VampireofDarkness Posted May 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 Then i want Royal Oppression at 2 plz Out there are broken as hell decks that summons like crazy and have too much swarm and destructive effects that are not sane for the game Those Decks should be dealt with then, not using broken cards to deal with broken cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecc_XD Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 Skill Drain and Vanity isnt Broken Cards, and also they are at 1, they are not a threat anymore and we have a lot of ways to deal with them, why Banning those cards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love of Ghibli Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 Skill Drain and Vanity isnt Broken Cards, and also they are at 1, they are not a threat anymore and we have a lot of ways to deal with them, why Banning those cards? Those are broken cards because any one card that keeps both players from an aspect of the game is unfair. Granted I agree that because those cards are at 1 they are far less potent. Its obvious that if you have to really about 1 card in your opponents deck out of 40 the you should be fine. What is happening here though is that most people loathe those improbable instances where they do have to face Vanity's and Skill Drain so much that the community has chosen to just outright ban it. If you cannot empathize or sympathize with how others feel on this matter or understand that as someone opposing these two cards you MAY NOT HAVE A MAGICAL OUT. Then I think you should abandon the conversation and just accept that this is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted May 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 Those are broken cards because any one card that keeps both players from an aspect of the game is unfair. I suppose Ballard has summarized this very well. The rest I also have some thought on, but in that matter, I will try not to rip out on a few people. That aside, it seems like a majority of the community doesn't mind Mathman, so it will be removed until the end of the next tournament, as to determine its impact on DP vs. the TCG. Unlike Armageddon Knight, there aren't quite as many legendary things you can do with it, especially since ROTA can't access it, so I expect it to not be as well rounded. Only time will tell, however, so we will see how this goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecc_XD Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 Those are broken cards because any one card that keeps both players from an aspect of the game is unfair. Granted I agree that because those cards are at 1 they are far less potent. Its obvious that if you have to really about 1 card in your opponents deck out of 40 the you should be fine. What is happening here though is that most people loathe those improbable instances where they do have to face Vanity's and Skill Drain so much that the community has chosen to just outright ban it. If you cannot empathize or sympathize with how others feel on this matter or understand that as someone opposing these two cards you MAY NOT HAVE A MAGICAL OUT. Then I think you should abandon the conversation and just accept that this is happening. Seems like I would not matter about this anymore since we have different concepts about the meta we want for the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VCR_CAT Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 On the subject of Vanity's Emptiness; the card may be balance in design, but in the current gamestate it heavily became a "Draw MST or lose" card. The card single-handedly WON games; not because of the player's skill, not because of the opponent's skill, but because the opponent wasn't lucky enough to draw an out. Not only that, but the presence of the card forced players to compromise potential toolboxes, consistency and strategies so they could maximize their outs to the card. It may have been great when the game was slow and focused on normal summons, but it's very bad for the gamestate now where game is focused on Special Summons. In no way was Vanity's good for the game and deserves the treatment it's getting.On a different subject, with Noden on the outs, how do things look with Super Poly? Would that be good to bring back to 1, or is there fan support that keeps it just as bad as it was with Noden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted May 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 On a different subject, with Noden on the outs, how do things look with Super Poly? Would that be good to bring back to 1, or is there fan support that keeps it just as bad as it was with Noden? Sky Conquerors make it a little frisky, as the Deck has Fusions for every attribute. I personally feel Super Poly with Shaddolls is way better than with Noden, and that's what it would be like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Super Poly is going to forever restrict Fusion design that requires monsters of a certain Attribute, Type, Level, and so forth. So yeah, as evilly fun it is to fuse with an opponent's monster, it's really problematic unless the Fusions in particular aren't that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VCR_CAT Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Strangely