3 Gears.

Infernity Barrier - Either this or Archfiend to 0. The deck keeps indirectly finding new ways to abuse new Archfiend support and can consistency put down 3 Barriers which is too much for any deck to handle.

Hieratic Dragon King of Atum - I would rather put Dragoons to 0, but with this, at least Hieratics (and Chaos Dragons I suppose) aren't able to OTK as easily. Because Hieratic Rulers don't exist with this list, I decided not to hit Convocation as pure Hieratics aren't as powerful on their own.

 

Semi-Limited:

Tenki - Can't see this going to 1 (though it should) so 2 is a good start.

Reckless Greed - I've said this before 3 Reckless 3 Upstart became a thing. Playing 2 becomes far riskier and at best is a +0. 

BTH - Much healthier than Warning. Traptrix would also benefit and it could potentially help against the new Pendulum Summoning mechanic.

Book of Moon - Cannot hit Pendulum Monsters (as far as we know) so it effectively becomes weaker hopefully inspiring Konami to put it back to 2. It is a very good and generic toolbox card that is healthy for the game.

 

Unlimited:

Baby D Rulers - D Rulers are gone so these don't need to be banned. As far as the other cards that were taken down alongside the D Rulers I'll say start with this and eventually move back slowly to test the changes first. 

 

 

I can live with this. I'd miss my tidal engine in my Sirenorca/Geyser Shark.dek though ;-;

[Daigusto Sphreez]

 

Banned:

D Rulers - Too good even at one. Can't hit one without hitting them all. 

Royal Tribute - Autowin and obviously broken.

Spellbook of Fate - Putting it to 1 does nothing to stop it from being played every turn. Non-targetting removal on anything is ridiculous.

EEV / DDV - If you look up degenerate in the dictionary you'll find pictures of these. I don't care which one gets hit because they both should be banned and if you disagree you are wrong.

Rekindling - Terrible for the game. Overpowered on release and has only gotten moreso ever since. How it hasn't been touched yet is anybody's guess.

Warning - Replacing it with another BTH because Warning is unfair and BTH is not. 

 

Limited:

Wolfbark - Even outside of Fire Fists this card is an instant Rank 4 for Beast-Warriors and is searchable. 

Mermail Abyssteus - Abyssteus creates many ridiculous Rank 7 plays while making the deck incredibly consistent. This is the only hit I think Mermails deserve atm.

Geargiagear - Far too overpowered at 3 (and still possibly 1), but at least with one copy there is far more risk playing it given that you have to play the level 3 Gears.

Infernity Barrier - Either this or Archfiend to 0. The deck keeps indirectly finding new ways to abuse new Archfiend support and can consistency put down 3 Barriers which is too much for any deck to handle.

Hieratic Dragon King of Atum - I would rather put Gaia to 0, but with this, at least Hieratics (and Chaos Dragons I suppose) aren't able to OTK as easily. Because Hieratic Rulers don't exist with this list, I decided not to hit Convocation as pure Hieratics aren't as powerful on their own.

 

Semi-Limited:

Tenki - Can't see this going to 1 (though it should) so 2 is a good start.

Reckless Greed - I've said this before 3 Reckless 3 Upstart became a thing. Playing 2 becomes far riskier and at best is a +0. 

BTH - Much healthier than Warning. Traptrix would also benefit and it could potentially help against the new Pendulum Summoning mechanic.

Book of Moon - Cannot hit Pendulum Monsters (as far as we know) so it effectively becomes weaker hopefully inspiring Konami to put it back to 2. It is a very good and generic toolbox card that is healthy for the game.

 

Unlimited:

Baby D Rulers - D Rulers are gone so these don't need to be banned. As far as the other cards that were taken down alongside the D Rulers I'll say start with this and eventually move back slowly to test the changes first. 

 

EDIT: Grammar

 

I would have added more (like Exodia to 0, please) but I doubt Konami will even make this many relevant changes, let alone hit more cards.

 

 

I largely agree with this actually. Especially Royal Tribute/ DDV/EEV/Fate/Wolfbark/Teus/Tenki

Although Linde could easily be limited instead of Teus. 

[Slinky]

Honestly, I'd ban tower instead of Fate, that draw engine needs to gtfo. Prophecys don't need it ;-;. It would be fine if it didn't draw, but currently, it just does too much. You destroy it? They plus. You leave it? They plus. its a lose-lose situation.

[Dog King]

i wouldnt hit any archetypes this list just changed around the generic monsters/spells/traps on the list because 3 month formats are really stupid

maybe just hit like some of the archetype stuff to 2

[Canadian]

i wouldnt hit any archetypes this list just changed around the generic monsters/spells/traps on the list because 3 month formats are really stupid

maybe just hit like some of the archetype stuff to 2

This is partly why formats are now only 3 months and not 6 months though. Konami is better able to manage the game by restricting unfair cards, and do not have to wait half a year each time they do this.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

I want Glow Up at 1 and Hyper or Formula at 2. The latter 2 honestly would not hurt that much.

 

I could see Tenki getting hit, Sylvans eventually should get hit but should dodge this banlist.

 

Fire Fists need a hit of some kind other than Tenki.

I could see Mermails getting Sphere(?) to 1-2.

I don't think M7 at three is bad or good, but I would lean towards it at 2.

I think also that Ophion should be hit in someway.

Bottomless and Warning need to die IMO.

I may update more later.

[Sora1499]

I want Glow Up at 1 and Hyper or Formula at 2. The latter 2 honestly would not hurt that much.
 
I could see Tenki getting hit, Sylvans eventually should get hit but should dodge this banlist.
 
Fire Fists need a hit of some kind other than Tenki.
I could see Mermails getting Sphere(?) to 1-2.
I don't think M7 at three is bad or good, but I would lean towards it at 2.

I think also that Ophion should be hit in someway.

Bottomless and Warning need to die IMO.
I may update more later.

Librarian at 2 is a reeeeeeeeally bad idea, even if Synchro turbo isn't relevant at the moment.