Opening the box - Casual vs. Competitive

[Tinkerer]

I feel there needs to be a topic like this to discuss (yes, DISCUSS, not ARGUE) the differences between the casual and competitive mindsets.

 

I'll post my thoughts on it later, but I want to see both sides of the coin first.

[Spinny]

I think Black/Robin hit the nail on the head in another topic about this. There isn't really a big difference since even if you have a casual or different deck, you still optimise it to make it as competitive as possible.

[GarlandChaos]

I'm fine with either. I like making casual decks, but it's great to actually win, too. Not that all Casual decks are terrible, of course.

[King K. Azo]

I think Black/Robin hit the nail on the head in another topic about this. There isn't really a big difference since even if you have a casual or different deck, you still optimise it to make it as competitive as possible.

Look, I see what you guys mean, but maybe what's going on is that we define casual differently. I define casual as playing around with my friends, and I don't care if I win or lose. I care about having fun and trying some insane combo, like making Quasar out of Life Stream Dragon (which I actually pulled off by a series of long and complicated moves that would never work in a tournament setting.) or just playing a fun deck like SuperHeavy Samurais (which... Might have tournament potential when all its support comes out, but different story). That's why I don't like people going, "Well, it's not the meta," or "Well, that's stupid and it's not optimized" when I'm being causal. It's not supposed to be. It's for fun and only for my friends I play against.

 

Now, if I came to you saying, "Oh, what do you think of this deck I will enter into a tournament", by all means, tell me about the meta and help me optimize it. That's perfectly fine. I don't mind the competitive mindset, it just depends on the situation.

 

For example, when the new Buster Blader support came out, I saw people going "Well, this won't be meta, how could you do this Komani" while others, including myself, went, "Oh my god, they remembered Buster Blader! Awesome!" And everyone went back and forth about this, VCR Cat and Draco especially. It seemed like the meta minded people wanted to tell casuals we couldn't like this, because it wouldn't be the meta. Now Robin did come in and make a point that from our standpoint, it was more like Komani was more like "Hurr durr durr, legacy, give money", which is an excellent point... but... Honestly, I would want to build these anyways because I like Buster Blader.

 

In the end, there are casuals, there are meta players, and neither one is the 'correct' way to play. But meta people, don't come just come down on the creativity of the casuals with a 'it's meta or bust'. And casuals, just try to understand meta people don't see the game the same way. They go for optimum victory while casual goes for fun and sometimes honestly impractical plays. Just try to read the situation and don't be a dick about your standpoint.

[Tinkerer]

Hello, fine peoples!

 

I think Saiku summed things up quite well from the side of casual players.  Between casual and competitive, the big key difference is mindset.

 

My view is that the mindsets aren't completely black and white (is anything?).  There are casual players who would want to perfect their preferred deck to the point where it could run against meta decks and there are competitive players who are willing to throw in an unusual tech choice for the fun of it (and because it might come in useful).  However, the primary mindset I've seen is that:

 

Casual mindset = fun

Competitive mindset = winning

 

Again, I am not saying there aren't casual players who want to win or competitive players who want to have fun (who knows, if Shaddolls weren't fun, would they have been meta-relevant for this long?), but that is the core mindset.  Neither mindset is wrong, just different, and I feel that it's time for both sides to realize this.

 

Of course, if I am wrong, by all means, let me know!  I would like to hear further opinions!

[Blake]

The problem is that casual players (this site is certainly no exception) throw it around as an excuse. Like with the Buster Blader thread. Instead of acknowledging that Konami has, with at least 2 recent examples, used Legacy Support as nothing more than a means to bait nostalgia, they got happy about it and got mad if it was looked at with skepticism.

 

Instead of the skepticism, which had merit, being treated as such, calls for "tourneyfaggotry" and what not were made. No one in the thread assessed the cards on a competitive level, they were treated as casual cards. Even in those terms, BLS, for example, was utter garbage, and Red-Eyes really only gleaned 1 truly good card and a few decent ones. And these are over promos and mediums. The decent ones have a lot of potential, but that's it.

 

The fact that these cards are not playable in a setting short of one made for them is appalling, and it should not be encouraged. You are being baited, and then you get mad if someone points it out. Does BB looks to have some more potential? Sure, but it didn't at the time the thread was made. A new card changed that, and it still doesn't tell us if it's enough or not. Skepticism is fine, because Konami already took a legacy sheet on us twice in a row.

