VampireofDarkness Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 So it has come to my attention that several times, through YCM's Advanced section and here in DP, there becomes a common issue with a lot of legacy support to older archetypes or sets of cards out there: There is the chance for there to be the absolutely broken boss monster that makes you have to jump through quite a few hoops to make sure isn't a problem or isn't super viable in the Deck. I can name a few right off the bat: Fabled Ragin, Reptilliane Hydra, Mazera DeVille. All of these cards have a TON of power to them, and have the potential to be ridiculous in said Deck, maybe it already is ridiculous in it. Rather than let all of these happen and either end up with a lot of cards on the Duel Portal banlist or a lot of ideas going down the drain, I have decided to put up this thread to allow for such cards to "redeem" themselves of being as ridiculous as they are and give the archetype or set of cards it is assigned to an actual chance of being able to be supported. In addition, since said card is assumed now to be fair, if its conditions make it less than practical, I will allow its conditions to be adjusted to fit its needs. Let's take a look at the aforementioned Mazera DeVille and brushing it up: [Spoiler Mazera DeVille] [/spoiler] While there are other cards and things that have limited Fiends before from having their time in success, Mazera I feel is the greatest setback to them. There is a lot of potential within cards like Archfiend Empress, Dark Necrofear, or even a little in Darkness Neosphere or Raviel, Lord of Phantasms, and even more room for Pandemonium to be a legit card. While these all sound nice and all, the problem is when these things start to come to be, Mazera DeVille comes in the picture. Already droppable thanks to Rabbit and Unexpected Dai fetching Warrior of Zera, Archfiend General and Terraforming searching Pandemonium, and Doomdog Octhros fetching Mazera himself already, it's more or less a matter of time before it gets crazy. It's not the first thing that comes to mind, but it is one with some strong potential. This redemption fixes a lot of these things, and opens the doors for Fiends to have a bit of wiggle room. On the topic of the card itself, it still has some power reserved to it, but now it not only -1s yourself, (Yes, it does require you to have a hand) but a Hard OPT keeps it from going wild. In addition, since it now has its place in check, I have took off its Nomi clause, thus allowing it to be Special Summoned by other ways or be Tribute Summoned. (The latter which isn't the hardest thing to do thanks to cards like the Tribute Monuments) I will leave the rest to the people posting, as I encourage discussion and ideas for these, seeing as we have potential for a lot of ways to go with it. Keep in mind, however, that I am restricting these to mostly boss monsters and monsters whose contribution to a win condition is significant, so cards like Infernity Launcher are left to rest. I will leave accepted Redemptions below: [Spoiler Redemptions] [Spoiler Mazera DeVille] [/spoiler] [Spoiler Archlord Kristya] If you have exactly 4 Fairy-Type monsters in your Graveyard, you can Special Summon this card from your hand. When Summoned this way: You can Special Summon 1 of your banished LIGHT Fairy-Type monsters or from your hand. When your opponent would Special Summon a monster(s): Discard 1 card; negate the Special Summon, and if you do, destroy that card. You can only use this effect of "Archlord Kristya" once per turn. You can only control 1 face-up "Archlord Kristya". [/spoiler] [Spoiler Cyber Dragon Infinity] 3 Level 6 LIGHT Machine-type Monsters You can also Xyz Summon "Cyber Dragon Infinity" once per turn by using a "Cyber Dragon Nova" you control as the Xyz Material. (Xyz Materials attached to that monster also become Xyz Materials on this card.) This card gains 200 ATK for each Xyz Material attached to it. Once per turn, during either player's turn: You can Detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; Negate the activation of a card or card effect that targets this face-up card, and destroy it. Once while this card is face-up on the field: You can Banish 1 "Cyber Dragon" from your hand or graveyard and target 1 Special Summoned monster on the field; Attach that target to this card as Xyz Material. [/spoiler] [/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecc_XD Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 in other words, want to make our own erratas of already TCG/OCG cards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted June 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 in other words, want to make our own erratas of already TCG/OCG cards? Essentially, but there is a group of these cards that it is limited to, as described above, particularly problematic boss monsters and/or Extra Deck tools in a Deck that prevent it from getting additional support without making said card put in too much work, like Ragin and Hydra in their respective Decks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecc_XD Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Essentially, but there is a group of these cards that it is limited to, as described