[CORE] Igknight

[Blake]

I am not saying they cannot make powerful xyz plays, I am only saying that a plus 1 does not seem all that impressive if it requires the player to already use his cards previously in a certain way and lose speed for a mere +1.

On a side note this would work better with dark factory of mass production and would get 2 certain cards instead of 2 random, has not limitations, does not slow the deck down and can be used twice aftergoing for a double xyz play.

... No it wouldn't.

 

Factory is only good if you've resolved an Xyz for sure. Riches is good even if you haven't, and it restores more advantage while digging into better cards. And "you can use it twice" is a stupid point because now you're comparing 2 copies of a card to 1 copy .-.

 

In addition your point falls completely flat. "Oh you can already plus and you're 'losing speed' for it!"

 

How? It's extra plussing, yeah, but it doesn't slow you down, and you haven't supplied any logic to suggest that it does. It just means not an Xyz/Synchro turn. But you have decent cards in their own rights, so you're not losing too much, and you have the ability to dig into S/T as well. Being 'random' instead of straight monsters is... better.

[Expelsword]

I am not saying they cannot make powerful xyz plays, I am only saying that a plus 1 does not seem all that impressive if it requires the player to already use his cards previously in a certain way and lose speed for a mere +1.

 

On a side note this would work better with dark factory of mass production and would get 2 certain cards instead of 2 random, has not limitations, does not slow the deck down and can be used twice aftergoing for a double xyz play.

 

First of all, this deck is clearly supposed to create resources fast, and from thin air, so it's not like you can't afford to give some up to draw (in theory, anyway).

 

And are you suggesting that drawing two cards from your deck "randomly" is bad?

[Toffee.]

The one they don't have! :D

Actually, I thought the first few Scale ones had unknown stuff for them, because nothing was actually listed.
Or at least, for the monster part, since I was under the impression they had Pendulum Effects.

.....Guess not.

[Pchi]

Nice to see a new FIRE Archetype, though I'd rather have Konami finally release a FIRE Psychic theme instead of yet another Warrior one :/

But I'm pretty sure that if they get S/T support, there'd be at least 1 card like this:

 

Igknights, Assemble!

Continuous Spell Card

Once per turn, if an "Igknight" card(s) on your Monster or Pendulum Zone is destroyed: You can add 1 "Igknight" monster from your Deck or Graveyard to your hand. If this card you control is destroyed: You can add 1 "Igknight" Spell/Trap Card from your Deck to your hand.

[Expelsword]

Oh hey, you could play Starlight Road here really easilly.

 

I don't think it would be that great, per se, but I guarantee you they won't expect it.

[Neutrality Man]

All but the boss are FIRE warrior vanilla pendulums with the same effect. 

[玄魔の王]

Are... are you joking?

You use Pot of Riches after you Xyz/when you're overstocked. When you have more than 5 things you can Pendulum Summon.

4 guys + Pot of Riches
-2 +1
-2 +1
set scales, +4
+2 total

Overlay 3 into Ptolemaios (-1)
USe her into Nova
Overlay Nova into Infinity

Next turn, pot of Riches (+1)

You restored advantage, made a strong boss monster, and have advantage in the form of an extra dude and scales to boot.

Did we mention we can go for Rhongomiant as well? Infinity and Rhom at once... *shiver*

[Blake]

i didn't even process that they go rhongo bongo

 

so opening 5 of these is just plain GG really

[Delibirb]

If all/most of the ones you open are level 4 that is.

Still liking the idea of 3+ Tribute monsters

[The Highlander]

... No it wouldn't.

 

Factory is only good if you've resolved an Xyz for sure. Riches is good even if you haven't, and it restores more advantage while digging into better cards. And "you can use it twice" is a stupid point because now you're comparing 2 copies of a card to 1 copy .-.

 

In addition your point falls completely flat. "Oh you can already plus and you're 'losing speed' for it!"

 

How? It's extra plussing, yeah, but it doesn't slow you down, and you haven't supplied any logic to suggest that it does. It just means not an Xyz/Synchro turn. But you have decent cards in their own rights, so you're not losing too much, and you have the ability to dig into S/T as well. Being 'random' instead of straight monsters is... better.