 

BLS cannot compete with decks like, say, Battlin' Boxers, Crystal Beasts, Resonators, and so on. This was a waste of space, but then we have people advocating 'different levels of power'. No, that is a poorly designed set of cards in every way, including casual playability. They can't keep up with anything, so there's no way to play it outside of a format/matchups with only it or other really old neglected decks.

 

For funk's sake, I am a casual player. Almost everyone on this site is casual at best. iHop and Zauls are about the only people who were active recently that truly were.

 

Does that mean I'm going to run something that's blatantly bad? No. I won't run Jutte Fighter/Torapart so I can be cute when I make my Goyos. I won't even run the Goyos, aside from Guardian (if 2800 is relevant), King, or Emperor. Defender is the only thing left to tell us if the last one is relevant, but the first two aren't dreadful, just not amazing.

 

For example, Rank-Up-Magics. These are casual as sheet (OCG using them in the past doesn't mean anything), as there's no real way to run them efficiently. They're -1s that increase your power, but risk dead draws and eat ED slots. Feel free to build a Rank-Up build of something, by all means. But don't run 3 LBF 3 BF and 3 NF just because. That's just dumb, and anyone can see how that hurts the deck as a whole, as opposed to just making a somewhat gimmicky build.

 

Gimmicks are fine. Being cute is fine. Running 3x Partnaga, however, is an example of making a blatantly poor choice. And this is what should not be smiled upon.

 

Don't get me wrong, competitive mindsets can go too far, but there has to be an understanding of why they say such. Like with that Kogarosho 51 card deck FinalDan posted. Aside from reposting a deck with zero insight or thoughts added, it just wasn't a coherent idea. YGTubing reflects the worst of the 'casual so stfu' mindset. I'm not telling you waht you can or cannot watch, but understand that you are watching something that is, in all likelihood, very poor.

 

Instead of understanding this, or at the very least ignoring it, the person who pressed the issue was attacked for it, and then they retaliated, creating a sheet storm. I just gave up, because I knew nothing good would come of it, and that no one would listen, but that does not change that both sides were in the wrong by the end, for how they showed their asses. It wasn't until the thread was about to be locked that people realized their flaws, and how the criticisms were legitimate.

 

Casual is not an excuse to make poor choices. Casual is not an excuse to throw a pile together and call it a deck.

Do what you want with friends, but understand that these are sections for competitive discussion. Yes, even casual has competitive mindset added, as it should, and 'for fun' is just another example of an excuse to hide behind. You can have fun without purposely making something bad, especially if you post that deck in the deck section. You are asking for them to tell you what's wrong wit hit, and being 'casual' changes nothing about that.
 

Stop using it as some banner to gather behind when a point is made. Casual is simply not being a full blown competitive player. Not going to tournaments, not knowing all the ins and outs, and often preferring to play decks that aren't the best decks. And you can still make competitive contributions/ideas as such, as there's a well known poster on DGz who posts the most gimmicky and bullshit ideas, but some of them are hits. And this should not be shunned, thinking outside the box to find outs and the like is fine. However, don't post Hade Hane and say it's good in Shaddoll or some sheet.

[Maeriberii Haan]

There's no issue on whether you want to have fun, to win, to have both, or neither.

 

There's never any pressure on whether you should be competitive or not, or whether you should keep up with the game or not.

 

The divide between casual and competitive is silly, really.

 

The biggest difference in mindset? Pretty much only on how they adapt to an environment, and this is pretty much just something you kinda get when entering the competitive scene since casual don't have to worry as much on adapting. In general, the overall mindset is similar even if at times competitive players always see a card on its merits when casual players don't focus as much on it. Competitive players derives fun from winning, and even casual players will want to win their games with their deck even if it's once in a while. No fun playing in a game that you kept on losing after all, no?

 

The issue for me seems to be why the two seem to dislike each side. Casual players shuns competitive environment as mindless bandwagon fest of broken things, while competitive players shuns casuals as bad players who refuses to get better in general. It's really silly, tbh. That biggest rift between the two, is probably the closest similarity that the two kinds of players share.

 

That mutual dislike, while definitely not something that applies to everyone, is kinda saddening and just hurts the community and the playerbase itself.

