Yu-Gi-Oh! Rulings Questions

[evilfusion]

I'm partly more curious how the DN Head Admin knew to come here to dispute darkwolf's claims about DN making up rulings than I am about anything else. But the actual answer is probably irrelevant.

 

Let's not completely derail the thread. Apparently the summary of this is: DN does not make up rulings for kicks, and resents being labeled as such.

[Atypical-Abbie]

I'm partly more curious how the DN Head Admin knew to come here to dispute darkwolf's claims about DN making up rulings than I am about anything else. But the actual answer is probably irrelevant.

 

Let's not completely derail the thread. Apparently the summary of this is: DN does not make up rulings for kicks, and resents being labeled as such.

I questioned about this in DN's admin chat, they told me to replay with my last response, Skul decided to join up here and post himself though.

[darkwolf777]

So in the end, this guy has no proof.  Tells me to look at the 9.0 handbook which does not explain Shaddolls or flip effects (or any card) requiring the card to remain on the field to activate and resolve, nothing to defend the claims that his rules are as he has deemed correct.  Searched the document for FLIP and Shaddoll, but nothing came up regarding specific rulings to such.  Their "Other Rules" section also did not bring up any points of interest.

 

I shouldn't have to go to Konami to see if the rules you made up are correct or official.  That should be your job as a DN Head Admin to make sure there's an official statement before enforcing incorrect rulings, am I right?  I'm not one of the fish who blindly follow the pack because they have no idea of their own like the rest of the players.  You want to tell me I'm wrong, you're gonna have to convince me with some real stuff.  i've changed my mind on rulings before when people discuss it here when I have made mistakes, but here you have no tangible proof as to why I should be convinced.

 

Until Konami tells everyone otherwise with some actual information themselves instead of going by this guy's "konami changed it, i don't know when, i don't know how, but they changed it" with no proof it being as such, i'm going to continue to rule as I know is correct by the mechanics that have existed since Yugioh's creation.

 

Thanks for visiting YCM.  Your contribution has been the least insightful, Skulblaka98 the "Ruling Guru".

 

 

I questioned about this in DN's admin chat, they told me to replay with my last response, Skul decided to join up here and post himself though.

 

I'm fine with that.  The reason why I left is because I refused to spout incorrect rulings to players which is what they wanted.  Hearing him come tell me this with no proof shows that not much has changed.

[Skulblaka98]

So in the end, this guy has no proof.

 

You really have no idea what's happened to this game over the last 4 years.

 

Konami does not speak to players anymore, and haven't since the introduction of PSCT save for a few exceptions. Many, many, many changes have been made to the game over this time, some minor, some major. None have been publically announced. Konami only speaks to its HJs to answer their questions before their event. If you are not going to attend events yourself and ask the HJ, you need to learn to listen to those who do so, consistently.

 

Stop making a fool of yourself. I did a quick search through some of your posts on here, and you haven't even played this game in 3 years. Stop trying to act as though you know what's happening at events.

 

 

 

Tells me to look at the 9.0 handbook which does not explain Shaddolls or flip effects (or any card) requiring the card to remain on the field to activate and resolve, nothing to defend the claims that his rules are as he has deemed correct.

 

That's not what I told you to read the rulebook for. Read. My. Post.

 

 

 

The reason why I left

 

lol

 

Well, I can see that there is no getting through to you, so I'll address everyone else reading this thread.

 

Please don't listen to darkwolf777 and think that we at DN make up whatever rulings we like. DN enforces rulings as they are correct for the TCG, always. Unfortunately, there is currently a split in how the mechanic which determines whether or not a triggered effect will activate if the card is moved after it triggers, but before it activates, is enforced. To those of you in territory governed by KDE-US, it is as is explained in the DN Rulings & Announcements topic: if the effect has a specific place of activation, then the physical card must be in this location in order for the effect to activate. If you are in a territory governed by KDE-E, if an effect has been triggered, and the card is moved to a location where it cannot be seen, the effect will not activate (exception: damage step). DN will follow the precedent established by KDE-US, given the majority of its players are from these territories.

