Yu-Gi-Oh! Rulings Questions

[Delibirb]

Since it's not on the field, you cannot activate the effect, since it is not able to resolve properly.

The second effect doesn't need to be on the field to activate, and besides shouldn't Diamond Dude ignore the condition anyway?

[Atypical-Abbie]

The second effect doesn't need to be on the field to activate, and besides shouldn't Diamond Dude ignore the condition anyway?

Oh, I see what you mean now. That is not the effect you get when you activate the card, but rather a secondary effect, using Diamond Dude will not be able to activate that effect.

[Delibirb]

Oh, I see what you mean now. That is not the effect you get when you activate the card, but rather a secondary effect, using Diamond Dude will not be able to activate that effect.

Alright, well I suppose that is a good thing then lol.

[Catman25]

If I target a set card (that's a cont trap) with Alucard, and it's chained, is it destroyed?

[Hexanort]

If I target a set card (that's a cont trap) with Alucard, and it's chained, is it destroyed?

 

no, alucard say target a set card, then destroy "that target"

this wording mean the target must still fulfill the condition of targeting for the effect to resolve, so the set card must remain set

to be destroyed

 

if the card say target set, then destroy "it", it will be destroyed even if it no longer fulfill the targeting condition

[Hexanort]

can RUM astral force prevent a player from deck out by using its effect so the player

doesnt conduct normal draw?

[evilfusion]

can RUM astral force prevent a player from deck out by using its effect so the player

doesnt conduct normal draw?

 

No. You need to be able to conduct your normal draw in order to use any effect that applies instead of your draw, like Core of Koaki Meiru or RUM - Astral. Since you have no cards in your Deck to draw during your Draw Phase's normal draw, you lose.

[Catman25]

Another Ghostrick inquiry, this time regarding Ghostrick Go-Round:

 

"Once per turn, during the Battle Phase: You can activate 1 of these effects.
● Target 1 "Ghostrick" monster you control; change that target to face-down Defense Position, and if you do, change 1 face-down Defense Position monster your opponent controls to face-up Attack Position.
● Target 1 face-down Defense Position monster you control; change that target to face-up Attack Position, and if it is a "Ghostrick" monster, change 1 face-up monster your opponent controls to face-down Defense Position."

 

Ygopro lets me use the second effect when there are no monsters on my opponent's field to flip face down, while it doesn't allow me to use the first effect when there aren't any monsters to flip face up. Is this the correct ruling, and why does it work that way?

[darkwolf777]

Another Ghostrick inquiry, this time regarding Ghostrick Go-Round:

 

"Once per turn, during the Battle Phase: You can activate 1 of these effects.

● Target 1 "Ghostrick" monster you control; change that target to face-down Defense Position, and if you do, change 1 face-down Defense Position monster your opponent controls to face-up Attack Position.

● Target 1 face-down Defense Position monster you control; change that target to face-up Attack Position, and if it is a "Ghostrick" monster, change 1 face-up monster your opponent controls to face-down Defense Position."

 

Ygopro lets me use the second effect when there are no monsters on my opponent's field to flip face down, while it doesn't allow me to use the first effect when there aren't any monsters to flip face up. Is this the correct ruling, and why does it work that way?

 

In order to activate a card's effect, you are expected to apply all of the effects that the card says it will perform.

 

In the first effect, there is a 100% chance that when a monster you flip to face-down Defense Position will cause the "change 1 face-down Defense Position monster your opponent controls to face-up Attack Position", so since it will definitely occur, and they have no face-down Defense Position monsters to flip face-up, the effect cannot be activated as you cannot perform all of the expected effects of the card activation.

 

In the second effect, the "change 1 face-up monster your opponent controls to face-down Defense Position" can only occur in the event that the monster flipped face-up is a Ghostrick monster.  A card has no name while it is face-down and is therefore not public information that the game state can recognize, so at activation, there is no guarantee that the face-down monster will become a Ghostrick monster when flipped face-up.  Therefore, the second effect's only effect requirement for activation is to change the face-down Defense Position monster face-up, as the second part of that effect is behind a condition that cannot be guaranteed at activation, but only after the first part has been performed.