 

And then, there's some other things.

 

If you, say, post up a deck in the TCG Decks section, then you give the right for others to criticize and give suggestions to your deck. It's not really supposed to be a deck showcase section after all. You can say things in the opening post to inform people that you want to keep a certain gimmick or something similar so that the others don't suggest something that forces you to ditch your original plan. But in the end, casual or competitive, if a deck is posted there then it's open for suggestions and critiques of any kinds, and people will try to optimize it if they can. So that's a thing, and the thing Black emphasized the most in the post LocalSpinda refers to.

 

But well, in the end, just play the game in any way you want it. There's no rule that said you can only approach Yugioh with one mindset. Whether it's casual and competitive, it shouldn't even be a problem as long as they don't try to shove their mindset to others forcefully.

 

ugh i shouldn't make a post about this at 2 AM. i'll probably post something more coherent later.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

My only real opinion on this is why not run something blatantly bad? It might be different in MtG than YGO but I made a deck in MtG that was literally all Ox creatures.
Which are creatures that have no support or real synergy and none of them are really good. Because I felt like it, and I have fun playing it. Even when I don't win.

 

I mean if I ask for advice on it I would be asking what cards could work with it while keeping the Oxes, despite that the Ox cards are the problem and there are many other creatures that would be better.

 

The difference between casual and competitive to me is how much you optimize and plan around other competitive decks.

[Azure Wolf]

One can play casual competitively, yet can't play competitive games casually. The way I see it is there is pure casual, where people play entirely for fun with sort of consistent decks, competitive casual, where people play for fun with actual decks, and competitive, where people mainly play for victory.

 

It is a one way street, trying to play in a competitive environment with a deck built for casual play won't really work, sure you have a chance for winning but you have a disadvantage as your deck isn't made for it.

 

Decks like Buster Blader and BLS won't be competitive, Buster Blader is anti dragon so at certain times it will be good, BLS isn't a fast ritual deck so will lose to faster decks or ones which can get rid of it the needed cards easily.

 

Going over to magic for a bit. When actually have played outside of my own family, there was one person who was trying to make a farm deck, do using only on creatures who had a subtype(s) relating to a farm, or looked like a farm animal. The deck was purely made for fun and against the decks built for more competitive games it didn't work will.

[Blake]

My only real opinion on this is why not run something blatantly bad? It might be different in MtG than YGO but I made a deck in MtG that was literally all Ox creatures.

Which are creatures that have no support or real synergy and none of them are really good. Because I felt like it, and I have fun playing it. Even when I don't win.

 

I mean if I ask for advice on it I would be asking what cards could work with it while keeping the Oxes, despite that the Ox cards are the problem and there are many other creatures that would be better.

 

The difference between casual and competitive to me is how much you optimize and plan around other competitive decks.

Decks are a section for improvement and optimization. Not showcasing. "Wolf Decks" and the like have been posted, but they're not taken well. Why? The very first line.

 

Have fun and be bad, but don't make blatantly poor choices and then defend them for some arbitrary reason here.

 

"But I wanna be cute!"

 

Who cares? Do it yourself then. As I said, you made a deck tailored to a very specific set. And you can play with friends like that. But you can't even beat the most casual decks like that. Even BLS would beat a "Wolf Deck", by sheer virtue of actually having a theme. And these sections operate on the idea that you will be playing these realistically, albeit mostly online.

 

Nevermind that my point about blatantly bad was about card choices, like 3x 3 different rums.

 

It's not a matter of preparation. You can and should alway try to be optimal. It doesn't hurt anyone to streamline what you do, it just makes it annoying when you insist on poor card choices in the name of 'fun', such as the afforemention RUMs.

 

 

One can play casual competitively, yet can't play competitive games casually. The way I see it is there is pure casual, where people play entirely for fun with sort of consistent decks, competitive casual, where people play for fun with actual decks, and competitive, where people mainly play for victory.

 

It is a one way street, trying to play in a competitive environment with a deck built for casual play won't really work, sure you have a chance for winning but you have a disadvantage as your deck isn't made for it.

 

Decks like Buster Blader and BLS won't be competitive, Buster Blader is anti dragon so at certain times it will be good, BLS isn't a fast ritual deck so will lose to faster decks or ones which can get rid of it the needed cards easily.

