Generic non-targeting, non-destruction removal list

[Partangle the Candle Jangler]

My 3 valid suggestions totally forgotten.

[Dramatic Crossroad]

I'd think of Triverr as being semi-generic. Fairy Knight Ingunar definitely is. And of course Number 7. Extinction on Schedule.

 

Tinkerer, can you backtrack and renew the list, missed my Ectoplasmer too

[CLG Klavier]

Let's list more cards that are played in specific decks, therefore considered "garbage" by some people: 

 

A Major Upset, Stinging Swordman, Flip-Flop Frog, Mist Valley Soldier + Sky Cavalry Centaurea + Legendary Jujitsu Master + Wall of Illusion,

 

Since "Crass Clown" has no new updated errata, i'm not sure if it targets at activation or "targets" at resolution.

Played in specific decks =/= generic?

 

Also most of those ARE garbage.

[宇佐見 蓮子@C94]

Ignister is probs the best NTR NDR removal out there today :o

[Slinky]

Ignister is probs the best NTR NDR removal out there today :o

 Yeah, funk this card to hell and back.

[Tinkerer]

*Whew* Added all the suggestions in + a few more I found.

 

@Klav:

It's true a lot of these suck/are very conditional, but that isn't what I wanted with the list. It's just the fact that there doesn't seem to be a current comprehensive list (from what I've seen) online at all. This is for the general knowledge of the Yugioh community at large. And who knows? Maybe one of these cards become big because of their niche!

[Astolfo]

Are you trying to like

Anti-Majespecter

[Blake]

Why would there be a list like that, though? =x

 

Not to be rude, but it's asinine to do so, as the good ones will be known/discovered, and the bad ones will be ignored.

 

For an example, Centaurea may be under the radar, but that's the fact that R2/Level 2 is overall garbage. That's the case for a few, but you should look at monsters of a given rank when building a deck, anyways, instead of blindly going "oh these are good cards I've seen".

 

The only ones you need to know are Stellarknight Triverr, Madolche Queen Tiaramisu, Ignister Prominence the Blasting Dracoslayer, HTS Psyhemuth, the self-summoners (even then, really only the Kaiju and Lava Golem, and mostly jsut to be ready for them), Time-Space Trap Hole, and possibly Old Entity Chthugha, Pot of Taboos, Odd-Eyes Gravity Dragon, D.D. Warrior Lady, and Neo-Spacian Grand Mole. And most of the possiblies are probably nos.

 

Non-Targetting removal is either uncommon or low quality, and it's just not worth compiling a list of 'generic' ways when these cards are reasons to play their decks for the most part. Psyhemuth isn't, but Kaiju, Triverr, Tiaramisu, and Ignister definitely are. 'Generic' ones are fairly unknown for a good reason. Time-Space is only good in the OCG, really.

 

And let's revisit Centaurea; In the case of, say, Majespecter, it's useless in that matchup, making it even moreso "this is why it's under the radar".

 

The Monarchs Storm Forth falls under Kaiju/Golem.

[Tinkerer]

@Black

 

Again, my reasoning for compiling this is more so to compile "knowledge for the sake of knowledge". As you say, this type of removal is uncommon so it is for the sake of curiosity that I'm listing them. Others might be curious and end up finding a useful tech (as unlikely as it may be).

 

I'll admit, I have not begun any competitive yugioh career (and thus often side with casual players), but I am not ignorant of what is good and what isn't. My place isn't winning championships. My place is to help and inspire others to learn and become better themselves, whether through creativity or general understanding.

 

Now, as I loathe arguing, let's just leave it as you have your reasoning and I have mine, deal?

[Blake]

I had a decent sized post, but then I glitched.

 

First off, that's not an argument. Points being presented does not an argument make.

 

Moving on, I am a casual player. Seriously. I don't play the metagame, though I try to understand it and often try to figure out the ins and outs of assorted decks, regardless of where they end up, before they hit/get their best support (Yang Zing, Shaddoll, Ppal [pure's success post-BOSH will be the telling points], D/D/D, Nekroz, Ritual Beasts, Zefra, Igknights, Red-Eyes, Clownblade Seraph [i got close, the deck was just hit preemptively], Majespecters), just to see how close I get and understand the cards better. Being casual does not mean running a poorly made deck and just accepting it as such. Standards still exist in doing so, and decks can, and should, be optimized. And you have to understand that some decks simply do not work on any real level (such as Fableds) or simply can't function quite enough (Hunder), even in a casual sense.

