League of Legends

[Brinolovania]

When I say ping spikes I mean >1000.  It was really bad.  We still won at least. 

I had the same issue, although not to that extreme.

[CLG Klavier]

"Azir's kit is toxic and has no counterplay"

 

I just heard that

 

ERM

 

THE COUNTERPLAY IS KINDA

 

NOT STANDING ON HIS FUCKING SOLDIERS YO

[Pyur]

>Facetank his E after he Q's

>Watch as poor little Azir frantically tries to escape your wrath

>????

>Profit

 

That's how I do it anyway

[CLG Klavier]

[M]e, [F]riend

 

M & F: *waiting in Team Builder for support*

F: Ugh, let's play a normal.

M: Yeah, fair enough.

F: Why the fuck did they ever made this, it's stupid and useless!
M: But it's not the system's fault that we always wait for the support.

F: Yes it is, Riot fucked up as usual!

M: ...it's people for heaven's sake. Not Riot's fault there is 1 support to 30 midlaners.

F: Whatever. *hangs up Skype*

 

:v

[:^)]

riot should make support more fun

[The Amazing Avian]

I don't like support with incompetent adcs. Give me someone with a frontal lobe though, 0/3/18 Thresh incoming.

[Brinolovania]

This is why I basically only ever do teambuilder if I'm duo, and then we go ADC and support so that we can actually get a game.

 

I am surprised the queue times are still as long as usual now, even with the new Rift on teambuilder.

[Poc]

I like playing support. I don't like abusive ADCs that blame you when they have 14cs at 10 minutes.

[Dad]

riot should make support more fun

 

Hey, I resent that.  I enjoy playing support, and I do find it fun.  v.v

 

I like playing support. I don't like abusive ADCs that blame you when they have 14cs at 10 minutes.

 

*high five*

[Aerion Brightflame]

This is just me asking out of personal curiosity, since I'm primarily a DOTA player and thus this is a strange world to me, but what do supports actual do in League? 

 

Since, I don't think my understanding of supports in MOBA's will be applicable for LoL, simply because well there are two of them per competently made team in DOTA, and only 1 in LoL (Thus the workload seems to be higher). 

 

Thus I'd love it if someone could out-line to stuff expected in LoL from a support, since I'm curious about the differences between MOBA's from both the major to the minor details. 

[Poc]

They control the lane so their carries can farm in peace.

[Alice Moonflowyr]

Basically, the support is the Mom for the whole team. They exist to make sure their teammates don't die, whether that's by healing them, facetanking everything, or CCing the enemy.

 

The support provides a crap-ton of utility in their kit, usually including at least one stun or other hard cc somewhere, sometimes two. The idea with the support is they need to be useful without farm, so they do things like buy a Sightstone, support-oriented GP10 items, and they provide utility and CC for the team.

 

That's lategame.

 

Early game, they go botlane with the ADC, the squishiest and most useless out of everyone early game. They basically exist to make sure the squishy, useless ADC doesn't die for the first 15 minutes of the game.

[Aerion Brightflame]

So essentially just being a what is a Lane support is for DOTA. Interesting. How does controllng lane equilibrium work in LoL? You can't deny, I've no idea about creep pulling, so how do you maintain creep equilibrium? 

 

What about early game rotations? Like assuming your Carry is doing well Bot does the support leave lane to apply pressure on other lanes, or attempt to gank them? I know they don't jungle stack because a jungler is a constant for LoL. 

[Poc]

Lane control is more or less having vision control of the jungle so you can spot ganks or roamers. If you have the advantage in lane and your safe from ganks you push into their tower making it harder for the enemy to farm. If your lane is getting fed you can roam mid to help there but its better to take the tower first so you get the gold advantage. If you understand how creep waves work you can control the lane that way too but thats pretty advanced stuff.

[Alice Moonflowyr]

You can deny, just not in the same way. You deny the enemy farm by zoning them, basically you and your support position in such a way that if the enemy ADC tries to farm, they get pounced on and will probably die.

 

And the support usually stays botlane until the first tower falls. Then the duo will roam around the map and apply pressure to other lanes. Supports CAN roam before then, but it can be a risky move, as even a fed ADC can fall easily in a 2v1 early game.

[Brinolovania]

Also, in case you don't know, LoL has two big "bosses", as opposed to just Roshan. Barons is the equivalent to him, and then dragon is a mini-boss that a team can take by about 10 minutes-ish. The support and ADC usually go bot lane, the lane closest to dragon, and it's also the support's job (along with the jungler) to keep vision control of dragon, and to make the call when to go for it. 

 

And even though there is only one support, the jungler usually helps with warding, and sometimes they basically play like a support who farms camps.

[Aerion Brightflame]

Oh I know you can Zone, I wasn't really questioning that, I was just wondering about lane equilibrium. Since you want to ensure the lane stays away from either tower, but still closer to yours than there's to give you an advantage (Discouraging them from being aggressive and thus discouraging dives). One of the big things about lane supports to my understanding is they primarily want to ensure your carry gets the best farm possible, and lane equilibrium is a huge part of that. (Whilst also securing them levels and farm)

 

Why do you say it's harder for the enemy to farm under there tower? Even with the added tower damage it should still be more than possible to farm (Assuming you adjust for tower damage when C/S'ing), and it lets the opponent get said farm safely (Since you don't dive a tier 1 tower to contest farm). At the very least it's giving them free experience.  