 

Going over to magic for a bit. When actually have played outside of my own family, there was one person who was trying to make a farm deck, do using only on creatures who had a subtype(s) relating to a farm, or looked like a farm animal. The deck was purely made for fun and against the decks built for more competitive games it didn't work will.

Good Player;Bad Deck and Bad Player;Good Deck happen a lot, so the bold is hardly try.

 

You didn't actually touch on the problems with BLS. The support was made all over the place (4+4 Rituals, 7+1 rituals, Tribute summoning, etc.), and there's not a shred of coherency to it. Yet people defend things like that.

 

You cannot choose what your opponent will play, and playing a deck like that in a random environment is just nonsensical.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Decks are a section for improvement and optimization. Not showcasing. "Wolf Decks" and the like have been posted, but they're not taken well. Why? The very first line.

 

Have fun and be bad, but don't make blatantly poor choices and then defend them for some arbitrary reason here.

 

"But I wanna be cute!"

 

Who cares? Do it yourself then. As I said, you made a deck tailored to a very specific set. And you can play with friends like that. But you can't even beat the most casual decks like that. Even BLS would beat a "Wolf Deck", by sheer virtue of actually having a theme. And these sections operate on the idea that you will be playing these realistically, albeit mostly online.

 

Nevermind that my point about blatantly bad was about card choices, like 3x 3 different rums.

 

It's not a matter of preparation. You can and should alway try to be optimal. It doesn't hurt anyone to streamline what you do, it just makes it annoying when you insist on poor card choices in the name of 'fun', such as the afforemention RUMs.

Well, I mean. "But I wanna be cute" is a legit reason. I get that the section is for discussion and optimizing but it's probably easier to do so without saying they are wrong for wanting to make something kinda silly.

 People can be a lot more open to suggestions when you go about it certain ways I've found. Yeah sometimes things go sour but it shouldn't be too difficult to identify when/why someone got stupid with a reply and respond accordingly.

 

I've beaten things with Ox deck that I shouldn't have tbh, like you said later the player matters too. ^^;

 

I don't disagree with most things but the last part. "should always try to be optimal" isn't really true, imo. You don't need to be optimal if you don't want to. And you can be semi-optimal. (such as that Ox deck I can put in the best non-creatures to make it work). It doesn't hurt anyone to steamline sure but it also doesn't hurt anyone to insist on certain choices for fun.

 

My question is, honestly, why does it bother you that people want to stick to a certain choice? I mean, suggestions are called that for a reason. If someone doesn't want to use the suggestion that's their choice. You can pick and choose which suggestions you feel work with what you want.

You're even allowed to be wrong about it.

Of course it's no excuse to get upset when someone tells you what is wrong with the deck, never gonna agree with getting upset about it.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

What irritates me is when casual players cannot make up their damn mind. Example?

 

Magician Pendulum. Before the Structure deck everyone was crying that Yuya was getting sheet on and that they could NEVER play their deck as long as Nekroz and Heroes existed

 

After the structure deck, they cried that Konami made their deck meta....make up your damn mind, do you want it to win or not.

 

Another thing, when they try to asswipe their casual logic on the banlist. Get the funk out, I don't care how much Castel ruins your Gate Guardian deck, it's not hitting the damn list

[King K. Azo]

Robin, I believe people see you as the epitome of the mindset of the competitive scene, so I go through and rebuttal some of the things you said.

 

Instead of the skepticism, which had merit, being treated as such, calls for "tourneyfaggotry" and what not were made. No one in the thread assessed the cards on a competitive level, they were treated as casual cards.

Uh... no, that is not what happened in the Buster Blader thread. Most people were having a nice civil discussion about what worked, what didn't, and why. No one was calling 'tourneyfaggotry' as you put it. Not until Chaos Knux made a joke/observation of how the thread was going was an hostile response made. One made by you.

 

uh no

the posts are about how, BLS for example, was a 110% flop in any sense of playability.

Red-Eyes fared only slightly better, with multiple areas supporting it at one time.

People are sceptical of this because of how s*** the others were handled, especially BLS, as it's not even casually playable.

And no, you shouldn't support "multiple levels of power" when it comes to BLS. Red-Eyes is one thing (Which, even casually, isn't especially coherent, but not the worst), but BLS is a poorly designed set of cards. Not because they're too good, because they're too unplayable.