Except that it is a cards which is dead until one turn passes and thus cannot be used to extend combos, how are 2 certain cards better than 2 random cards ? simple, you would want to get 2 cards of the main engine back instead of getting 2 random new cards, which might be more copies of pot of riches or other cards one currently might not need.

Having one additional unusable card in your hand is in no way optimal, not to mention that it forces you to walk that one certain path.

"Factory is only good if you've resolved an Xyz for sure. Riches is good even if you haven't".

Oh please if you have not resolved one yet, then you are shuffling potential advantage back., so this argument falls apart into another mere play of desperation.

"It just means not an Xyz/Synchro turn"

It also means no fusion substitute ... at least it does not prevent barbaros or ladd, so there is at least a little truth in the point you wanted to make.

"Oh you can already plus and you're 'losing speed' for it!"

Pluses are these days so damn easy to accomplish that another mere +1 is not worth any kind of struggling, including losing speed and holding cards which are useless for a while and on top of that are wasting even more time if they lead into other copies of themselves.

"you haven't supplied any logic to suggest that it does"

You really are hopeless, but as a sign of my good intentions I am wasting more of my precious time to explain it to you.

"it doesn't slow you down"

Forces you to take a certain route, is potentially dead, can lead into other potentially dead cards, you have to prepare one turn before actually using it, so either wanted to go own that one route or already had this card which is then a dead stone for one turn ... I guess I do not need to go on, if you still do not understand that is not my problem, then let us just ignore what the other one said thus (if your time would be as precious as mine)

not try to force each other to waste more time on a pointless discussion.

[Blake]

First things first; Use some God damn paragraphs. It makes it easier on everyone else and makes your post able to be taken more seriously.
 

Except that it is a cards which is dead until one turn passes and thus cannot be used to extend combos, how are 2 certain cards better than 2 random cards ? simple, you would want to get 2 cards of the main engine back instead of getting 2 random new cards, which might be more copies of pot of riches or other cards one currently might not need.

So how do you "always" need 2 vanillas that can technically go + again? Like, how the hell is drawing cards in an attempt to get more backrow/good shit worse? You're getting /3/ cards back in an attempt to get more good cards, and it can also grab from the ED if you want. Same logic as using it in Performapals, except all of your monsters are Pendulums in the vein of Wizard and Lizard. You likely don't need the advantage the turn you Xyz because, surprise surprise, you would have already Pendulum Summoned that turn.
 

Having one additional unusable card in your hand is in no way optimal, not to mention that it forces you to walk that one certain path.
"Factory is only good if you've resolved an Xyz for sure. Riches is good even if you haven't".
Oh please if you have not resolved one yet, then you are shuffling potential advantage back., so this argument falls apart into another mere play of desperation.

So, uh, please tell me how having a card that's live in extra scenarios, albeit desperation, is worse than having a card whose level of being live is completely situational? You act as if you made a strong point, but YOU just admitted it's more live than Factory.

 

"It just means not an Xyz/Synchro turn"
It also means no fusion substitute ... at least it does not prevent barbaros or ladd, so there is at least a little truth in the point you wanted to make.

What does Fusion have to do with anything? I mean it's cute, but witch isn't a good scale and poly... actually you can search blazeman so that might be cute. Point still remains.

 

"Oh you can already plus and you're 'losing speed' for it!"
Pluses are these days so damn easy to accomplish that another mere +1 is not worth any kind of struggling, including losing speed and holding cards which are useless for a while and on top of that are wasting even more time if they lead into other copies of themselves.

You're not struggling OR losing speed. You have yet to supply evidence of either existing, and only suggested an inferior card that gives you 2 vanillas that aren't live any sooner than Riches would make them... over 2 draws. Who CARES if you draw more? Who says you HAVE to run 3? I only run 2 in Performapals, though the argument for 3 is applicable to both decks.