[DuelSpectre]

1. Opponent uses Miracle Fusion and Summons Shining.

2. I use the effect of my Blaze Accelerator Reload; opponent does not chain anything, and I discard Scattershot to draw 1.

3. Scattershot (500 burn) effect activates, followed by the "send 2 Scattershot" effect as Chain Link 2. Opponent Chains Form Change and targets Shining.

4. Opponent summons Acid with Form Change; Scattershot destroys Acid, and 500 burn is inflicted.

 

Does Acid still acquire his effect, or does it not trigger because it is no longer on the field?

[Atypical-Abbie]

1. Opponent uses Miracle Fusion and Summons Shining.

2. I use the effect of my Blaze Accelerator Reload; opponent does not chain anything, and I discard Scattershot to draw 1.

3. Scattershot (500 burn) effect activates, followed by the "send 2 Scattershot" effect as Chain Link 2. Opponent Chains Form Change and targets Shining.

4. Opponent summons Acid with Form Change; Scattershot destroys Acid, and 500 burn is inflicted.

 

Does Acid still acquire his effect, or does it not trigger because it is no longer on the field?

This is similar to Call of the Haunted, MST and Tellars, since the monster is not on the field when it is suppose to activate, it doesn't activate.

[darkwolf777]

1. Opponent uses Miracle Fusion and Summons Shining.

2. I use the effect of my Blaze Accelerator Reload; opponent does not chain anything, and I discard Scattershot to draw 1.

3. Scattershot (500 burn) effect activates, followed by the "send 2 Scattershot" effect as Chain Link 2. Opponent Chains Form Change and targets Shining.

4. Opponent summons Acid with Form Change; Scattershot destroys Acid, and 500 burn is inflicted.

 

Does Acid still acquire his effect, or does it not trigger because it is no longer on the field?

 

 

This is similar to Call of the Haunted, MST and Tellars, since the monster is not on the field when it is suppose to activate, it doesn't activate.

 

I'm not sure what situation this is coming from, but this is not, or should not be, correct.

 

Masked HERO Acid is a mandatory effect that is triggered when it is Summoned.  Since it was summoned successfully, its mandatory trigger effect will activate after the chain ends.  It would not matter that Masked HERO Acid was destroyed and sent to the Graveyard before it could activate its effect.  The effect will start a new chain, and the effect is considered to have activated on the field.

 

 

 

Giving a quick look to Satellarknights in general, since i'm unfamiliar with them, they all state "If this card is summoned".  This sort of effect cannot miss its timing as it uses "If". The following two examples would show the situations regarding MST and Call:

 

Chain Link 1: MST is activated, targeting Call

Chain Link 2: Call is activated, targeting a Satellarknight

 

Resolving

Chain Link 2: Call summons the Satellarknight

Chain Link 1: MST destroys Call, destroying the Satellarknight.

 

In this chain, the Satellarknight should be able to start a new chain as it was summoned successfully, even though it was promptly destroyed in the same chain.

 

 

In this chain:

 

Chain Link 1: Call is activated, targeting a Satellarknight

Chain Link 2: MST is activated, targeting Call.

 

Resolving...

Chain Link 1: MST destroys Call of the Haunted.

Chain Link 2: Call is destroyed and nothing is Summoned.

 

In this scenario, the Satellarknight was never summoned, and therefore would not get its effect.

 

 

I do not know what rules are currently in place for these, but if it was summoned successfully, both Acid and any Satellarknight card (in scenario 1) should be able to activate its effects as said card was successfully Summoned.

[DuelSpectre]

One thing I would like to state is that you cannot start a Chain Link within a Chain Link that is resolving. In the case that Acid's effect does indeed activate, does it occur after Scattershot destroys Acid and inflicts 500 damage?

[darkwolf777]

One thing I would like to state is that you cannot start a Chain Link within a Chain Link that is resolving. In the case that Acid's effect does indeed activate, does it occur after Scattershot destroys Acid and inflicts 500 damage?

 

Edit: Its been a while, but for Volcanic Scattershot, there are two single trigger effects.  As they are both Spell Speed 1, you cannot activate both of them.  If you are activatng the "If this card was discarded by the effects of a Blaze Accelerator card", you do not also get the first effect that deals damage.  You only get the destruction.