It's not hate based on competitive games, it's that Konami has treated the legacy support by large as a joke. Red-Eyes had 2-3 gems, but not enough, and BLS had that one promo. That's it, the rest is kinda crap, and none of it's enough to even justify it as more than "hurr legacy pay us pls".

You may not have been aggressive, but you were responding to a joke as if he was demonizing all competitive play. Now, Chaos Knux was not entirely right either, saying,

 

I'm noticing a pattern here...

Haters: This release blows ass because it won't win competitive games!!

Supporters: We don't care, it's BUSTER f***ing BLADER support! 

repeat ad nauseum

That said, I'm in the camp that supports this release.

He also misread the sitituation, as no one actually said anything like that, but again, it was a joke, and honestly, in almost any other thread, that joke would have been accurate. AND THAT IS PART OF THE PROBLEM. The thing is, you can not post ANY kind of deck on here without either fear the meta will attack you and say you suck, or the casuals calling you a meta f**. In fact, the Buster Blader thread was the first time in a long time I had actually seen this NOT happen, and I've been lurking around for almost a year and a half now.

 

BLS cannot compete with decks like, say, Battlin' Boxers, Crystal Beasts, Resonators, and so on. This was a waste of space, but then we have people advocating 'different levels of power'.

Another issue here is these cards HAVE NOT been released yet (at the time of this post). Until people get their hands on them and get to experiment and be creative, we can not make a fair judgement. Look at Performapals. Even when they first released, no one cared about them, and no one thought they would be good. But now, when people got their hands on them and started being creative, they are TOPPING the meta, even when Nekroz was at full power back in Japan, to the point the top eight were ALL P-Pals.

 

YGTubing reflects the worst of the 'casual so stfu' mindset.

Nothing really to say there, just gotta make sure the truth is put out there. The more the better.

 

Do what you want with friends, but understand that these are sections for competitive discussion.

Yes, but people actually need to say something other than "It's horrible". Maybe we need a casual section where people can just showcase.

 

Yes, even casual has competitive mindset added, as it should, and 'for fun' is just another example of an excuse to hide behind.

That is you just attacking people who aren't bein competitive, thus making it hard to believe you are actually a casual player.

 

You can have fun without purposely making something bad, especially if you post that deck in the deck section.

No one PURPOSEFULLY makes their things bad. Unless bad is fun, which calls for a casual section. They post because they believe they have a good or fun idea. And people should be respectful of that.

 

And this should not be shunned, thinking outside the box to find outs and the like is fine.

The problem is, it is. Thinking outside the box is attacked a lot, whether people want to admit it or not. You even just it in your last post to this thread when you said "But I wanna be cute!"

 

I would say something to others... but you're the only one with an opposing view that made something worth rebutting.

[Toffee.]

Regarding BLS cards...

 

The problem with the BLS stuff, honestly, is that none of it is honestly focused on anything. You have Rituals that Summon monsters that can't act a 1-card fodder and don't even share a relevant name, you have 'Chaos' monsters that do stuff when you use them for other things you wouldn't honestly want, you have a bunch of random 1-off cards that don't honestly make sense, etc, etc.

The whole funking thing was a train wreck, and anyone with eyes could see that.

It's cute that it got support, but it was honestly the wrong kind of support it needed.

[Blake]

Well, I mean. "But I wanna be cute" is a legit reason. I get that the section is for discussion and optimizing but it's probably easier to do so without saying they are wrong for wanting to make something kinda silly.

 People can be a lot more open to suggestions when you go about it certain ways I've found. Yeah sometimes things go sour but it shouldn't be too difficult to identify when/why someone got stupid with a reply and respond accordingly.

 

I've beaten things with Ox deck that I shouldn't have tbh, like you said later the player matters too. ^^;

 

I don't disagree with most things but the last part. "should always try to be optimal" isn't really true, imo. You don't need to be optimal if you don't want to. And you can be semi-optimal. (such as that Ox deck I can put in the best non-creatures to make it work). It doesn't hurt anyone to steamline sure but it also doesn't hurt anyone to insist on certain choices for fun.

 

My question is, honestly, why does it bother you that people want to stick to a certain choice? I mean, suggestions are called that for a reason. If someone doesn't want to use the suggestion that's their choice. You can pick and choose which suggestions you feel work with what you want.

You're even allowed to be wrong about it.