 

And it's not that cards like these are rare... OP has a list of a lot of them. It's that they're generally made with low or gimmicky quality, unless they're tied to a specific decktype(s) (Trishula to a degree, TMSF, Ignister) or Archetype (Triverr, Tiaramisu). There are exceptions, but they're made in a way that suggests you need to jump through hoops to make them work (Rafflesia [in theory alone], C9, Enterblathnir, etc.).

You can't really make a list, because the list is just a bunch of bad cards with no discussion other than "oh, this techncially fits!". And that's because they're, by and large, bad and not worth running.

 

Like, this thread is askign for something that's arguably more powerful than generic negation. Would you make a list for that? No, because it'd boil down to CDI, with mentions of semi-generic cards like Odd-Eyes Vortex Dragon, the Naturia Synchros + Exterio, and so on.

 

Like, yeah, Centaurea's a good card, but if you were building R2, you should definitely look up R2s instead of just blindly slapping cards you know exist into a deck. Even then, he's slow and not entirely efficient, as there are not a ton of cards you want to remove like that.

 

Or Elephammer. I just had a topic about how that card was always and is still bad. Why?
A. You had 2.5 other cards you would much rather Normal Summon; Friendonkey, Salutiger, and Whip Snake. Especially donkey, as reusing Sorc from the grave was the name of the game (still is, tbh).

B. On release, its only searcher was Sorceror. This means you probably had used an NS that turn, which makes it completely inefficient.

C. Its effect is way, way too slow to be of true use.

D. Its only positive assets were Beast-typing and its name, which had better cards that fit both. Salutiger (beast-warrior is just as well) and Silver Claw.

 

There are plenty of well known cards that do one (Nukes, for example) or the other (Castel, 101, etc.), but...

The only real reason to ask for an overlap of these two different types of effects is Majespecter. And in that case... You just don't beat them, casually. It is probably THE most difficult deck to beat while playing an undermeta/casual deck, because it outplays decks that don't have built-in means to deal with them, without even trying. All you can really do is pray they bricked (not too hard, though BOSH likely will fix this) and/or force your way through.

Tempest + Pendulum Scales t1/2 is game against most decks. Even top decks can have trouble with a deck like this, and cards like Triverr (especially) or other ED answers that do both things OP asked for don't, because the deck naturally outplays cards of that ilk. You have to focus on S/T (Odd-Eyes Advent and Shaddoll Fusion help a lot) to really beat them, and there's not many generic cards that do both that and what the OP asks.

 

Archfiend Eccentrick, MST, etc. are your best bets that aren't floodgates, and those aren't great against 3-4 card backrows.

 

The only other answer to them is Denko, which, again, is not what the OP was looking for. And Fox + Pegasus breaks that, not to mention either of the spells/raigeki in hand + specter, or Xyz. Denko will only buy a turn, like most decks get out of her.

 

There's nothing wrong with being a 'filthy casual' or a 'tourney jabroni', as both of these are stupid things to say outside of jest. There's nothing wrong with creativity, when it's not being used as an excuse to play, build, or present poorly.

 

However, this list isn't creative. It's not helpful. Creative or helpful would be singling out a card or two and pointing out how they can help and if it's a good idea (for example, Share the Pain COULD be used against Majespecter. Very low chance it would be, but it's a way to clear one of their guys, and that can win an early game, so the thought has merit), not just saying "Everyone, get iiiin here!". This just feels patronizing and as if it's using casual and creative as shields, as opposed to thinking it through and finding out which of these have implications worthy of being discussed, which is evident by this being the only discussion here.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

There is no harm in this topic. Yes, the majority of these are utter sheet, but who funking cares? If anything, this is a game of trying to think of things that work. This isn't supposed to be some useful guide. He already said he is doing it just to do it.

[Blake]

There is no harm in this topic. Yes, the majority of these are utter sheet, but who funking cares? If anything, this is a game of trying to think of things that work. This isn't supposed to be some useful guide. He already said he is doing it just to do it.