 

I hope that, whilst I haven't gotten through to darkwolf777, I've at least gotten the correct ruling, as is currently being enforced at actual events, out to the rest of you. Whether you personally believe how events under KDE-US' jurisdiction are ruling this mechanic is correct is irrelevant to informing players "this is how it will be ruled". You handle your opinion on the ruling separately from educating players about it.

 

It is unfortunate that Konami does not speak to players and its judges as a whole; however, that is the reality we have at the moment. You don't have to like it, no one does, but you need to accept it when it comes to ruling discussions.

 

If anyone has any questions about this mechanic, or any other queries, feel free to shoot me a PM on DNF or catch me online on DN.

[evilfusion]

I'm finding this discussion to be tiresome, mostly because, quite frankly, darkwolf's stance is becoming ridiculously petulant and has been soured from a personal bias stemming from 3 years ago. Dude, I agreed with you about Hopper back then (which has probably been overturned since then anyway), but you've come to believe DN consistently just runs with random ruling decisions.

 

If the OCG still plays with the rulings as you understand them, that's fine. But if the TCG doesn't, then we already KNOW that DN follows the TCG rulings. And even if there's no official source, the whole thing about TCG-US vs TCG-E is too specific to just have been pulled out of his ass.

 

Honestly, I'm finding his stance to be way more credible than yours, because of your blatant bias and attitude when talking with him. It's REALLY not a high moment for you.

 

So seriously, just stop. It's derailing this thread and it's just unpleasant to read coming from someone I really respected for their game knowledge.

[darkwolf777]

Sorry to have disappointed you evilfusion.  Whether I am behind the times or not, the fact that such changes occur with nothing to back them up is ridiculous.  I have never been one to just accept things that people would just "tell me that it is what it is" without some kind of justification, whether it was 3 years ago or now.  There still has been none, and that is ridiculous.

 

PSCT had the card game on the right track and most issues were resolved with it.  Now its straying from being great to being a mess of unannounced game changes.

 

I do not know how the OCG currently functions, though I don't imagine its as haphazardly as the TCG does.  Besides PSCT, they never did a great job overall helping the players understand their game.  Do I still believe what was said at DN to be incorrect?  Yes, as there's nothing to justify it.  If its what everyone wants to follow, then I got nothing to really say about it.

 

My attitude should have nothing to do with the credibility.  While neither of us have tangible proof, I'd find it safer to err on the side of "no word meaning nothing has changed" vs "no word meaning everything has changed".  Its silly.  Whether its not a high moment for me isn't really much to say either.  I've always challenged rulings, albeit too seriously I suppose, unless there's some reasonable reason to think another way was correct.  Its not even an OCG/TCG thing at the moment, this is worse.  This is a "core mechanics" change that really should be addressed officially if it really has changed.  Card Rulings are one thing, but core mechanics is a way bigger deal.

 

At least skulblaka and I can agree that Konami is terrible as discussing their game with their players.  PSCT tried to get it on the right track, then derailed again while I was gone it seems.  For someone who hasn't played this game much, I still like it despite everything.  Perhaps its just the disappointment after disappointment with this game caused by hopeless frustration of how things are.

 

In any case, sorry for causing a stir.

 

Lastly, to make it clear for the time being, I'll take your implied mechanics changes into consideration before I answer anything.  While I do not agree to them, you do have the point of knowing the current game state more than I do, that and I trust evilfusion at the very least, so if he agree then there's not much to say about it.  It will still bother me regardless as following judges outside of the event they judged has never been a wise decision in my eyes, though whether this has been an ongoing ruling over the course of several official events, it still puts to question when any why these "core mechanic" changes happened and what else could have changed without telling us.  Either way,  I'll behave for the time being, but would hope that you, Skulblaka, regardless of whether you think you should or shouldn't, at least take it upon yourself as head admin of DN to confirm these things with Konami instead of telling me to do so.  That should at least be your responsibility.

[Skulblaka98]

Just for the record.

 

(which has probably been overturned since then anyway)

Yes, it has been overturned. Years ago.

 

If the OCG still plays with the rulings as you understand them, that's fine. But if the TCG doesn't, then we already KNOW that DN follows the TCG rulings. And even if there's no official source, the whole thing about TCG-US vs TCG-E is too specific to just have been pulled out of his ass.

