Bringerofcake Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 should it come back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 no. Artifacts arent enough of a reason to warrant something like this. I'm all for a replacement that can hit like.. 2 instead of 1 for free, but hitting all pretty much gets rid of all defense aside from hand/grave traps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neochu-H Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 i ran this and monster reborn in every deck so yes. to any who quotes this with bad criticism, i don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 i ran this and monster reborn in every deck so yes. to any who quotes this with bad criticism, i don't care. I tried that once. OT: I miss it, but it still lets players make plays completely uninterrupted by BTS and other backrow. Still, I'd like for something to exist that would encourage players to not set as many backrow as possible (or at least something more prevalent). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildflame Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I love and hate at the same time the mind games that the existence of this card brings to the game, so..., not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Warden Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Sometimes I miss it with all my heart, but it's better off gone. Not just because Artifacts, but because there is sufficient enough removal now that it's no longer necessary. Granted, I wish I had it for this one deck I faced that was Hands, Traptrix and about 25 or so Traps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Yes. Whether people like it or not, the card isn't nearly as much of a problem as it would be and at least having it around creates the mentality that you have to be somewhat smarter with your plays instead of setting your whole hand without any real worry. It also becomes more important to time your Heavy Storm correctly because of Artifacts now, and personally I'd like to see it come back to 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degritone Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 While I hate to say it, yes. This and Dark Hole should always stick together, and I prefer when they're both at 1 to when they're both at 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I used to always want it at 1, citing it as a necessary evil to prevent the "set 5" plays. These were particularly problematic with Six Samurai at their peak (Shi En was at 3), as a Sam player could reliably drop a Shi En or two, then Set 2-3 cards and be relatively untouchable, as one of those cards was probably Warning, Fiendish Chain, etc. However, since its banning, I've found myself enjoying Duels much more. Setting 2 backrow was no longer an inherently risky play, and it allowed me more freedom in planning for my opponent. While the extreme of this mindset is to set 3-4 backrow and feel smug, many of the cards in the game are able to pop backrow with relative freedom, but only 1 at a time, and unless one of those cards is going to in some way protect your investment from specific cards/effects, setting a lot of cards with similar, specific timings (like D-Prison and Mirror Force) puts you at risk from removal. I just feel that many Decks and cards became more viable without having to rely on the mindset of "Heavy Storm will make me lose". Cards like Call of the Haunted, Fiendish Chain, etc all get more playability just because Continuous cards are not inherently stupid to run. I can see the advantages to the Heavy Storm mindset, but because S/Ts are significantly harder to recover than monsters, Dark Hole genuinely is less dangerous. All mass S/T removal tended to be OTK-enablers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhat Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Funny that Exciton serves the exact opposite purpose (punishing swarms and card advantage) and is impossible to OTK with, but is problematic for the same reasons (punishing slow buildup). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I used to always want it at 1, citing it as a necessary evil to prevent the "set 5" plays. These were particularly problematic with Six Samurai at their peak (Shi En was at 3), as a Sam player could reliably drop a Shi En or two, then Set 2-3 cards and be relatively untouchable, as one of those cards was probably Warning, Fiendish Chain, etc. However, since its banning, I've found myself enjoying Duels much more. Setting 2 backrow was no longer an inherently risky play, and it allowed me more freedom in planning for my opponent. While the extreme of this mindset is to set 3-4 backrow and feel smug, many of the cards in the game are able to pop backrow with relative freedom, but only 1 at a time, and unless one of those cards is going to in some way protect your investment from specific cards/effects, setting a lot of cards with similar, specific timings (like D-Prison and Mirror Force) puts you at risk from removal. I just feel that many Decks and cards became more viable without having to rely on the mindset of "Heavy Storm will make me lose". Cards like Call of the Haunted, Fiendish Chain, etc all get more playability just because Continuous cards are not inherently stupid to run. I can see the advantages to the Heavy Storm mindset, but because S/Ts are significantly harder to recover than monsters, Dark Hole genuinely is less dangerous. All mass S/T removal tended to be OTK-enablers. This guy. This guy gets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werewolfjedi Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 to put it simply, setting a lot shouldn't inherently punished by 1 card like this with no cost. it's part of the rules of the game, you can set and play spells all day, but monsters are limited to 1 per turn. as such, widespread monster destruction is