 

"it doesn't slow you down"
Forces you to take a certain route, is potentially dead, can lead into other potentially dead cards, you have to prepare one turn before actually using it, so either wanted to go own that one route or already had this card which is then a dead stone for one turn ... I guess I do not need to go on, if you still do not understand that is not my problem, then let us just ignore what the other one said thus (if your time would be as precious as mine)

That's not slowing you down at all. Yeah, you have /1/ card (though multiple copies) that's dead TURN 1... and then live for almost the entirety of the game. Sure, you might have to wait a turn to use it on occasion, but that's not that much of a problem.

"Forces you to take a certain route"
... In exchange for a mini-avarice? That's not slowing you down. That's the opposite. It just means you play differently for one turn, but it doesn't hinder the deck in any way beyond Xyz/Syncho/Fusion. Sure it might be dead for a turn, but that's due to you making other plays that'll likely OTK or put you in a good position. And if not, it's a recovery card.

"Can lead into other potentially dead cards"
How? What does this point even mean? This just sounds like you hate Draw Power in general, and isn't really a point.

You keep touting its slow, but the only remote foothold you achieved is the lack of ED Summoning, and that's not even the worst when you're recovering advantage for the future and digging into Backrow/Raigeki/Snatch Steal/etc.

 

not try to force each other to waste more time on a pointless discussion.

Sorry, even if you insist on refusing to understand, maybe it can help someone else.

[Bringerofcake]

Like good old fashioned vanilla pendulum, you can also run first of the dragons as well, if it comes to that.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

Like good old fashioned vanilla pendulum, you can also run first of the dragons as well, if it comes to that.

Hell, Broken thinks that this might be a good deck for Trump Witch to be put into.

[Blake]

Trump witch would be poor, but cute, because its name scale are ass for the deck. You could run her in a P-Pal engine, which could theoretically work, but eh. Blazeman himself seems like a better choice if you wanna go that route.

[Expelsword]

First things first; Use some God damn paragraphs. It makes it easier on everyone else and makes your post able to be taken more seriously.

 

By the same token, could you all please put a space after a quote? It makes it a lot easier to tell what's a quote and what's not.

 

Anyway the heart of your argument, Mr. Highlander, is that getting two monsters back from the Graveyard (where they shouldn't be all that frequently, really) is better than trading some cards from your Extra (of which you are likely to have a bunch) for cards from your deck. And that's just senseless.

[Blake]

By the same token, could you all please put a space after a quote? It makes it a lot easier to tell what's a quote and what's not.
 
Anyway the heart of your argument, Mr. Highlander, is that getting two monsters back from the Graveyard (where they shouldn't be all that frequently, really) is better than trading some cards from your Extra (of which you are likely to have a bunch) for cards from your deck. And that's just senseless.

i
apologize, it shows a space on my end. Must be the skin/mobile or something, but I'll attempt to fix it, all the same.

[evilfusion]

Dark Factory only recovers from the Graveyard. Pendulums are only in the Graveyard if they were detached or discarded (or sent from the Deck). Yes, they'll be there after you Pendulum Summon and then Xyz. But unless you're doing multiple Xyz or double detaches, Dark Factory isn't going to be live for a turn.

 

Pot of Riches can recover from the Grave or Extra Deck, but puts them into the Deck, where you can search them again, plus you draw 2, where you could draw S/Ts in additional to Scales. Riches is also 2/3 live from the moment you set 2 Scales and search.

 

There are merits and downsides to both options, but I don't see Dark Factory as being really as consistent or advantageous as Riches in a primarily Pendulum-focused Deck.

 

Once you have several Igknights in your Extra Deck, Riches putting them back in the Deck in no way sets you back, because you can't Pendulum Summon 6+ monsters. It reminds me of Heraldics. They want to be in the Graveyard, but they don't want to run out of monsters in the Deck to search/send.

[White Void]

It's not optimal but given how easily these things spam, you could even go for a simple old school beatdown feel by just tossing in Command Knight and The A. Forces. That's how stupidly easy these things are to work with.

[Expelsword]

It's not optimal but given how easily these things spam, you could even go for a simple old school beatdown feel by just tossing in Command Knight and The A. Forces. That's how stupidly easy these things are to work with.

 

Oh man, talk about a throwback strategy...