In the OCG, the mechanic is the same as it is being enforced by KDE-E. Further, there is only the TCG, KDE-US, and KDE-E.

[CLG Klavier]

I have 2 monsters on the field and so does my opponent. I activate U.A. Turnover Tactics and summon U.A. Blockbacker as one of my monsters. Then my opponent summons 2 monsters from their maindeck. Can I use Blockbacker's effect to negate the effect of 1 of them?

[Atypical-Abbie]

I have 2 monsters on the field and so does my opponent. I activate U.A. Turnover Tactics and summon U.A. Blockbacker as one of my monsters. Then my opponent summons 2 monsters from their maindeck. Can I use Blockbacker's effect to negate the effect of 1 of them?

I have asked this myself in the past, the answer is that they will be negated.

 

http://forum.duelingnetwork.com/index.php?/topic/146029-ua-turnover-tactics-vs-ua-blockbacker/

[Mysty]

I have 2 monsters on the field and so does my opponent. I activate U.A. Turnover Tactics and summon U.A. Blockbacker as one of my monsters. Then my opponent summons 2 monsters from their maindeck. Can I use Blockbacker's effect to negate the effect of 1 of them?

 

I think you'd have to negate both of their effects and change both of their positions (I don't think you can pick and choose), but I do believe you can activate Blockbacker's effect.

[CLG Klavier]

Both of them?! Oh, right, Blockbacker says monster(s). funk yeah.

[Sleepy]

Torrential Tribute activates while Dark Law is face up on the opponent´s side. Are my monsters banished if Dark Law is destroyed along with my monsters?

[evilfusion]

Torrential Tribute activates while Dark Law is face up on the opponent´s side. Are my monsters banished if Dark Law is destroyed along with my monsters?

 

No. All the monsters are being destroyed simultaneously and will all go to the Graveyard. Same as Black Rose vs Macro Cosmos.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Two things that I'd like to get cleared up:

 

1. MPB-related

 

I have Harrliard on the field, alongside Aerial Recharge. If I tribute (another monster) for Recharge's effect during the End Phase, will that trigger Harrliard's effect that Special Summons a Token or the effect only works during the Main Phase and things?

 

Not really sure since I've been testing on YGOPro lately, but taking it with a grain of salt since the coding in Harrliard's effect may very well be wrong.

 

2. This one has an old card that probably no one uses much nowadays

 

Suppose I have Miracle Jurassic Egg on the field, and there is also Banisher of the Radiance or Macros on the field.

If the opponent were to destroy it with a card effect, would the effect not work or it'd be affected regardless?

 

Basically asking for a couple reasons:

 

1. Ruling on this card's interaction with above cards is from Upper Deck, so can't say if it's still legitimate or a different ruling applies now if Konami's provided any.

2. Linked to a custom card in Duel Portal that shares the same 1st effect as Miracle.

[evilfusion]

Two things that I'd like to get cleared up:

 

1. MPB-related

 

I have Harrliard on the field, alongside Aerial Recharge. If I tribute (another monster) for Recharge's effect during the End Phase, will that trigger Harrliard's effect that Special Summons a Token or the effect only works during the Main Phase and things?

 

Not really sure since I've been testing on YGOPro lately, but taking it with a grain of salt since the coding in Harrliard's effect may very well be wrong.

 

2. This one has an old card that probably no one uses much nowadays

 

Suppose I have Miracle Jurassic Egg on the field, and there is also Banisher of the Radiance or Macros on the field.

If the opponent were to destroy it with a card effect, would the effect not work or it'd be affected regardless?

 

Basically asking for a couple reasons:

 

1. Ruling on this card's interaction with above cards is from Upper Deck, so can't say if it's still legitimate or a different ruling applies now if Konami's provided any.

2. Linked to a custom card in Duel Portal that shares the same 1st effect as Miracle.

 

Harrliard's wording indicates the Token needs to be Tributed as a cost. Aerial Recharge is Tributing as part of a Continuous Effect, not a cost. As such, Harrliard will not activate.