 

As a follow up, if you are discarding Volcanic Scattershots from your hand for ths first effect, then as it is your turn, your discarded Scattershots will activate first in the chain, then Acid will, so say you discarded two scattershots from your hand:

 

Chain Link 1: Volcanic Scattershot #1

Chain Link 2: Volcanic Scattershot #2

Chain Link 3: Masked HERO Acid

 

Resolving:

Chain LInk 3: Masked HERO Acid destroys Spells/Traps and reduces ATK.

Chain Link 2: Volcanic Scattershot #2 deals 500 damage.

Chain Link 1: Volcanic Scattershot #1 deals 500 damage.

 

Hope that clears it up.

 

Edit 2: Does the TCG still perform Trigger Effect chains based on when the trigger occured to determine order rather than the "turn based" way the OCG does it?  It shouldn't have an effect here, but just wondering.

[DuelSpectre]

Huh, that means an Admin ruled incorrectly. Not exactly surprising, but meh.

[Captain Kirk]

Edit: Its been a while, but for Volcanic Scattershot, there are two single trigger effects.  As they are both Spell Speed 1, you cannot activate both of them.  If you are activatng the "If this card was discarded by the effects of a Blaze Accelerator card", you do not also get the first effect that deals damage.  You only get the destruction.

 

As a follow up, if you are discarding Volcanic Scattershots from your hand for ths first effect, then as it is your turn, your discarded Scattershots will activate first in the chain, then Acid will, so say you discarded two scattershots from your hand:

 

Chain Link 1: Volcanic Scattershot #1

Chain Link 2: Volcanic Scattershot #2

Chain Link 3: Masked HERO Acid

 

Resolving:

Chain LInk 3: Masked HERO Acid destroys Spells/Traps and reduces ATK.

Chain Link 2: Volcanic Scattershot #2 deals 500 damage.

Chain Link 1: Volcanic Scattershot #1 deals 500 damage.

 

Hope that clears it up.

 

Edit 2: Does the TCG still perform Trigger Effect chains based on when the trigger occured to determine order rather than the "turn based" way the OCG does it?  It shouldn't have an effect here, but just wondering.

Actually, Scattershot's damage effect is mandatory (When this card is sent to the Graveyard, inflict 500 damage to your opponent), so both effects will activate. Unless it works really differently than I (And the YGO world championship games) thought.

[darkwolf777]

Actually, Scattershot's damage effect is mandatory (When this card is sent to the Graveyard, inflict 500 damage to your opponent), so both effects will activate. Unless it works really differently than I (And the YGO world championship games) thought.

 

I always keep WC2011 handy for certain things, and while the TCG and OCG don't always get along, I still prefer OCG interactions over whatever the TCG can make up on the spot.  In the game, If discarded by the effects of Blaze Accelerator, you do not get the 500 Damage from the first effect, whether or not you choose to activate the second effect of Volcanic Scattershot.

 

Volcanic Scattershot has always been wonky mainly because it has two trigger effects which both trigger to what is more or less the same condition.  For what i'm familiar with, the "discarded via Blaze Accelerator" effect takes precedence over the generic discard effect.  Both do not activate simulaneously, and Volcanic Scattershot does not chain with itself.  One or the other.

 

 

Huh, that means an Admin ruled incorrectly. Not exactly surprising, but meh.

 

Admins at official events generally have to make prompt decisions and stick with them based on the knowledge they have.  Yugioh's complicated as fug.  What should be known is that what's said at any given tournament is what is gonna be ruled for that tournament, but doesn't mean it will stay that way after they're given more time to look at it after said tournament.  These statements are not necessarily true, and are mostly just me assuming that's how it is.

 

If this is a DuelistNetwork thing, then yeah, aside from myself when I admin'd there a long while ago, and a select few, i don't think many knew the game as well as I do, or at least as I did.  The core gameplay hasn't changed, but I don't know most of the new cards that came out in the past 2-3 years.  While it wouldn't be hard to figure out the interactions with most, there's probably some other complicated interactions that have turned up.  My main reason for leaving DN for admining is because I didn't want to follow silly rules made up by the TCG that were clearly incorrect and I was not going to rule them that way.  This was due to a ruling regarding one of the Inzektors, don't remember which, who's ruling did not make sense as similar cards did the same thing but was ruled differently.

