Archetype Generator Meta

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Uh, Leviathan Dragon is still a Number, so we can't add that. 

 

Everything else is fine for most part. Obvious concern is Bahamut and any Rank 3 or lower WATER Xyz we got in AGM (no Treatoad like in TCG, but yeah).

[Tinkerer]

Everything else is fine for most part. Obvious concern is Bahamut and any Rank 3 or lower WATER Xyz we got in AGM (no Treatoad like in TCG, but yeah).

 

Yeah, fortunately, there isn't anything active that I'd found that would break it.  Best targets I'd found would probably be Leviathan Terias, and Beloved Child of the Yuki Onna, neither of which are insanely good by any means.  Should be fine to come in.

 

 

EDIT: Huh, both Ray Lancers and Aero Shark were already in.  Guess the ones missing are Caesar and Bahamut.

[Dova]

Yeah, fortunately, there isn't anything active that I'd found that would break it.  Best targets I'd found would probably be Leviathan Terias, and Beloved Child of the Yuki Onna, neither of which are insanely good by any means.  Should be fine to come in.

 

 

Ahah, about Terias...

 

It can immediately go into Primordias.

 

Perhaps Bahamut won't be able to go in after all. Still, even if we only have one Rank 3 and Rank 4 Shark, I'll be happy.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Bahamut should probably be okay, but it's up to Draco and Nyx mostly if they have any complaints about it in light of stuff they made or whatnot.

 

(I mention them specifically since the other members in this club aren't exactly here to contribute nowadays, club-wise. No offense to them, and I know Sleepy/Kyumi have other things they have to contend with.)

[Draconus297]

I mean, ZeXal Sharks aren't much of an archetype, or even much of a connected series- a few of them are here already (most notably Mermaid Shark, and that's never a parenthetical I want to type again), and some members have designed support around those existing added Sharks. We also have Shark Fortress because I wanted to give us a Rank 5 before we had any noteworthy ones (I don't even think CDD existed yet in the Generics thread at that time).

 

We can't add Darkraken because lolNumbers, but Sharklords should hypothetically be fine.

[Dova]

I mean, ZeXal Sharks aren't much of an archetype, or even much of a connected series- a few of them are here already (most notably Mermaid Shark, and that's never a parenthetical I want to type again), and some members have designed support around those existing added Sharks. We also have Shark Fortress because I wanted to give us a Rank 5 before we had any noteworthy ones (I don't even think CDD existed yet in the Generics thread at that time).

 

We can't add Darkraken because lolNumbers, but Sharklords should hypothetically be fine.

 

The Darkraken don't specifically require Numbers atm, so the monsters there are a veritable toolbox not only for them to still use with the few sharks they have, but for the rest of the meta as well. The only require a WATER Rank 3/4, so...

[Tinkerer]

Ahah, about Terias...

 

It can immediately go into Primordias.

 

I mean, if you're using Bahamut to go into Primordias, you might not have all that many banished WATER monsters to proc its effect.  Plus, it's more ED investment than something like Toad.  I'd argue that it is fine.

 

 

Meantime, I had a design idea for something that's a nigh untouched mechanic (completely untouched in the irl game).  It should be a simple idea, but it changes the idea of the game state itself.

 

[spoiler=Example card + Idea]

Duelist's Battle Spirit

Continuous Spell

Twice per turn you can tribute 1 monster.  Place Counters on this card equal to the tributed monster's Level/Rank.  You gain ATK equal to the number of Counters on this card x 100.  You can declare 1 additional attack during your Battle Phase.

 

I mean, in the AGM, we have the ability to place counters on yourself so mechanically you - the player - can be part of the game. 

 

Mechanicwise, these are the implications:

• The player has 0 ATK and, initially, cannot declare any attacks.
• LP during battles with players functions exactly the same as two battling monsters. (i.e. If you have 300 ATK and your opponent attacks directly with a 1000 ATK monster, you take 700 damage)
• You cannot be destroyed/banished.
• You are never treated as being on the field.
• You do not have a DEF value and you cannot be placed in defense position.
• You do not have a Level/Rank (Maybe?  I mean, we can run with mechanics involving having your own Level/Rank - which could open up worlds of possibility - but the player having none would simplify things.)
• You do not have a type/Attribute (Maybe?  See above parentheses.)
• You can attack your opponent directly.
• You are not a Monster, Spell, or Trap.
• You are unaffected by all card effects that don't specify you specifically.
• You have no effects.

Because of how this works, I'd think a keyword might be necessary, because it would get confusing determining what effects are working on "you" the player specifically or "you" the player generally ("You can declare 1 additional attack during your Battle Phase" - you the player or the monsters you control?).

 

Yay or nay?  Any keyword suggestions?

 

 

[Draconus297]

Took me a while to realize it was May, but here's the May Challenge!

 

May

April showers bring May flowers, and what did the Mayflower bring? Pilgrims, the single most boring set of people in history! Normal monsters may be boring by themselves, but I'm sure you can find a fun way to play them! For this challenge, 70% of your monsters must be Normal or non-Effect monsters, which still leaves you a lot of options for fun ways to play . . . if you know how to work with them.