[CLG Klavier]

I have a strange feeling this is gonna be a stupidly fast and stupid consistent deck. It's really hard to fail when your deck runs...25-ish copies of the main "card". Sure, the is the issue of them being various levels, but if you manage to get a hold on a few of the same...yeah. Hello Rhongomat.

[Blake]

So, the deck focuses on... calling their allies to help them out. So let's look at their potential bosses in the ED.

 

They have odd swords (gunblades) and have a fire theme.

Fusion Bosses:
An E-Hero that looks like a Knight
A serpentine dragon

 

Synchro access:

fuck ton of dragons and Yazi from levels 7-8 (CWSD is somewhat serpentine or gorgon-like)

 

Crimson Blader, a knight

Nothung, a bird knight

Metaphys Horus

 

Xyz access:

Infinity, a serpentine Mecha-dragon summoned by using a knight to summon it to their aid

Rhongo, a dark knight

Excalibur, another knight

Blade Armor Ninja, ignore this one

Utopia the Lightning and Utopia Beyond, knight-like bosses

Ptolemy, a dragon mech

A Lion Emperor that calls shit back for very little drawback here

Basiltrice

Etc.

 

#BLAZEPALADINSCONFIRMED

[TheTurtleOnceCalledGod]

Hopefully they won't turn into qliphorts.

[Toffee.]

Alright, since nobody is posting them I'll go ahead and do it for you guys:
[spoiler=Avenger]
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Caliber]
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Riot]
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Musket]
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Dragnov]
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Eagle]
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Magnum]
[/spoiler]

Oh my gosh, they all look incredibly badass.

And aside from the lone Effect Monster, ALL of the Pendulums have the same 'destroy all your pendumum zone stuff to search a FIRE Warrior' effect. That is amazing.

[The Highlander]

By the same token, could you all please put a space after a quote? It makes it a lot easier to tell what's a quote and what's not.

 

Anyway the heart of your argument, Mr. Highlander, is that getting two monsters back from the Graveyard (where they shouldn't be all that frequently, really) is better than trading some cards from your Extra (of which you are likely to have a bunch) for cards from your deck. And that's just senseless.

 

Only that this is only the case once the game has already progressed and you are basicly demanding to just give up the entire extra deck advantage you build (or a large portion of it) for one mere additional card in your hand, simply targeting them in the extra deck requires you to have already build a solid advantage so that it would not matter if you shuffle a portion back just to get one additional card (unless it is the late game, after all I did not say one should not play this card at all, I simply said dark factory also has its own advantages over this card and it should not be the focus to play this card as early as possible).

 

Dark Factory only recovers from the Graveyard. Pendulums are only in the Graveyard if they were detached or discarded (or sent from the Deck). Yes, they'll be there after you Pendulum Summon and then Xyz. But unless you're doing multiple Xyz or double detaches, Dark Factory isn't going to be live for a turn.

 

Pot of Riches can recover from the Grave or Extra Deck, but puts them into the Deck, where you can search them again, plus you draw 2, where you could draw S/Ts in additional to Scales. Riches is also 2/3 live from the moment you set 2 Scales and search.

 

There are merits and downsides to both options, but I don't see Dark Factory as being really as consistent or advantageous as Riches in a primarily Pendulum-focused Deck.

 

Once you have several Igknights in your Extra Deck, Riches putting them back in the Deck in no way sets you back, because you can't Pendulum Summon 6+ monsters. It reminds me of Heraldics. They want to be in the Graveyard, but they don't want to run out of monsters in the Deck to search/send.

 

Yea the first two lines are indeed true, however why would you want to shuffle your setup and thus your potential monsters back for merely one additional card in your hand, which only works one turn after already setting up for that, I was saying that for xyzs (which are required as these monsters are on their own weak and thus need tribute/fusion/synchro/xyz support) dark factory works faster, while recovering 2 certain combo pieces instead of granting 2 random cards, which migth not be useful (not that draws are awful, however the targets to add back are already at least decent, I am more interested in the restrictions for pot of riches, which are adding additional conditions for its use, unlike dark factory).