 

Edit:  Here it is -

 

• The effect of an equipped "Inzektor Hopper" cannot be activated during Main Phase 2 or during the first turn of the first player. Also, the effect of an equipped "Inzektor Hopper" cannot be activated during a turn in which you cannot conduct your Battle Phase by having activated Soul Exchange.^[1]

Before, as some TCG judge said, you COULD activate Inzektor Hopper on the first turn or when you couldn't activate your Battle Phase. While it seems to be cleared up now, this annoyed me that people follow a rule that was clearly wrong yet because some randomly "TCG Judge said so in a tournament" meant that it was the ruling.  Judges make quick decisions for the sake of the tournament, but are not the final word (outside said tournament anyway).

[Atypical-Abbie]

This is an issue which people have been confused about for a while, and there are still conflicting opinions about this, but most people generally see it the way I described. I talked to some admins from DN's admin chat, and they agree with my statement. It really depends on where you play, and a judge at your event may disagree, but if you're playing on Dueling Network, what I said is correct:

http://forum.duelingnetwork.com/index.php?/topic/85060-ruling-updates-and-announcements-last-update-392015/#1.18:%20Monsters%20leaving%20their%20effect%20activation%20location%20before%20activation

 

I always keep WC2011 handy for certain things, and while the TCG and OCG don't always get along, I still prefer OCG interactions over whatever the TCG can make up on the spot.  In the game, If discarded by the effects of Blaze Accelerator, you do not get the 500 Damage from the first effect, whether or not you choose to activate the second effect of Volcanic Scattershot.

Also, bad idea to take things from the games, they may be more correct than YGOpro and what not, but they also tend to be out of date, especially something from 2011.

[darkwolf777]

This is an issue which people have been confused about for a while, and there are still conflicting opinions about this, but most people generally see it the way I described. I talked to some admins from DN's admin chat, and they agree with my statement. It really depends on where you play, and a judge at your event may disagree, but if you're playing on Dueling Network, what I said is correct:

http://forum.duelingnetwork.com/index.php?/topic/85060-ruling-updates-and-announcements-last-update-392015/#1.18:%20Monsters%20leaving%20their%20effect%20activation%20location%20before%20activation

 

Also, bad idea to take things from the games, they may be more correct than YGOpro and what not, but they also tend to be out of date, especially something from 2011.

 

Its only a bad idea as OCG rules do not apply to the TCG.  As such, things will not be seen eye to eye.  The games are a good point to follow the rulings of the cards that are in there, because of the fact that the game's core rules have not changed, only the cards that have been introduced to it.  The way old cards work do not change except when the TCG feels the need to change them, or when they're reprinted to do something compeltely different, such as Crush Card Virus.

 

But let's take a look at this page of rulings and see what I got issues with:

 

 

1.11: Lightsworn Monk Ehren VS Flip Effect Monsters

February 6th 2014: Lightsworn Monk Ehren (if it attacks a Flip Effect Monster) allows that Flip Effect Monster to activate its effect after returned to the Deck in both the TCG and the OCG. (This has been overturned for DN, refer to 1.18)

 

Why is DN making up what rules to follow and which not to?  I guess i'll see what 1.18 says when i get to it.

 

 

1.18: Monsters leaving their effect activation location before activation

June 19th 2014: Okay, so, stick with me because this will bit a get wordy. If a monster, who has an effect that activates in one specific location, whether explicitly stated on card text, or inherently defined by game mechanics, leaves that location before activation, the effect WILL NOT activate, regardless if it is mandatory or optional.

 

This is incorrect.  Unless a card states that it must be on the field to activate and resolve the effects of that card, it doesn't.  Any cards who's successfully been triggered when summoned onto the field, such as Masked HERO Acid and others will get their effects.  Who made this rule up?  I did not care to check his examples as I figure they're all wrong based on the first line, but I wont bother worrying about it too much.

 

1.21: Even more on monsters leaving the location of their effect's activation before activating their effects.  August 17th 2014: This also extends to Flip Effect Monsters as well.  If a Shaddoll monster is flipped by Sinister Shadow Games, and is removed from the field before it activates, its Flip Effect will not activate.