above, particularly problematic boss monsters and/or Extra Deck tools in a Deck that prevent it from getting additional support without making said card put in too much work, like Ragin and Hydra in their respective Decks i dont think ragin is a thing tho anyway, seems good, imma search for 1 or 2~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VCR_CAT Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Well yeah, that's the idea. Take old boss monsters that aren't a thing in the real game, but could become very problematic depending on the support we release. It's just another way of both breathing some freshness into old cards so that they can be used more, and also make our own card-creation less restricted by their existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(GigaDrillBreaker) Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Reptilianne Hydra honestly is not in need of errata. It can plus hard, yes, but only with previous setup and if the opponent has already established a board presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecc_XD Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 What about Gottoms? :v Can i power him up? :v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted June 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 What about Gottoms? :v Can i power him up? :vThis isn't about powering up as it is powering down the boss to power up the rest of the members. This is a redemption thread, not an arming thread Reptilianne Hydra honestly is not in need of errata. It can plus hard, yes, but only with previous setup and if the opponent has already established a board presence. You still have proved twice tho with Gargoyle and your continuous trap that supposedly giving what you seem to feel they need breaks it severely. Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier Alexander Romanov Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Water Dragon. It needs an overhaul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(GigaDrillBreaker) Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 You still have proved twice tho with Gargoyle and your continuous trap that supposedly giving what you seem to feel they need breaks it severely. Am I wrong? Thing is, it really isn't broken. It is strong, yes, but broken really is a stretch, simply for the fact that the support does not make it any easier to summon. The effect is very powerful, but to be completely honest it has been overhyped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted June 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Thing is, it really isn't broken. It is strong, yes, but broken really is a stretch, simply for the fact that the support does not make it any easier to summon. The effect is very powerful, but to be completely honest it has been overhyped. This I will admit. Your support seemed more geared toward 8s, but Hydra still is a bamf, and the minute a decent tuner comes for it, it will spell trouble. Therein would lie the prob. I won't go into it in reference to what you have, but it still is something that is a dodgeball. You were fortunate enough to be able to make it so easy because Masked Chameleon is a bro, which I'll admit is clever af. When it gets on its own 2 feet tho, it is one step closer to being the word of the street, which is where something like this would come in if someone else jump in. Congration, you done it! Not everyone else is on the tail tho, which is what this sort of thing is for, breaking down Berlin Walls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatMed Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 here are some b***** that need to be toned-down [spoiler=Honest] During your Main Phase: You can return this face-up card from the field to the hand. During your opponent's Damage Step, when a LIGHT monster you control battles a Special Summoned monster: You can send this card from your hand to the Graveyard; that monster gains ATK equal to half the ATK of the opponent's monster it is battling, until the end of the Battle Phase.You can only use this effect of "Honest" once per turn. [spoiler=Archlord Kristya] If you have exactly 4 Fairy-Type monsters in your Graveyard, you can Special Summon this card from your hand. When Summoned this way: You can Special Summon 1 of your banished LIGHT Fairy-Type monsters or from your hand. When your opponent would Special Summon a monster(s): Discard 1 card; negate the Special Summon, and if you do, destroy that card. You can only use this effect of "Archlord Kristya" once per turn. You can only control 1 face-up "Archlord Kristya". [spoiler=Archlord Zerato] You can Special Summon this card (from your hand) by Tributing 1 face-up "Warrior of Zera" on your side of the field while "The Sanctuary in the Sky" is on the field. You can activate this effect: Both players send 1 card from their side of the field to the Graveyard. You must control a face-up "The Sanctuary in the Sky" to activate and to resolve this effect. You can only activate this effect of "Archlord Zerato" once per turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecc_XD Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 here are some b***** that need to be toned-down[spoiler=Honest] [spoiler=Archlord Kristya] [spoiler=Archlord