enough I had forgotten about Shaddolls; and the fact that they're the original reason that Super Poly got the hit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrus Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 I suggest Djinn, Releaser of Rituals to be banned. In TCG only Nekroz can abuse it but DP already has numerous Ritual Archetypes that can potentially abuse it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted May 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 I suggest Djinn, Releaser of Rituals to be banned. In TCG only Nekroz can abuse it but DP already has numerous Ritual Archetypes that can potentially abuse it as well. Added along with some other suggestions! Discussions and comments on such hits are welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecc_XD Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 I suggest Djinn, Releaser of Rituals to be banned. In TCG only Nekroz can abuse it but DP already has numerous Ritual Archetypes that can potentially abuse it as well. And? Just compulsory, mirror, destroyed by battle or stuff Isnt that bad~ Tho i see what you say but still, there are lot of ways to get rid of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love of Ghibli Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 And? Just compulsory, mirror, destroyed by battle or stuff Isnt that bad~ Tho i see what you say but still, there are lot of ways to get rid of it What do you do if you do not have these cards handy when the djinn lock happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted May 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 And? Just compulsory, mirror, destroyed by battle or stuff Isnt that bad~ Tho i see what you say but still, there are lot of ways to get rid of it Djinn Lock to me is an extreme version of risk and reward. If you lose the lock, you get screwed over to the max. If not, you win. Also Destroyed By Battle usually isn't a factor cause the monster often has 2400+ATK (Or in the case of Clausolas can negate your effect and drop your attack to 0) and Evac is at 1. People sided what people claimed was a bad card just to get around it against Nekroz. Even better is the fact that you can banish it from Grave as part of the cost. That just pushes it over the edge big time, as it is abusable by many things (Most notably Lavalval Chain) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecc_XD Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 But we have a lot more of cards that removed pesty cards like that in DP Greed Thunder and even my new Multi-Spell Paradox does take it out the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted May 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 But we have a lot more of cards that removed pesty cards like that in DP Greed Thunder and even my new Multi-Spell Paradox does take it out the way Where did you see this Greed Thunder card and who the heck made it? It seemed really unfair, also Paradox would stop Ritual Summons in general, so I don't consider it a valid out. I'm talking about cards AFTER the summon of Djinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecc_XD Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Well, some ppl uses it against me 2 times atm, and yeah, i know. I can use it in most of my builds of i want and activate it every time i want w/o problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrus Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 But we have a lot more of cards that removed pesty cards like that in DP Greed Thunder and even my new Multi-Spell Paradox does take it out the way This is like saying Vanity's Emptiness/ Skill Drain aren't a problem because they die to MST. A consistent first-turn Djinn Lock is a nightmare. Not saying DP has archetypes that can consistently pull that off, but the possibility is there. Also, since Vanity's and Skill Drain are banned on DP, I don't see why a card such as Djinn Releaser should be left at 3. It's a floodgate worse than Vanity's Emptiness in the right deck, so I don't think it deserves to stay unbanned. And since we're banning floodgates, I think Majesty's/Vanity's Fiend should also join their ranks (at least limited). But since Djinn is highly searchable, I think it poses a bigger threat than them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Flyer - Sakura Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Yeah, both of them need a good hit; especially considering that a lot of Decks here are SS-oriented. As for Djinn, can't say because I'm more/less out of the loop regarding certain Decks here; but it's still a floodgate in its own right (assuming said monster survives). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecc_XD Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 This is like saying Vanity's Emptiness/ Skill Drain aren't a problem because they die to MST. A consistent first-turn Djinn Lock is a nightmare. Not saying DP has archetypes that can consistently pull that off, but the possibility is there. Also, since Vanity's and Skill Drain are banned on DP, I don't see why a card such as Djinn Releaser should be left at 3. It's a floodgate worse than Vanity's Emptiness in the right deck, so I don't think it deserves to stay unbanned. And since we're banning floodgates, I think Majesty's/Vanity's Fiend should also join their ranks (at least limited). But since Djinn is highly searchable, I think it poses a bigger threat than them. Why ppl wanna ban the cards that dont let you SS? Those carda existe because ppl like us does a lot of SS. I agree, they are kinda OP, but ban is too much for a card that already autodestroy .-. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VCR_CAT Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 You need to be reasonable with By-Principle Bans. Neither of the fiends are really worth banning IMO; they're not the big problem that Emptiness was because it's not like you can chain a summon of either Fiend to an opponent's play. Besides all that, it's not like really any deck RUNS either card. 'Narchs will run Majesty's Fiend and so will 'Phorts ('Narchs can search it), but in either deck it's been pretty easy to deal with at least in my experience. I've yet to see anyone run Vanity's Fiend in a long while. This is kinda like going back and banning Angel O7 because it prevents card effect activation; but literally NOBODY runs that card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampireofDarkness Posted May 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 You need to be reasonable with By-Principle Bans. Neither of the fiends are really worth banning IMO; they're not the big problem that Emptiness was because it's not like you can chain a summon of either Fiend to an opponent's play. Besides all that, it's not like really any deck RUNS either card. 'Narchs will run Majesty's Fiend and so will 'Phorts ('Narchs can search it), but in either deck it's been pretty easy to deal with at least in my experience. I've yet to see anyone run Vanity's Fiend in a long while. This is kinda like going back and banning Angel O7 because it prevents card effect activation; but literally NOBODY runs that card. Actually, 07 is being run in that Rank 7 Fairy Deck IIRC and is searchable. Aside from that tho, it still takes 2 tributes, which killed it. Vanity's Fiend is has been run in a few modern Monarch builds (Particularly the "Tribute Stun" version that was supposedly really consistent), and was also sided in BA/Shaddoll/Qli format to fight against the other, but then Nekroz happened. On the topic of Djinn and Vanity, comparing Djinn to Emptiness in terms of self destruction is nothing short of a lie. The Djinn is much more or a blowout card, and leaves so much flexibility for it to be used and opened with. There is no comparison at all. Also, in general, many Anti SS cards in general tend to become how Royal Oppression was in the TeleDAD and Diva Zombie formats where you have a field that your opponent can do nothing about and you just completely wipe them out. Even with Vanity at 1, I still see it create some absurd one sided situations that are absolutely disgusting. If you want to kill said Decks, there are other options, especially depending on the matchup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrus Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 You need to be reasonable with By-Principle Bans. Neither of the fiends are really worth banning IMO; they're not the big problem that Emptiness was because it's not like you can chain a summon of either Fiend to an opponent's play. Besides all that, it's not like really any deck RUNS either card. 'Narchs will run Majesty's Fiend and so will 'Phorts ('Narchs can search it), but in either deck it's been pretty easy to deal with at least in my experience. I've yet to see anyone run Vanity's Fiend in a long while. This is kinda like going back and banning Angel O7 because it prevents card effect activation; but literally NOBODY runs that card. True, but limiting them to 1 might still be a good idea. Since they would be the few remaining important floodgates on DP (if skill drain, vanity's, djinn releaser stay banned and Kristya is at 1). And with those gone, the fiends become legitimate techs. Also, they limit design freedom on tribute support. True, there isn't a deck on DP (as far as I know) that can take full advantage of them, but I recently tested some Monarch support I made that would be completely fine if not for potential abuse with Vanity/Majesty. on another note, why is Rekindling banned? It really doesn't do enough at 1 to deserve a hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Flyer - Sakura Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 In terms of Vanity's, I'm perfectly fine with it being at 1. If it has to be banned, so be it; but if people don't have problems with it Limited, then fine. (If it really starts acting up, then hit it again) Skill Drain needs to go, indefinitely. As for Rekindling, are there any FIRE monsters with 200 or under DEF on DP that are commonly used to warrant such a thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(GigaDrillBreaker) Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Rekindling is banned because it is simply too much of a lucksack, and the community overall felt it would be better not to have it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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