This isn't the only case, but just an example. You'll find similar interactions with Ehren, Lightsworn Monk, Acid Trap Hole, etc. In all cases, if the Flip Effect Monster isn't on the field when it would activate its Flip Effect, it won't activate.

The Damage Step is no longer an exception for FLIP Effects.

 

This is flat out wrong and would be a very poor TCG ruling if I ever heard one if this is actually true and not just something said by someone at DN or if the nature of Flip Effects were changed at all in the past 3 years into a completely different form.  To start with, Flip Effects are mandatory by nature.  If they are flipped, they will activate, regardless of any "you can" wording.  The only exception to this is when cards specifically state they will not (such as with Ceasefire).  Therefore, a Shaddoll monster who is flipped by the effects of Sinister Shadow Games and is then removed from the field, their effect will still activate.  A Flip Effect monster who was attacked by Ehren, Lightsworn Monk and returned to the Deck will still activate.  A Flip Effect monster destroyed by Acid Trap Hole will still activate.  If there's an official word on this, I want to see it.  Otherwise, what they said there on DN is completely wrong.

 

 

The fact that DN feels the need to make up their own rules is enough to show that their rulings cannot be trusted and is not something you should suggested me to look at.  As it stands, what you said is still wrong and Masked HERO Acid would still get its effect.  You may call yourself the OCG Snob, but it seems you have not dealt with me in a long time, Zaziuma :D  Hopefully you haven't forgotten about me anyway.  Prepare to lose your title!

 

Lastly, I realize that a lot of the cards names on some of these newer cards seem to be getting more and more ridiculous.

[Forest Fire]

Opponent has 107 out, a fiendish chain and two face-downs. I have a Castel that has been Fiendished and an Armor Master plus two face-downs.

He uses 107's effect and attacks armor, I used fiendish and he chains tachyon transgression. after that resolves he says that I should take and additional 1000 damage bc an effect resolved on my side. I say that since he negated the activation of fiendish, it didn't resolve. 

[evilfusion]

Opponent has 107 out, a fiendish chain and two face-downs. I have a Castel that has been Fiendished and an Armor Master plus two face-downs.

He uses 107's effect and attacks armor, I used fiendish and he chains tachyon transgression. after that resolves he says that I should take and additional 1000 damage bc an effect resolved on my side. I say that since he negated the activation of fiendish, it didn't resolve. 

 

You are correct. No.107 only counts effects that resolved. Since Fiendish's activation was negated, the card was never activated and it did not resolve.

[Atypical-Abbie]

*post*

You can ask AntiTcb or a Ruling Guru on DNF why that is the decisions they made, I don't know why those were made personally, but I am sure they can explain it to you.

 

Planter2000, if you are playing on DN, use the Ruling I posted, anywhere else, ask your judge.

[Skulblaka98]

Enough.

 

 

I always keep WC2011 handy for certain things, and while the TCG and OCG don't always get along, I still prefer OCG interactions over whatever the TCG can make up on the spot.

 

We're in 2015, stop using video games for rulings.

 

Volcanic Scattershot has always been wonky mainly because it has two trigger effects which both trigger to what is more or less the same condition.  For what i'm familiar with, the "discarded via Blaze Accelerator" effect takes precedence over the generic discard effect.  Both do not activate simulaneously, and Volcanic Scattershot does not chain with itself.  One or the other.

 

Volcanic Scattershot's UDE ruling has been overturned and is no longer correct (for both CGs). Play the text as written, both effects are triggered, so both will activate.

 

 

My main reason for leaving DN for admining is because I didn't want to follow silly rules made up by the TCG that were clearly incorrect and I was not going to rule them that way.  This was due to a ruling regarding one of the Inzektors, don't remember which, who's ruling did not make sense as similar cards did the same thing but was ruled differently.

 

 

This is pretty much the crux of your post: you don't like how the TCG explains how its game works. That's fine, most players and judges alike are unsatisfiyed with the lack of support provided by Konami. However, that does not give you cause to ignore the TCG's mechanics. You have an issue with how Konami operates, you handle it the same way you do when any other company does something you disagree with: you contact them and complain, civially and formally. Want to discuss it with others? Fine, but you do not do it in a rulings thread and spread misinformation. You also shouldn't be trying to explain what occurred when you don't have all the facts. It was much more than "one judge issued a ruling on the spot at an event". And no, I'm not going to go into it, it's ancient history that has been resolved.