[Dova]

Ahahah, I know what I'm doing for this challenge!

 

I like your mechanic, Tinkerer. "You can declare 1 additional attack during your Battle Phase" I think this mechanic is safe as no monster that I can think of doesn't mention "with this card".

[Draconus297]

Well, I mean, you're pretty limited in terms of "good" options, but the ones that are there should hypothetically be really fun.

 

If I wasn't running the competition, there are a few options I would consider- Labyrinth Dragon turbo (because it Summons free fodder from the Deck), giving my new Minicons a test run (because Tri-Wight is silly), and maybe something using Ascent of Fusion for ED plays (because I swear there's something amazing I'm just not seeing, and testing would probably let me find it). Party Lord requires Tributing 3 Level 1 Normals that have all lived a turn, making it stupid by nature; Zushin is about as bad as Party Lord; Dollossus is a stupidly fragile build . . .

[The Nyx Avatar]

I'm cool with Bahamut Shark. Always liked him.

 

Didn't do April's challenge. Got sidetracked

 

Should get back to Cursebringer.

[Dova]

Speaking of Tri-Wight, we don't seem to have it in the OP. If we are looking for Normal Monster support, I would like to suggest Painful Decision, Enchanting Fitting Room, and The League of Uniform Nomenclature.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I'm finished with Windy for the most part, so time to figure out the next prompt to do in-club (while I design Mekk-Marina concurrently). To be honestly, the archetype prompts and the consequent game threads are literally the bulk of my cardmaking nowadays. 

 

Put bluntly, I really don't have a lot of ideas lately for sets; generics aren't as hard though, but I gotta design them so they're workable but not busted. 

 

=====

Oh right, and we still working on Kengensei or that stalled again?

[Draconus297]

Looks like Kengensei got stalled, but I was thinking I could eat into Eshai's design slots to make some of the things I wanted since he's vanished again.

 

Also, I'm currently working on Numerix-114 (currently running with ideas based on sound delay/radio errors and radioactive decay symbolically, combined with puns related to dresses due to goroawase), and its Delta. Mostly just struggling for names, because I already have an effect all but ready for each of them.

 

Offhand, I've been considering giving Disasterman its own Cyberdark Impact!/BriFu, but I've honestly been too afraid of majorly screwing it up and breaking something hard.

 

Queue:

 

Majespecter (2/3 - Sakura, Nyx)

lswarm, bar Origin and Ophion (2/4 - Nyx, Dova)

Dracoslayer/Dracoverlord, bar Amorphactor Pain (2/3 - Melon, Sakura)

Metalfoes, bar Electrumite (2/3 - Sakura, Dova)

Galaxy, bar "Number 38: Hope Harbinger Dragon Titanic Galaxy", "Number 42: Galaxy Tomahawk", "Number 62: Galaxy-Eyes Prime Photon Dragon", "Number 83: Galaxy Queen", "Number 90: Galaxy-Eyes Photon Lord", "Number 95: Galaxy-Eyes Dark Matter Dragon", "Number 107: Galaxy-Eyes Tachyon Dragon", and "Number 107: Neo Galaxy-Eyes Tachyon Dragon"(2/4 - Sakura, Draconus)

T.G. (2/3 - Sakura, Draconus)

Lightsworn, bar Curious (1/3 - Kyumi)

Qli, bar Genius (1/3 - Dova)

Machina (1/3 - Draconus)

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I think Eshai's on the DP Discord again, since yeah, he hasn't been seen in over a month. Should check since I'm on there too, albeit inactive. 

 

Otherwise, you should probably have enough to work with to post, and we can add on later in legacy supports. 

[Dova]

Just curious, do we have any Rank-Down-Magic cards/archetypes in the AGM atm? Asking for another prompt.

[Draconus297]

Cards? Yes. They're in the Generics.

Archetypes? No.

[Tinkerer]

Any thoughts on the "true player interaction" mechanic?  Should I scrap it?

 

 

By the by, what would the banlist look like if Qli was bumped in?  An easily turbo'd oppressive boss like Towers is not super easy to out in the AGM.  I'd bump them up on the condition that Towers stay banned or at the very least it is limited with a semi-limit to the equip spell.

 

Bumping up T.G.

[Draconus297]

The problem is that it'd be a lot of very complicated rulings, most of which don't interact very well with certain existing cards. If you do want to make it work, you'd need to actively set precedent for it with something low-balling the mechanic as a whole- think the first few monsters of a new Summon method or something. That said, it could work- it would just require so much excessive effort to balance that nobody would want to add to it.

 

Honestly, Towers bosses aren't too hard to out through sheer force here in the AGM, where aggro archetypes are a dime a dozen, everyone can splash in a single GameChild monster to make Volcano Prince live to Tribute both players' entire boards, and Wysthae exists specifically to out big bosses that don't carry the ability to negate attacks or tag out, and make you plus in the process. The issue is more consistency than power- Qli are such an issue because they're specifically designed to take a route of using Skill Drain and other floodgates to make them too hard to kill while they out-perform their opponent. Saqlifice (said equip) and Scout are more the issue than Towers is imho.