If it's a game, put it in games. We've had mention of how this section needs more discussion, and this really is just a game. This doesn't teach anyone anything (bar X exists), doesn't encourage better deck building, and is just a random empty list that tackles a decently narrow subset of effects that really don't need to be tackled generically, as there are very few of quality.

 

These aren't even things that work. They're things that technically fit. But I explained that virtually the only time you need both combined (barring BA, which is moreso non-sending needed) doesn't actually need them, as they're not an adequate answer.

 

Share the Pain/Centaurea make sense as topics to go into card choices (as these should not be frowned upon as long as there is some genuine thought to it; I did that with teching Wonder Wand in Clownblade Seraph), but cards like Stinging Swordsman are just not worth mentioning.

[Tinkerer]

If you wish to promote discussion, fine! Let us discuss potential uses/non-uses of some of the listed cards. Again, it's for the benefit of sharing knowledge and I'm curious about what people think on specific cards.

 

What is on your opinion of the card "Ferret Firestorm"? It isn't always live, but massive spinning (especially vs pendulum decks) seems like it could become very useful with pendulums on the rise.

[Tinkerer]

Bump. Any more anyone can think of?

[Sleepy]

If you wish to promote discussion, fine! Let us discuss potential uses/non-uses of some of the listed cards. Again, it's for the benefit of sharing knowledge and I'm curious about what people think on specific cards.

 

What is on your opinion of the card "Ferret Firestorm"? It isn't always live, but massive spinning (especially vs pendulum decks) seems like it could become very useful with pendulums on the rise.

 

I understand what your goal is, and this is even the kind of topic I'd probably think about doing somewhere at some point, but I think Black is right in that this topic can't really produce a discussion. You can't really make a huge list of cards and ask people to discuss them individually within the same thread. That is what this whole part of the forum is supposed to be for so trying a thread as a forum section on itself sounds like an issue that I've seen brought up in the past. It is like going to the custom card section, making a thread and saying "from now own give me a list of your created cards and we'll discuss them in this thread".

 

About the suggestion of moving it: I would have thought that this is the right section at first glance, but it is true that it is essentially just asking for the gathering of cards. I don't know about taking it to games, though I also don't think it'd fit in the theory section either. The issue with over there could be the amount of traffic and type of posters of the section being different, but probably it can't be helped.

 

If you do move/remake/update/whatever this: I think you are probably better off dividing it up in sub-sections. Sometimes you can find gems that destroy without targeting. Sometimes you can find targeting goodies that don't destroy. Though you mostly aren't very likely to find many worthwhile cards that'll be both non-destruction and non-target, which is fine. You might even find cards that both target and destroy. Sometimes cards that look like they'd get the short end of the stick in that regard can end up having more a fitting place in builds and downright outclass the benefits of the kind of removal you might be looking for. So it is worth looking into different angles since decks won't always have that one single card that fits them and fixes all their problems like that.

 

 

 

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The card you suggest to have up for discussion here: Ferret Flames (after looking it up in wikipedia).

That card is definitely powerful and effective on its own. However, it requires specific conditions to be filled as an exchange for not having a cost. It is as generic as Needle Ceiling, but just like Needle Ceiling, it is only really likely to see play when the deck can meet the criteria consistently.

 

In Needle Ceiling's case you can run it in something like Ghostricks or PACMAN because those consistently cough up monsters that can get themselves face-down, making Needle Ceiling like a quick Raigeki much of the time.

 

With Ferret Flames, you need decks that can consistently use-up your LP quickly and from early game as part of their natural gimmick, all while still having you competently protected from damages that'd more easily finish you up. Then Ferret Flames would get splashable enough to be more than a tech.

That presents a pretty heavy issue for the card's usability because you have to get your LP from your initial 8000 to low enough that no matter what your opponent brings out, everything they own will be affected by it. Meanwhile, such a strategy needs also not depend on this card's usage to play well. I don't know if such a theme exists to perfectly fit this card yet. We have old Psychics that payed a lot of LP but their gameplay also included gaining LP back to not die too easily. You have mostly anything that can use Chicken Race or Hope for an Escape, but those don't really care about your opponent's monsters in their usual focus to begin with.

 

The card stays for now as an interesting tech at best for a surprise element late game until something suitable enough for it can be created down the road. It definitely has potential though.

[Slinky]

Isn't Centaurea under the radar because its not a Rank 4?