I already explained why one would not want to shuffle potential monsters back (unless it is the late game and you had to rebuild your scales or dont want to see as many monsters as you currently have, after all I only said that this card is not as overwhelmingly good as it is described).

"Once you have several Igknights in your Extra Deck, Riches putting them back in the Deck in no way sets you back, because you can't Pendulum Summon 6+ monsters. It reminds me of Heraldics. They want to be in the Graveyard, but they don't want to run out of monsters in the Deck to search/send."

Finally one good argument ... indeed one would want to shuffle unnecessary potential monsters back, however not from the first few turns on, so the card would be playable at 1-2, however you could also use dark factory during the earlier turns to make sure you have backup scales and can easily recover from exciton knight etc. (including an own exciton knigth).

"There are merits and downsides to both options,"

Oh so there is at least one person able to understand this, understanding that it should not be an aim to play riches, but rather a way to regenerate from casualties.

 

 

First things first; Use some God damn paragraphs. It makes it easier on everyone else and makes your post able to be taken more seriously.
 
So how do you "always" need 2 vanillas that can technically go + again? Like, how the hell is drawing cards in an attempt to get more backrow/good s*** worse? You're getting /3/ cards back in an attempt to get more good cards, and it can also grab from the ED if you want. Same logic as using it in Performapals, except all of your monsters are Pendulums in the vein of Wizard and Lizard. You likely don't need the advantage the turn you Xyz because, surprise surprise, you would have already Pendulum Summoned that turn.
 

 

If that helps you to keep your mind together I see no reason not to help you to be at least able to do this.

"So how do you "always" need 2 vanillas that can technically go + again?"

So one additional time/backup equals always ? (I never said one should not play pot of riches, so you cannot accuse me of saying one should play 0 copies of pot and 3 copies of factory, as I never stated that).

"and it can also grab from the ED if you want."

No if you are forced to as you could otherwise not play it and have a dead stone in your hand.

"Same logic as using it in Performapals"

Except that those are neither normal monsters, nor are they not able of cycling without losing any hand advantage, so they were never forced to turn hand advantage into potential advantage as magician replaces ALL cards he sends to the extra deck.

"You likely don't need the advantage the turn you Xyz because"

First if you do not need it that turn there would be no point in 3 copies or the wish to get this card o "extend" your combos results.

Second one should always try to make plays as quickly as possible, not to mention that this card requires more targets to be alive.

 

So, uh, please tell me how having a card that's live in extra scenarios, albeit desperation, is worse than having a card whose level of being live is completely situational? You act as if you made a strong point, but YOU just admitted it's more live than Factory.

What does Fusion have to do with anything? I mean it's cute, but witch isn't a good scale and poly... actually you can search blazeman so that might be cute. Point still remains.
 

 

It is indeed alive in more situations if you look at 3 material xyzs or multiple 2 material xyzs and non-xyz plays, however factory is earlier alive due to xyzs.

Witch is awful for them and arguably in anyways usable, howver I was refering to fusion substitute, which is not stopped or delayed by factory.

 

 

You're not struggling OR losing speed. You have yet to supply evidence of either existing, and only suggested an inferior card that gives you 2 vanillas that aren't live any sooner than Riches would make them... over 2 draws. Who CARES if you draw more? Who says you HAVE to run 3? I only run 2 in Performapals, though the argument for 3 is applicable to both decks.

That's not slowing you down at all. Yeah, you have /1/ card (though multiple copies) that's dead TURN 1... and then live for almost the entirety of the game. Sure, you might have to wait a turn to use it on occasion, but that's not that much of a problem.
 

 

A certain somebody mentioned the need of 3 copies and you mentioned the superior position of would reach if one would use this, not caring whether it is the early or lategame.

I never said factory is not slow either, however it has no annoying conditions which prevent you from extra deck plays, which this deck requires (unless you have tribute plays etc.).

As earlier mentioned the playstyle of this deck is not necessarily the same as performapals and this archetype does not cycle at least yet) withotu losing hand advantage, which performapals do not lose, on top of that ...

performapals are not that bound to their extra deck, as they themselves are are able to attack and defend without further cards.