Zerato] I dont think honest need a nerf other than the hard OPT, krystia is useless in this way, i would not use it, and Zerato is fine, is the best of the 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatMed Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I dont think honest need a nerf other than the hard OPT, krystia is useless in this way, i would not use it, and Zerato is fine, is the best of the 3Honest needs nerfs because bujins exist, even with a hard OPT alone he would be stay at 2Kristya is now a walking Solemn Warning (for SS), so I dunno why you found it useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VCR_CAT Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 A reminder that this isn't retooling often-used cards for reasons of being OP; this is PURELY for under-used BOSS MONSTERS that restrict what archetypes we make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecc_XD Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Honest needs nerfs because bujins exist, even with a hard OPT alone he would be stay at 2Kristya is now a walking Solemn Warning (for SS), so I dunno why you found it uselessBecause is 1 sided, also waste my hand, only would be usefull in Herald/Star Seraph/ tethys decks, all other fairies would be hurted, and still let you SS, just that you choose which one dies and which not, and only affects your opponent, and need hand to activate it.Also Honest just cuz Bujin is like my AoJ HQ being nerfed because Light-Impression.Honest is a good card, but it doesnt make your deck wins just bcuz you have it, also there are plenty ways to get rid of it, or avoid it effect, like BoM or Mind Crush.And VCR is right, this post is for Boss Monster like Grapha, Herald of Perfection, Amazoness Que en or stuff, not for annoying cards over-used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodfusion Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Are these changes going to be actually implemented onto their cards on DP? If so, that could be extremely confusing for someone who was unaware the card they were wanting to use has been 'redeemed'. I personally would think it would be best for you to remake them as new cards with the same name but part of a "Redeemed" series, for example "Redeemed - Mazera DeVille". Obviously they would have no support to make them an archetype, but I think it would be necessary to avoid confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted June 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Are these changes going to be actually implemented onto their cards on DP? If so, that could be extremely confusing for someone who was unaware the card they were wanting to use has been 'redeemed'. I personally would think it would be best for you to remake them as new cards with the same name but part of a "Redeemed" series, for example "Redeemed - Mazera DeVille". Obviously they would have no support to make them an archetype, but I think it would be necessary to avoid confusion.On DP, they can be marked with a special Set ID and be marked as [Redeemed] or [Errata] right next to their nameI dont think honest need a nerf other than the hard OPT, krystia is useless in this way, i would not use it, and Zerato is fine, is the best of the 3Kristya's errata isn't that bad actually, and tbh, I feel it needs to not be a blow out card in the environment of having as much Fairy support and archetypes as DP has had a history of. It also feels like an issue instantly in the fact that we have 3 Scepter and Soverignity. It should be noted tho that the way it is now it is more Black Horn than Warning because it negates the Summon, and is full on mandatory, so it still is quite deadly vs basically anything but Fusion based Decks, practically saying "The first Xyz or Synchro you make is dead.", albeit with a discard attached to it. It isn't as crazy as it was before, but it certainly is worth it. Honest tbh doesn't fit the intent of this thread, and I still don't like the idea of it returning to the hand, it literally lets you revive it via say Call of the Haunted and instantly make it live in hand. The errata presented here tho I could live with. Bujin wouldn't be a reason to address it, but Honest does limit the range of Fairy support quite a bit, which is where I can see Bat approaching both of them for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatMed Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 On DP, they can be marked with a special Set ID and be marked as [Redeemed] or [Errata] right next to their nameKristya's errata isn't that bad actually, and tbh, I feel it needs to not be a blow out card in the environment of having as much Fairy support and archetypes as DP has had a history of. It also feels like an issue instantly in the fact that we have 3 Scepter and Soverignity. It should be noted tho that the way it is now it is more Black Horn than Warning because it negates the Summon, and is full on mandatory, so it still is quite deadly vs basically anything but Fusion based Decks, practically saying "The first Xyz or Synchro you make is dead.", albeit with a discard attached to it. It isn't as crazy as it was before, but it certainly is worth it. Honest tbh doesn't fit the intent of this thread, and I still