 

Macro Cosmos/D-Fissure/etc will still banish Jurassic Egg despite the text, because Continuous Effects no longer apply when the monster leaves the Field, and those cards don't directly affect Jurassic Egg while it's on the Field (rather, it affects where it goes AFTER leaving the Field). So unless the effect specifically says to banish it (such as Dark Core, D-Prison, etc), Egg can and will still be affected by them.

[Progenitor]

If my opponent chains Vanity's Emptiness to my U.A. Turnover Tactics, does the entire effect of tactics not resolve, or do all monsters on the field still get shuffled?

 

Based off the ruling of Reasoning we assumed they would, but me an my opponent honestly had no idea

[evilfusion]

Pretty sure that due to the PSCT, you would still shuffle all monsters, but neither player can Special Summon, because you can't. However, if Vanity's was already active, you wouldn't be able to activate Tactics at all.

[Progenitor]

Pretty sure that due to the PSCT, you would still shuffle all monsters, but neither player can Special Summon, because you can't. However, if Vanity's was already active, you wouldn't be able to activate Tactics at all.

 

Thats what we thought.  It was indeed chained in response.  Ty

[Atypical-Abbie]

If my opponent chains Vanity's Emptiness to my U.A. Turnover Tactics, does the entire effect of tactics not resolve, or do all monsters on the field still get shuffled?

 

Based off the ruling of Reasoning we assumed they would, but me an my opponent honestly had no idea

Let's look at the text:

 

If you control 2 or more "U.A." monsters with different names: Shuffle as many monsters on the field as possible into the Deck, then Special Summon "U.A." monsters from your Deck that have different names from each other, up to the number of cards shuffled into your Main Deck, but those monsters cannot attack this turn.

 

The two importants parts here are the colon before "Shuffle" and the "then" before "Special Summon". Because shuffling in as an effect, it happens after the colon, so you will see this as the first thing to happen. After that, you will see the "then", which is a conjunction used to explain that something happens after another thing does. What this conjunction means is that if you can't do the first thing, the last thing won't happen, but it will still try to do the first thing if it can. Since Vanity is being Chained, it will try to resolve as much as possible, so it will still shuffle the monsters, but it will stop after it realized you cannot Special Summon monsters. You cannot activate this card if Vanity is already on the field.

[Progenitor]

Let's look at the text:

 

If you control 2 or more "U.A." monsters with different names: Shuffle as many monsters on the field as possible into the Deck, then Special Summon "U.A." monsters from your Deck that have different names from each other, up to the number of cards shuffled into your Main Deck, but those monsters cannot attack this turn.

 

The two importants parts here are the colon before "Shuffle" and the "then" before "Special Summon". Because shuffling in as an effect, it happens after the colon, so you will see this as the first thing to happen. After that, you will see the "then", which is a conjunction used to explain that something happens after another thing does. What this conjunction means is that if you can't do the first thing, the last thing won't happen, but it will still try to do the first thing if it can. Since Vanity is being Chained, it will try to resolve as much as possible, so it will still shuffle the monsters, but it will stop after it realized you cannot Special Summon monsters. You cannot activate this card if Vanity is already on the field.

 

Thank you for your answer.  that's exactly how we thought it would work.

[Bringerofcake]

On another U.A. related note, can I activate U.A. Penalty Box's search effect during my opponent's turn, since it's a Trap Card, or is it an ignition effect that's spell speed 1?

[Atypical-Abbie]

On another U.A. related note, can I activate U.A. Penalty Box's search effect during my opponent's turn, since it's a Trap Card, or is it an ignition effect that's spell speed 1?

Yes you can, all Trap Cards are Fasts Effects, so they can be activated during either player's turn.

[Bringerofcake]

If Shaddoll Falco is sent to the graveyard by a card effect, and it activates, and your opponent responds with D.D. Crow/an infernoid, banishing it. would Falco be special summoned?

[evilfusion]

If Shaddoll Falco is sent to the graveyard by a card effect, and it activates, and your opponent responds with D.D. Crow/an infernoid, banishing it. would Falco be special summoned?

 

No. It needs to still be in the Graveyard at resolution to be Special Summoned.

[Forest Fire]

Dekatron is flipped face-down. Does it retain it's copied effect?