Of course it's no excuse to get upset when someone tells you what is wrong with the deck, never gonna agree with getting upset about it.

Optimization is part of improving as a player. To be able to know why you make what choices and how. Sure, you shouldn't necessarily prep a poor deck for the best decks, but you should efinitely optimize it in some form or fashion. Semi-optimal is one thing, so allow me to revert examples:

 

3x three different Rank-Up-Magics

vs

2-3 of the best one, 1-2 of a weaker one(s)

 

One of these is 'semi-optomized', the other is just plain poor deckbuilding.

 

tl;dr it boils down to the bold

 

that's why i said people use it as a banner to hide behind, as opposed to using it to say they don't play the meta and/or dislike it, or other such things

 

also TEW was harsh but not wrong.

[Toffee.]

After the structure deck, they cried that Konami made their deck meta....make up your damn mind, do you want it to win or not.

To be fair...

They added, like, what, 5-8 searchers? The rest of the Deck was already in place. It just needed stuff to assemble all the pieces of it, and the rest of it would naturaly fall in line. Which is the irony of it.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Optimization is part of improving as a player. To be able to know why you make what choices and how. Sure, you shouldn't necessarily prep a poor deck for the best decks, but you should efinitely optimize it in some form or fashion. Semi-optimal is one thing, so allow me to revert examples:

 

3x three different Rank-Up-Magics

vs

2-3 of the best one, 1-2 of a weaker one(s)

 

One of these is 'semi-optomized', the other is just plain poor deckbuilding.

 

tl;dr it boils down to the bold

 

that's why i said people use it as a banner to hide behind, as opposed to using it to say they don't play the meta and/or dislike it, or other such things

 

also TEW was harsh but not wrong.

And why must I improve as a player? I mean games aren't about being the best at it, it's about how you enjoy it. If I can enjoy my game while being an average player for all my life then that's great. And just because you don't optimize doesn't mean you don't understand the concept all the time. Sometimes yes and yeah it's good to know what's good and bad so you can make things the way you want. But you don't need to play optimally to do that, I don't think.

Another example is Pokemon Showdown, I know what the good Pokemon are but I don't need to use them to have fun. :)

 

But yeah I agree that not listening to advice and getting upset is wrong. I just don't think that it's bad to listen and not take the advice, if that makes sense.

Since this thread was a discussion on casual and competitive in general.

[Blake]

Robin, I believe people see you as the epitome of the mindset of the competitive scene, so I go through and rebuttal some of the things you said.

i don't see why

 

Uh... no, that is not what happened in the Buster Blader thread. Most people were having a nice civil discussion about what worked, what didn't, and why. No one was calling 'tourneyfaggotry' as you put it. Not until Chaos Knux made a joke/observation of how the thread was going was an hostile response made. One made by you.

Tell that to VCR Cat, who got the worst of it earlier in the thread.

 

You may not have been aggressive, but you were responding to a joke as if he was demonizing all competitive play. Now, Chaos Knux was not entirely right either, saying,

Uh, you don't know Chaos Knux very well, do you? Almost every post he makes is to demonize people who play competitively .-.

 

Context matters.

 

He also misread the sitituation, as no one actually said anything like that, but again, it was a joke, and honestly, in almost any other thread, that joke would have been accurate. AND THAT IS PART OF THE PROBLEM. The thing is, you can not post ANY kind of deck on here without either fear the meta will attack you and say you suck, or the casuals calling you a meta f**. In fact, the Buster Blader thread was the first time in a long time I had actually seen this NOT happen, and I've been lurking around for almost a year and a half now.

no one ever compares it to meta decks, ever

 

telling you to, as cowcow put it, 'semi-optimize' or to explain is not the meta attacking.

 

Another issue here is these cards HAVE NOT been released yet (at the time of this post). Until people get their hands on them and get to experiment and be creative, we can not make a fair judgement. Look at Performapals. Even when they first released, no one cared about them, and no one thought they would be good. But now, when people got their hands on them and started being creative, they are TOPPING the meta, even when Nekroz was at full power back in Japan, to the point the top eight were ALL P-Pals.

Well yeah, but skepticism was scorned. Skepticism.

 

Uh, first off, you reeeeally shouldn't cite Japan. funking BLS topped there. While there are good, high-;level players, a lot of cute sheet tops JUST BECAUSE.