deemed more fair, because not every deck is built from the word go to 1 turn swarm, we have to figure out the plays and having a counter in the game to stop that is healthy. having a counter in the game to stop a full set, just feels mean, and definitely allows OTK decks to work more often by the sole virtue of wiping a backrow out with one card. this is bad for the continuation of the game inn a balanced manner. sure 1 card field wipes exist, but most of them have requirements, and usually blow up your own field to trigger them, and more than 1 card required to play them, this balances them just enough to make it fair in all honesty. in addition, the existance of those cards, and the fact that knight is a generic one that every deck should have the basic ability to summon, means we don't need this in the pool any longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Althemia Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Whether people like it or not, the card isn't nearly as much of a problem as it would be and at least having it around creates the mentality that you have to be somewhat smarter with your plays instead of setting your whole hand without any real worry.Wanna know what else having around brings on the mentality to play smarter?OT: Would like to keep it banned now that we have Evilswarm Exciton Knight to fill the same kind of role, which honestly I feel he does quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Max Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 As a Crystal Beast Player, Heavy can suck it..... I have never felt more confident to play them since Storm was banned. Sure, it makes Burn and Stall a lot more viable as they love to have Traps ready to negate anything but with SJ gone as well this format, I can rest more easily. If Storm ever comes back, I will be forced to look into other Decks to play which is out of my Comfort Zone. Absolutly sucks when I have 4 CB's set up for Abundance and they throw Heavy at me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zauls Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I used to think that because of Artifacts then this could come back and it wouldn't be as much of a problem. Now though we have good enough alternatives in the form of Exciton, MalCat and even Full House (which was sided not long ago). Basically, backrow destruction is nice to stop the "set 5 end" formats which are really tedious, but it shouldn't be so easy as Heavy Storm and it shouldn't open up OTKs. I would kind of like a card similar to the way Dichotomy is to Avarice, only for Heavy Storm, but then again Exciton is probably enough for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoRWBY65 Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 If this was still legal, it would also kill Pendulum monsters in the Pendulum Zones. Wiping them out in addition to the backrow with just one card for free feels like it gains way too much advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas★Zero Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 You would think Gaint Trunade would be better coming back at 1 then heavy storm since Trunade wouldn't trigger artefacts and would do nothing against pendulums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 You would think Gaint Trunade would be better coming back at 1 then heavy storm since Trunade wouldn't trigger artefacts and would do nothing against pendulums. Trunade helps artifacts. Reuse used Calls for more shenanigans. Though Trunade might put Fiendish on the same level as breakthrough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Trunade is a no-no. It recycles the crap out of your backrow, clears the opponent's without destroying or targeting (even it's just temporary), and allows OTKs. Heavy Storm is as bad as ever regarding what the problem is, but funny enough it's not actually needed either. I've had decks that use-up archetype support to clear a card or two from me and then use an MST on whatever remains, but in doing so, they used-up their combo for that, and won't usually OTK me in the process, although it will enter some damage. Even Exciton Knight. He sounds bonkers but it never really does all that much as to be irreversible. What we currently have is surprisingly fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhat Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 ...Would like to keep it banned now that we have Evilswarm Exciton Knight to fill the same kind of role, which honestly I feel he does quite well. ...Exciton serves the exact opposite purpose (punishing swarms and card advantage) and is impossible to OTK with, but is problematic for the same reasons (punishing slow buildup). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I hate not having this card. Sure, it's an OTK enabler, but without it, there's not much reason to conserve traps. Just place them when you get them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I hate not having this card. Sure, it's an OTK enabler, but without it, there's not much reason to conserve traps. Just place them when you get them. Argument has no merit. Top players began to play as if Heavy didn't exist before it was banned. Why? Because as the game progresses, the need for protection is greater. If they have heavy, they have it, but it was either live in fear of heavy and get beaten down anyways or at least try to be ready to take them down instead of fearing a limited card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Maybe I just run into too many set 5 players on DN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neochu-H Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Maybe I just run into too many set 5 players on DN. no, the rule 1 of DN is you always start with heavy storm (or always have mirror force set) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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