 

 

The way old cards work do not change except when the TCG feels the need to change them

 

What does this even mean?

 

Why is DN making up what rules to follow and which not to?

 

We don't, and I'd appreciate it if you stopped trying to convince everyone that we do. This particular mechanic listed in the annoucnements topic is the mechanic being enforced at all events under KDE-US' jurisdiction, which DN follows as most of its playerbase are from those territories. Disagree with it as much as you like, a lot of people, including KDE-E, do, but that is how it is being ruled, and so that is what DN will follow. We didn't make it up just because we felt like it. All other rulings in that thread are valid for the TCG.

 

This is flat out wrong and would be a very poor TCG ruling if I ever heard one if this is actually true and not just something said by someone at DN or if the nature of Flip Effects were changed at all in the past 3 years into a completely different form.

 

Again, this is how a YCS under KDE-US' jurisdiction will rule the matter. Your disagreement is irrelevant except when expressed in a communication to Konami.

 

To start with, Flip Effects are mandatory by nature. If they are flipped, they will activate, regardless of any "you can" wording. Therefore, a Shaddoll monster who is flipped by the effects of Sinister Shadow Games and is then removed from the field, their effect will still activate.

 

Not anymore. This was reversed when Shaddoll's were released in the TCG. Play the effects as written, only those FLIP: effects which exclude "can" are mandatory. This is reflected in version 9 of the rulebook. The FLIP: effect of the Shaddoll monster will only activate if the player chooses to activate it.

 

If a Shaddoll monster is flipped by Sinister Shadow Games, and is removed from the field before it activates, its Flip Effect will not activate.

 

If your event is in a territory governed by KDE-US, it will not activate if the card is not on the field. If your event is in KDE-E's territory, it will activate so long as the card can still be seen.

 

If there's an official word on this, I want to see it.  Otherwise, what they said there on DN is completely wrong.

 

This is no publically available source for this information. Not happy about it? Complain to Konami, that's the only way it will change. Want to verify it for yourself? Go to a YCS and ask the HJ. DN is enforcing the mechanic as it is enforced at events under KDE-US' jurisdiction; we are not making up our own rules. End of story.

 

Regards,

 

Skulblaka98

Dueling Network Head Administrator and Ruling Guru.

[darkwolf777]

Want to verify it for yourself? Go to a YCS and ask the HJ.

 

Generally, that's where many incorrect rulings start: When a Judge states makes a rule at an event and everyone follows it, despite how wrong it actually is, aka the Inzektor Hopper dispute from years ago.  It of course isn't the only one.

 

We don't, and I'd appreciate it if you stopped trying to convince everyone that we do.

 

You do when you explicitly state that you are ignoring the ruling to apply your own. ("overturned for DN")

 

 

 

I've been to DN.  I've admin'd at DN.  With literally one post, you're attempting to tell me about rulings.  If there have been changes to the way the game works as a whole, then that sort of information is what should be shown and explained in some official way through Konami and is what you should have linked in that thread.  The things i've pointed out are not based off of anything that can be proven through that thread.  The only worthwhile bit of information you've given is that Shaddoll's Flip effects being explained in one of the handbooks, which I have yet to see myself and why the TCG attempts to change the way the game is played in its entirety.  Their PSCT certainly isn't supporting it, which was supposed to help fix misconceptions.

 

In any case,  I don't know who you are, and I do not care to.  If you're going to dispute with me, bring something from Konami and dispute it, and no, I do not mean something some random judge said, but some actual clarification to the changes to the issues that are spawning.  This should not be my job as I am ruling it as would be deemed correct.  You are saying these aren't correct because of various changes you have no proof to being ever changed.  The one who should be going to Konami for that is yourself as you are commanding your group of admins to rule in such a fashion without any real understanding.

 

Come back when you've got more of the Whys that these changes are made and more tangible proof that i should believe these changes were made rather than just going with what it has always been.  Changing the core game is a big thing you're insinuating has happened but with no say as to when or why, just that it happened.