 

So yeah just a lane support then. That's kinda disappointing. I hoped there'd be a bit more variety than that. (Not trying to start anything, it's just my opinion given I'm used to supports having massive amounts of variety in in game roles)

 

EDIT:

 

Also, in case you don't know, LoL has two big "bosses", as opposed to just Roshan. Barons is the equivalent to him, and then dragon is a mini-boss that a team can take by about 10 minutes-ish. The support and ADC usually go bot lane, the lane closest to dragon, and it's also the support's job (along with the jungler) to keep vision control of dragon, and to make the call when to go for it. 

 

And even though there is only one support, the jungler usually helps with warding, and sometimes they basically play like a support who farms camps.

 

Yeah I know about Dragon and Baron. And that Baron is probably harder than Roshan, but gives a more powerful buff (Arguably. The fact it's a team-wide buff as opposed to simply being a single characters extra life like the Aegis makes it close.)

 

 

[Poc]

Pushing to the tower makes it harder for them to last hit mobs, you can deny them creep waves by pushing to the tower when they are not in lane as well. You do give them more EXP though but mid game that's not as big an issue as it is early game.

[Alice Moonflowyr]

Well, there are mainly 3 different types of supports that can definitely change how the lane is played. There are Poke supports, Sustain supports, and All-In supports.

 

Poke supports, like Sona, do a lot of 'poke' damage, which is a one-off attack that does a decent amount of damage. Sona can poke the enemy laners a ton, leaving them low and giving your ADC a much easier time farming minions.

 

Sustain supports like Soraka let you farm minions while taking aggro, cus they can just heal up the damage that was dealt to you. They allow you to trade with the enemy laner and win trades a lot more often.

 

Then there are the All-In supports like Thresh and Leona. These supports don't really help you farm minions, they help you farm champions. Leona and Thresh are very good at early level all-ins, and can usually net a kill if paired with a good ADC.

 

There's a kind of RPS dynamic when it comes to supports too. Poke supports usually beat out All-In supports, because you cant really all-in at half HP. Sustain supports beat out Poke supports, because the heals nullify the poke. Then All-In supports beat the piss out of Sustain supports, because they can easily 100-0 someone, heals or no.

 

Then of course there are the supports that are a kind of mix of the two. Taric is kind of a hybrid of Sustain and All-In, because he has a targeted stun that makes a great initiator for an all-in, and he has a heal that makes him a decent sustainer. But his all-in is far weaker than that of Leona, a full All-In support, and his sustain is noticeably weaker than Soraka, a full Sustain support.

 

So there's a lot of variety INSIDE the support role, and each role does something different for the team.

[Brinolovania]

Why do you say it's harder for the enemy to farm under there tower? Even with the added tower damage it should still be more than possible to farm (Assuming you adjust for tower damage when C/S'ing), and it lets the opponent get said farm safely (Since you don't dive a tier 1 tower to contest farm). At the very least it's giving them free experience.  

It is possible to farm under turrets, but pushing people in works pretty well in low-rank games, just because a lot of players suck at it down there.

 

And yeah, the support role is pretty much laning, although there is a LOT more roaming at high ranks. Supports are probably simpler in League, 'cause the meta is pretty static (1-1-2-jung), and you almost never differ from that.

[Aerion Brightflame]

 

Pushing to the tower makes it harder for them to last hit mobs, you can deny them creep waves by pushing to the tower when they are not in lane as well. You do give them more EXP though but mid game that's not as big an issue as it is early game.

 

Is tower damage still essentially formulaic? So as in X tower shots kill a creep, where X is on average a number of Champion attacks additionally (Like in DOTA a tower shot is essentially two Hero hits, thus you just add in a single extra attack)? Since if so Last hitting is still pretty easy under towers, you just have to add in an additional number of attacks at a given point. 

 

So there's a lot of variety INSIDE the support role, and each role does something different for the team.

 

Yeah, I'd never expect all supports to play exactly the same. That would just be dull and make the usable support pool tiny. But they just seem to me to all fit the overall category of lane support and are thus focused around winning your lane regardless of the way they achieve this. Where as there is so much more variety to potentially be had with this. I suppose less so given how static lane set-ups are for LoL, and that logically you'd just go all in for winning the arguably most important lane. 

 

How well do supports scale past laning then? Say for example do they just drop off entirely as Carry's hit relevence, or do they still hold game winning potential thanks to key disables in team-fights. I'm assuming it depends on the support, but you never know. (Part of this is just me wondering due to the comments about how fun support can be. If supports basically just win a lane and then let the carry do near anything, then I can understand people being disapointed with the role. I personally love support because well played supports in DOTA are more than capable of winning games at any point from minute 0 to minute like 60. And I wonder if the same is true here). 

[Alice Moonflowyr]

Supports make or break the lategame.

 

No joke. Supports more often then not bring almost all of the CC and initiation power to the team. A well placed Flash+Ulti from Sona, Morgana, or Leona, a good grab from Thresh or Blitz, those can and will win games. Supports are crazy important lategame.

 

Or they can bring heavy disengage, like Nami or Zyra. Which, coincidentally, work just as well as initiations.

[Poc]

Yea, tower shots are still like that, forcing them under the tower means they either take the CS and free harass or miss a ton of farm, it also gives you dragon control which is pretty important early game.

 

Supports use to be ward bots after laning phase but recent changes have given them the tools to transition into AP carries or bruisers. Most of the time they are just CC bots that clear wards though.

[Brinolovania]

To add on to what Hanako said, there are some supports that aren't even good in lane phase, such as Blitzcrank, Alistar, and Braum. They basically exist because they're really good in teamfights. Even Soraka, a healer with basically no CC, is great late game because she can spam her heals all over her carries.

[Pyur]

Jumping in a bit late to say

 

In the standard meta, support is the most fun role to play, next to jungler imo, and good supports will carry harder than the thing they've been babysitting in bot ever will.