[Tinkerer]

It's funny, I'm kinda in the opposite camp.  Most decks in the AGM have quite a bit of internal consistency and, oftentimes, some consistency from generic options.  Qli does little in the way of outperforming these on that front, even with two in-archetype searchers.  Our general lack of floodgates makes their typical playstyle moot as well, which brings us to Towers turbo.

 

If you're facing a Qli deck in the AGM, that would be the only real viable strategy, and hurting your own Deck's consistency just to add things to combat Towers is what would provide Qli that edge (whether or not they actually do summon the thing).  Further, since our direct counters often revolve around battle, as a Qli player, you'd be able to use any extra deck space for "counter counters".  Needless to say, from my perspective, Towers would play a huge role in how Qli would be used AGM-wise.

 

 

[spoiler=More Sample Cards for Mechanic]
Summoned Sword

EARTH ****

Warrior/Union/Effect

Once per turn, you can either: Equip this card to you OR: Unequip this card and Special Summon it.  If you are equipped with this card: gain 500 ATK. Also, you can declare 1 attack during your Battle Phase.  If an opponent's monster declares a direct attack with a monster has greater ATK than you: you can destroy this card; negate that attack.

1500/1200

 

Ruff'n'Buff Cheerleader

EARTH ****

Fairy/Effect

When this card inflicts battle damage: this card gains 200 ATK.  You gain ATK equal to the difference between this card's current ATK and original ATK.

1700/1300

 

Gigantism

Quick-Play Spell

You can pay LP in multiples of 500 (up to 2000): gain 300 ATK for every 500 LP you paid, also, you can declare 1 additional attack during your Battle Phase.  These changes last until the end of this turn.

 

 

 

Ideally, regarding this mechanic, if neither player plays anything that affects "player ATK", games play out exactly the same.  There shouldn't really be any preestablished precedent or things that conflict with this mechanic (as far as I'm aware) and, as a plus, having this mechanic in-place clears up any confusion about counters being placed on players.

 

The only thing that I would strongly suggest regarding adding to this mechanic is that no cards should give you a permanent ATK boost.  With my four examples, all of the player's ATK boosts are either temporary or connected to a card that the opponent can affect (meaning they can remove your ATK stat).  Barring that, I think the sky's the limit.

[Draconus297]

I mean, there are polarizing enough cards in the AGM (the oft-mentioned Party Lord, thanks to basically being Amano-Iwato, Spell Canceler, Jinzo, and Necroalley together on a body whose stats are dependent on the number of Level 1 Normals in the Graveyard, is a colossal reason why a lot of ways to protect Normals straight-up don't exist in the AGM) without Towers, but I think that we're able to handle a boss like it mostly due to it not actively doing things. However, it being in an archetype that can consistently toss the fodder for it on board is part of why it's so dangerous. So, that's why I don't like Qli as a concept. They're very uncomfortable in that way.

 

I'm mostly worried about cards that do things when they're targeted for an attack, or when they battle, that affect the thing they're battling. Player ATK throws a wrench into the equation with a few things, but if you want to write out a rulings page half a mile long for specific situations, more power to you.

 

Also, Numerix-114: Sustained Sonic Sarong Serpent and Delta-Numerix-114: Delay Distortion Dress Dragon exist now.

[Tinkerer]

I'm mostly worried about cards that do things when they're targeted for an attack, or when they battle, that affect the thing they're battling. Player ATK throws a wrench into the equation with a few things, but if you want to write out a rulings page half a mile long for specific situations, more power to you.

I think most of those issues are covered by:

 

• You are not a Monster, Spell, or Trap.
• You are unaffected by all card effects that don't specify you specifically.

 

...I'd need a sample idea of something that might not work because, as it stands, I'm pretty sure I've covered the bases with the mechanic itself + its basic rulings.

 

 

Normal Deck challenge for this month, huh?  I think I might pass on this one.  We'll see.

[Tinkerer]

Aiming to either do Wellspawn or Xtractor on page 97.

[Dova]

Ahahah, almost picked up Wellspawn.

 

[servant of] Kiwahine should be up in a day or two, just have to work out a few kinks.

 

Also picked up Wingray on page 63:

 

Imagine reverse Raidraptors. Yeah. These nocturnal winged mammals form all the lowest ranks, their highest being 6, and use Rank-Down spells get to their most annoying monsters. They're LIGHT, too, so they clash with Raidraptors rather impressively in a Duel. Whats strange is that they have a Rank-down version of literally every Rank-up the Raidraptors use. Freaky, but they're cute so I'll let it slide.

[Draconus297]

Surprised you went for Kiwahine instead of Terriform as Sakura suggested. Any particular reason why?

 

Personally, I'm considering doing Prominence, if only because we have Dracoslayers now (which means Ignister and nothing else of relevance lol).