don't like the idea of it returning to the hand, it literally lets you revive it via say Call of the Haunted and instantly make it live in hand. The errata presented here tho I could live with. Bujin wouldn't be a reason to address it, but Honest does limit the range of Fairy support quite a bit, which is where I can see Bat approaching both of them forboth Krystia and honest are a pain in the a** when you try to design a Fairy-Type generic support (same with fiends and BA ><) Because is 1 sided, also waste my hand, only would be usefull in Herald/Star Seraph/ tethys decks, all other fairies would be hurted, and still let you SS, just that you choose which one dies and which not, and only affects your opponent, and need hand to activate it.Also Honest just cuz Bujin is like my AoJ HQ being nerfed because Light-Impression.Honest is a good card, but it doesnt make your deck wins just bcuz you have it, also there are plenty ways to get rid of it, or avoid it effect, like BoM or Mind Crush.And VCR is right, this post is for Boss Monster like Grapha, Herald of Perfection, Amazoness Que en or stuff, not for annoying cards over-usedKrystia won't waste your hand since it can only activates its effect once per turn, also It was made like that to balance it a bitAnd it's true that "Honest" doesn't fit this thread XD (my bad), but if you start arguing with match-ups, then all OP cards won't be... well... won't be OP cards XD.Also, they won't limit it if it wasn't a really **** in LIGHT.deks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted June 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 both Krystia and honest are a pain in the a** when you try to design a Fairy-Type generic support (same with fiends and BA ><)Tuesday can attest to this Krystia won't waste your hand since it can only activates its effect once per turn, also It was made like that to balance it a bitLet's also not forget that in LIGHT Fairy.dek, where this will be best used in, in DP, you have Santificia Me, which lets you draw a few cards, 1 which probably would be good enough for this thing. And it's true that "Honest" doesn't fit this thread XD (my bad), but if you start arguing with match-ups, then all OP cards won't be... well... won't be OP cards XD.Also, they won't limit it if it wasn't a really **** in LIGHT.deks Well, at least you took the approach correctly in terms of getting around cards that limit design, two common ones. But yes, matchups should not be a huge discussion rather than the assorted power and potential in 1 card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
宇佐見 蓮子@C94 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 [spoiler=Giant-ass Effect]3 Level 6 LIGHT Machine-type MonstersYou can also Xyz Summon "Cyber Dragon Infinity" once per turn by using a "Cyber Dragon Nova" you control as the Xyz Material. (Xyz Materials attached to that monster also become Xyz Materials on this card.) This card gains 200 ATK for each Xyz Material attached to it. Once per turn, during either player's turn: You can Detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; Negate the activation of a card or card effect that targets this face-up card, and destroy it. Once while this card is face-up on the field: You can Banish 1 "Cyber Dragon" from your hand or graveyard and target 1 Special Summoned monster on the field; Attach that target to this card as Xyz Material. EDIT: This was made with the Ptolemaeus retrain in mind where it can only summon generic rank 5s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatMed Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Well, at least you took the approach correctly in terms of getting around cards that limit design, two common ones. But yes, matchups should not be a huge discussion rather than the assorted power and potential in 1 card.I don't believe that I'm actually discussing something *0* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecc_XD Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 First Batmed and now toyo...Gosh. I knew this would happen...No futher comments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatMed Posted June 14, 2015 Report Share Posted June 14, 2015 [spoiler=Number 86: Heroic Champion - Rhongomiant] **Effect: 2 or more (max. 5) Level 4 Warrior-Type monstersDuring each of your opponent's End Phases: Detach 1 Xyz Material from this card. This card gains effects based on the number of Xyz Materials attached to it.● 1 or more: This card cannot be destroyed by battle.● 2 or more: This card gains 1500 ATK and DEF.● 3 or more: This card is unaffected by other monster effects.● 4 or more: Neither player can Special Summon monsters.● 5 or more: Once per turn: You can destroy all face-up or Set cards your opponent controls. First Batmed and now toyo...Gosh. I knew this would happen...No futher comments...waat ._. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecc_XD Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 [spoiler=Number 86: Heroic Champion - Rhongomiant] waat ._.The only Heroic and the cannot be destroyed by monster effs is too much, the rest is okAlso is just that you 2 are nerfing way to hard the cards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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