"that's dead TURN 1"

Any turn before you made an xz play or have an extra deck filled with so many cards that the amoujnt of the advantage itself becomes redundant.

It is one turn you cannot use to setup control (unless you have tribute plays etc.).

 

 

"Forces you to take a certain route"
... In exchange for a mini-avarice? That's not slowing you down. That's the opposite. It just means you play differently for one turn, but it doesn't hinder the deck in any way beyond Xyz/Syncho/Fusion. Sure it might be dead for a turn, but that's due to you making other plays that'll likely OTK or put you in a good position. And if not, it's a recovery card.

"Can lead into other potentially dead cards"
How? What does this point even mean? This just sounds like you hate Draw Power in general, and isn't really a point.
 

 

If they OTK you do not need this, you are also limiting yourself for the next turn .

Of course it is a recovery card, I never said (as above mentioned) that this card is not usable, I said is not as overwhelming as a certain somebody described it to be, its use exists, however 3 copies and the wish to draw it early are unnecessary as the card is mainly a card to regenerate once you already have used many of your resources and need to recover, or have so much extra deck advantage that it becomes redundant.

"This just sounds like you hate Draw Power in general"

I definitely do not hate draw power, I simply dislike the thought of playing a card which is a mere plus one for a deck which would only need it as late game regeneration, which can only be used once per turn, can let you draw into other copies of itself, which would then be dead weight or direct your next few turns and limits you if there are alternatives which do not limit you in your possibilities.

 

You keep touting its slow, but the only remote foothold you achieved is the lack of ED Summoning, and that's not even the worst when you're recovering advantage for the future and digging into Backrow/Raigeki/Snatch Steal/etc.

Sorry, even if you insist on refusing to understand, maybe it can help someone else.

 

And again this point ... I guess I need to explain my position towards this card and the amount in the deck to prevent further missunderstandings.

"Sorry, even if you insist on refusing to understand, maybe it can help someone else."

Which is the reason why I kept arguing.

 

Now then I guess I need to state my position as it might be missunderstood until the end of times.

 

Pot of Riches is definitely useful for the deck, however it it limits ones own freedom of actions, it is not always alive and unlike dark factory of mass production requires 3 targets to be alive, so a simple 2 material xyz is not enough to fuel it.

However it is able to turn redundant advantage into a bit hand advantage.

Even thought it forces you to head a certain route and prevents you from fusion substitute, synchro and xyz plays allows you to make tribute summon plays, which are also useful for the deck (beast king barbaros is even a bit faster accessible this way), so one should not exaggerate with the amount of copies one would want to play.

All in all this card is currently an useful addition for the deck at 1-2, thought one should not wish to get it as quickly as possible, I for one would want to draw it from turn 3 or 4 and the later turns.

Dark Factory would be a tech. as it would allow a player, who likes to make multiple xyz plays with them to regenerate quicker and definitely get back on his feet to keep on going.

 

To make sure there are not any more who misinterpret my position and the negative arguments against the card I was mentioning, which are the reason why I stated 3 copies would be an exaggeration (thought I should not underestimate the simpleness of the masses).

Oh and last but not least for anyone who has not seen It yet:

"YOU CANNOT SIMPLY COMPARE PERFORMAPALS AND IGKNIGHTS IN THEIR NEED OF EXTRA DECK SUMMONS, AS PERFORMAPALS ARE ABLE TO FIGHT WITHOUT AN EXTRA DECK, THIS DECK DECK REQUIRES AN EXTRA DECK (OR AT LEAST TRIBUTE MONSTERS) AND DOES NOT CYCLE WHILE REPLACING ALL USED CARDS TO CYCLE, THEY ARE HOWEVER ABLE TO CYCLE QUICKER "

[Toffee.]

GUYS
In addition to the gun-puns and other stuff, it actually goes deeper then that.
The name Igknight, containing 'Ignite', stems from the fact older guns used flintlocks to fire.
Add to it, each member of this Archetype basically functions as ammo. Literally. Because if you think about, you are actually loading up some imaginary gun with each member you destroy to search with, and then you simply- *ahem* open fire with your Pendulum Summon via playing them all at once.

Srsly.