 

This is pretty much the crux of your post: you don't like how the TCG explains how its game works.

 

You mean the lack of explanation as to how the TCG works.  PSCT did a great job in setting up proper card lore, but if they're changing core gameplay mechanics, which PSCT cannot explain, while not explaining them when these changes are made, then that is kinda their fault. 

 

Many new cards may be brought into the game, but the core rulings the game is based around do not change unless stated somewhere, such as in rulebooks or by Konami themselves in some official way.  If they're being changed without telling anyone, then that's a big issue.  Their official website does not currently have the 9.0 handbook that I can see there, and still has the 8.0 so I can't see how the latest rulebook is attempting to change the nature of Flip Effects as a whole from how they've been previously.

[Skulblaka98]

Generally, that's where many incorrect rulings start

 

Please, stop. You don't know what happened in this particular case, you're trying to apply a general understanding to it. It's also from 3 years ago. Let it go.

 

You do when you explicitly state that you are ignoring the ruling to apply your own. ("overturned for DN")

 

Because at the time, those effects would still have activated in European territories (this has since been clarified for Europe, the effects will not activate if the cards cannot be seen, except during the damage step). DN, in accordance with the vast majority of its userbase, choose to follow KDE-US.

 

 

 

I've been to DN.  I've admin'd at DN.

 

Oh, I am well aware. It was also 3 years ago, which is about how up-to-date your information is.

 

 

 

With literally one post, you're attempting to tell me about rulings.

 

Well, yes, because currently you are misinformed.

 

 

 

If there have been changes to the way the game works as a whole, then that sort of information is what should be shown and explained in some official way through Konami and is what you should have linked in that thread.

 

Again, actually read my post. There is no publically available source. We are telling you that this is how it is being ruled at events under KDE-US' jurisdiction, since this mess started at the 2013 NAWCQ.

 

 

 

The only worthwhile bit of information you've given is that Shaddoll's Flip effects being explained in one of the handbooks, which I have yet to see myself

 

This "handbook" I'm talking about is the game's basic rulebook. If you haven't read that, well....

 

 

 

Their PSCT certainly isn't supporting it, which was supposed to help fix misconceptions.

 

PSCT 100% supports it. PSCT didn't tell you that all FLIP: effects were mandatory, you were ruling against the text to enforce that mechanic. Now, playing cards as written in PSCT, you know exactly which are mandatory and which are optional.

 

 

 

If you're going to dispute with me, bring something from Konami and dispute it, and no, I do not mean something some random judge said, but some actual clarification to the changes to the issues that are spawning.

 

Seriously, read my post. There is no publically available source. If you want to confirm it, actually go attend a YCS and ask the HJ.

 

 

 

This should not be my job as I am ruling it as would be deemed correct.

 

I'm not here to argue with you about what should be correct. The two territories shouldn't have different rulings, but they do. When you're here discussing rulings, and how things are, you leave your opinion at the door. I'm sure there's a discussion forum you can take it to.

 

 

 

Come back when you've got more of the Whys that these changes are made and more tangible proof that i should believe these changes were made rather than just going with what it has always been.

 

I am not Konami. Go ask them why this is the mechanic they have decided on. If you won't attend an event and ask the HJ yourself, then you need to listen to the folks who have, consistently.

 

 

 

You mean the lack of explanation as to how the TCG works.  PSCT did a great job in setting up proper card lore, but if they're changing core gameplay mechanics, which PSCT cannot explain, while not explaining them when these changes are made, then that is kinda their fault.

 

Agree 100%, but this is not the place for this discussion.

 

 

 

Their official website does not currently have the 9.0 handbook that I can see there

 

http://www.yugioh-card.com/uk/rulebook/Rulebook_v9_en.pdf

 

 

 

and still has the 8.0 so I can't see how the latest rulebook is attempting to change the nature of Flip Effects as a whole from how they've been previously

 

You should also know that the change was being enforced well before the updated rulebook was released. Again, there was no public announcement.

 

 

 

Many new cards may be brought into the game, but the core rulings the game is based around do not change unless stated somewhere, such as in rulebooks or by Konami themselves in some official way.

 

You really don't understand this game at all, do you?