 

Additionally, creativity is not the reason Ppal topped. In fact, the deck itself doesn't top (yet, Monkeyboard should change that).

 

The reason it tops is synergy with the Performage engine, Wavering Eyes, and a plethora of stupidly strong Rank 4 Xyz that are JP exclusive. This has been culled somewhat, but it's not creaticity causing it.

 

Yes, but people actually need to say something other than "It's horrible". Maybe we need a casual section where people can just showcase.

not really, the point has been covered before

 

I refer to the Kogarasho example again, where no info was given, just a deck list and video somebody else made.

 

That is you just attacking people who aren't bein competitive, thus making it hard to believe you are actually a casual player.

I'm not attacking anyone. I'm pointing out how people act.

 

You can have fun, but in this place, where you're planning for mostly online play, it's a completely random environment. You should not go out into a random environment to play, say, Wolf Decks, because it won't funking work.

 

No one PURPOSEFULLY makes their things bad. Unless bad is fun, which calls for a casual section. They post because they believe they have a good or fun idea. And people should be respectful of that.

Yes they are. See one above.

 

The problem is, it is. Thinking outside the box is attacked a lot, whether people want to admit it or not. You even just it in your last post to this thread.

 

I would say something to others... but you're the only one with an opposing view that made something worth rebutting.

I did nothing of the sort. Scolding a card choice in a deck is one thing if it makes no sense, but new ideas shouldn't be shunned if there's some real substance to it.

 

Like, say, people realizing Performapal Whip Snake was a decent tech in some decks, due to being a possible Djinn out. That's not bad. The Hade Hane example is an obviously poor one, though.

 

And why must I improve as a player? I mean games aren't about being the best at it, it's about how you enjoy it. If I can enjoy my game while being an average player for all my life then that's great. And just because you don't optimize doesn't mean you don't understand the concept all the time. Sometimes yes and yeah it's good to know what's good and bad so you can make things the way you want. But you don't need to play optimally to do that, I don't think.

Another example is Pokemon Showdown, I know what the good Pokemon are but I don't need to use them to have fun. :)

 

But yeah I agree that not listening to advice and getting upset is wrong. I just don't think that it's bad to listen and not take the advice, if that makes sense.

Since this thread was a discussion on casual and competitive in general.

You're posting in a section for discussion and improvement.

 

Did you really just ask that.

 

I don't even play good decks half the time. I paly decks I like. IF they get good, sobeit, but I don't go after them because they're good. Still do my best to make them work as well as possible, because a well-oiled deck is more fun than not. And improving at the game makes you appreciate and enjoy it more.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

You're posting in a section for discussion and improvement.

 

Did you really just ask that.

 

I don't even play good decks half the time. I paly decks I like. IF they get good, sobeit, but I don't go after them because they're good. Still do my best to make them work as well as possible, because a well-oiled deck is more fun than not. And improving at the game makes you appreciate and enjoy it more.

Yes, yes I did. Because you can have discussion and improvement without directly improving how you are as a player.

And the last sentence It makes you appreciate and enjoy it more. And many others as well. But not everyone feels that way.

And again. Improvement comes in a lot of different ways.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Regarding BLS cards...

 

The problem with the BLS stuff, honestly, is that none of it is honestly focused on anything. You have Rituals that Summon monsters that can't act a 1-card fodder and don't even share a relevant name, you have 'Chaos' monsters that do stuff when you use them for other things you wouldn't honestly want, you have a bunch of random 1-off cards that don't honestly make sense, etc, etc.

The whole f***ing thing was a train wreck, and anyone with eyes could see that.

It's cute that it got support, but it was honestly the wrong kind of support it needed.

Well there IS a reason for this. A poor one never the less. Chaos Shaddoll went from being irrelevant to m&m levels of domination after they got the Water Shaddoll and CED. Konami likely s*** their pants and make the support subpar in response.

 

There is NOTHING wrong about playing BLS ritual deck, what's wrong is suddenly crying when you realize your BLS ritual deck cannot 2-0 m&m's regularly

 

So another thing, people were begging for rituals right? Yet those same people are shitting all over Nekroz. People wanted Fusion, Shaddolls get s*** on now. People wanted tribute summoning, I bet my soul, give it a week or a month, people will start crying about the Monarch's resurgence

 

It's like the casual players have a bipolar problem. Either take meds, be content playing for fun, or just pack up and get out. You trying to play half over the fence is ruining the game for the rest of us

 

 

To be fair...

They added, like, what, 5-8 searchers? The rest of the Deck was already in place. It just needed stuff to assemble all the pieces of it, and the rest of it would naturaly fall in line. Which is the irony of it.

 

Well they added backrow destruction to deal with floodgates, and things like that, but the "best" cards of the deck like Insight Magican and Wizard were already legal like you noted

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

So another thing, people were begging for rituals right? Yet those same people are shitting all over Nekroz. People wanted Fusion, Shaddolls get s*** on now. People wanted tribute summoning, I bet my soul, give it a week or a month, people will start crying about the Monarch's resurgence

 

It's like the casual players have a bipolar problem. Either take meds, be content playing for fun, or just pack up and get out. You trying to play half over the fence is ruining the game for the rest of us

Funnily enough from what I can tell people already are. Also are you really surprised? A large portion of a lot of different groups always are complaining.

 

Also please don't generalize like that it hurts all argument you can make. Semi-casual is perfectly fine if that's what you're referring to.

[Simping For Hina]

Get better or don't do sheet. That's all I have to say.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Funnily enough from what I can tell people already are. Also are you really surprised? A large portion of a lot of different groups always are complaining.

 

Also please don't generalize like that it hurts all argument you can make. Semi-casual is perfectly fine if that's what you're referring to.

Sorry, I'm frustrated with people never being happy regardless of what Konami does for them. Up till the banlist they wanted something to match the power of M&m's, Konami gives them that, and they whine again. I'm ONLY talking about the semi-casuals. The true casual players who enjoy the game for what it's it worth are rare and too far in between sadly.

 

Haters gonna hate hate hate I guess

 

 

Get better or don't do s***. That's all I have to say.

 

Or just accept you're a casual player and live with that. Tainted Wisdom isn't a meta player yet he has many who respect him cause of the niche he choose in casual plays...why more players can't be like that IDK. Semi-Casuals need to be stomped out cause they'll end up killing both the competitiveness and casuals

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Sorry, I'm frustrated with people never being happy regardless of what Konami does for them. Up till the banlist they wanted something to match the power of M&m's, Konami gives them that, and they whine again. I'm ONLY talking about the semi-casuals. The true casual players who enjoy the game for what it's it worth are rare and too far in between sadly.

 

Haters gonna hate hate hate I guess

Oh I get frustrated at that type as well don't worry. Though something to keep in mind the people complaining about "A" aren't always the same people complaining about "B"

 

 

Get better or don't do s***. That's all I have to say.

I...not worth the hassle XD

[King K. Azo]

i don't see why.

Because you often say 'even casual can be competitive'. That... seems competitive.

 

Tell that to VCR Cat, who got the worst of it earlier in the thread.

... Are you a SJW...? Because the worst thing said to him was...

 

Which is why DNA Surgery exists, VCR Cat.

If that is the worst he's gotten... that's not too bad... by any standards.

 

Uh, you don't know Chaos Knux very well, do you? Almost every post he makes is to demonize people who play competitively .-.

 

Context matters.

Well, considering he helped me make a custom deck, helped me get on this site, and sitting right next to me at this second... I think I do. And yes, he does 'demonize' people who play competitively... but that doesn't mean every post made by him is doing that.

 

Context matters.

 

no one ever compares it to meta decks, ever

And yet we're having this conversation right now about competitive vs. casual.

 

Well yeah, but skepticism was scorned. Skepticism.

Not in the BB thread, but this might be true in others. And this also is not right, but once again, it goes both ways.

 

I'm not attacking anyone. I'm pointing out how people act.

Then, honestly, you need to make your intents clearly, because it seems like you are attacking them.

 

Yes they are. See one above.

No, they believed that was good, and they posted it. You came along and in your first post you didn't offer any advice. That is an attack. http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/340440-everyone-loves-kogarasho-bujinsworn-clownblade-pendulum-otk/?p=6706068

 

I did nothing of the sort. Scolding a card choice in a deck is one thing if it makes no sense, but new ideas shouldn't be shunned if there's some real substance to it.

Then please, tell me what your definition of 'substance' is. There seems to be a discrepancy as to what qualifies as substance from one user to the next.