League of Legends

[The Warden]

I meant DotA 2's denial, where you can slaughter your own side's creeps.

[The Amazing Avian]

Just gonna say there was a point where Syndra could kill allied champs and take the gold so Denying is a thing via technicality and spaghetti code.

[Aerion Brightflame]

Just chiming in - The client complaint is still valid. DOTA has had two different clients in it's lifespan, and on two different engines, one of which was designed entirely in the time period. And both clients have had more options than the new alpha client.

 

Even with the new alpha on the way, Riot remains far behind Valve in that regard. It is not a justification.

 

Issues of gameplay and balance will always be subjective due to different approaches and intentions, but I wish Riot balanced more like icefrog.

[Brinolovania]

Eh...I don't know the Dota client well enough to know what it has that the alpha client doesn't. That said, now that the LoL client will actually have ability scaling details and stuff, it doesn't seem to me that there's much important stuff it won't be able to do. More player stats would be nice, I guess? It could be I just don't know what I'm missing though.

 

How does Icefrog balance? Again, I don't really know, but I can say that I like the idea of fairly frequent patches more than having a huge patch every few months.

[Aerion Brightflame]

Icefrog does iterative balancing in semi frequent large patches that cover the whole heropool essentially. Which we are just left to play with rather than being given direct guidance in the patch notes.

 

He also focuses more on maintaining a heroes strengths and increasing there weaknesses rather than just nerfing numbers say. It gives heroes defined niches that they can work in instead of just making them useless.

 

It would be like if Syndra was too good because of her stun and burst, he would make her more squishy instead to keep her niche.

[Brinolovania]

As I said, I prefer League's bi-weekly approach to the long gaps between Dota patches. It means (generally) champions that are too strong or too weak don't stay that way for long. Because most champions aren't changed in a given patch, the game doesn't get disrupted too much by frequent change, outside of really big patches like the Mage update.

 

I'm not really sure what you mean by "being given direct guidance in the patch notes," because the vast majority of explanation in the patch notes is just saying why they made the changes. It's not like they're typing out a guide for every champion when they change them. 

 

Riot does at least try to balance that way in many cases, although I admit it doesn't always work out. Plus I'd say they do a good job of keeping champions balanced even when they do buff or nerf the champ's primary abilities. The system Riot uses works much better than the community would have us believe, so I'm good with it.

 

Like you said though, this is all subjective. It's all pretty much personal preference, except the "direct guidance" bit.

[cr47t]

Been thinking about this, been wondering who I should main/play as if I ever decide to get the game. Mainly thinking Ahri or Katarina since they are the only characters I know are from LoL -- are those good heroes/champs/whatevers to play as, and would you reccomend any others?

[Dad]

Been thinking about this, been wondering who I should main/play as if I ever decide to get the game. Mainly thinking Ahri or Katarina since they are the only characters I know are from LoL -- are those good heroes/champs/whatevers to play as, and would you reccomend any others?

 

Play the game first.  Figure out what in game you like to do.  Then decide on a champion.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

Play the game first.  Figure out what in game you like to do.  Then decide on a champion.

And then cry when you learn it's sheet or getting nerf waves over and over or a rework that changes the champion entirely.

Rip Malz, rip Azir, rip Mordekaiser, rip Teemo.

:3

 

But really, he has a point. Figure out your playstyle first. I thought I'd like adc/mid at first and never like being a support or jungle. I now realllllly like being a support, and can appreciate what a jungle does more now, though I still am awful at it and feel worthless to the team on most games.

[Dad]

And then cry when you learn it's sheet or getting nerf waves over and over or a rework that changes the champion entirely.

Rip Malz, rip Azir, rip Mordekaiser, rip Teemo.

:3

 

But really, he has a point. Figure out your playstyle first. I thought I'd like adc/mid at first and never like being a support or jungle. I now realllllly like being a support, and can appreciate what a jungle does more now, though I still am awful at it and feel worthless to the team on most games.

 

Wait.  Are we saying Malz is bad right now?  Azir, Morde and Teemo I can agree with.  But not Malz.  Not by a long shot.

[The Amazing Avian]

Azir can't be buffed because of pros.

[Brinolovania]

And then cry when you learn it's s*** or getting nerf waves over and over or a rework that changes the champion entirely.

Rip Malz, rip Azir, rip Mordekaiser, rip Teemo.

:3

 

But really, he has a point. Figure out your playstyle first. I thought I'd like adc/mid at first and never like being a support or jungle. I now realllllly like being a support, and can appreciate what a jungle does more now, though I still am awful at it and feel worthless to the team on most games.

Hey, don't be dissin' Teemo. A friend of mine got level 7 Teemo recently and he fuckin' destroys people with that champion. It's kinda ridiculous, actually.

[The Warden]

Teemo can be a pretty insufferable lane bully with that damn blind and poison. I once made a lane completely and UTTERLY unbearable for a Singed once.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

Wait.  Are we saying Malz is bad right now?  Azir, Morde and Teemo I can agree with.  But not Malz.  Not by a long shot.

Malz falls under the "completely redone and has lost his identity".

They redid him. Put his W on his ult. His ult now has no damage. Anything tanky makes his ult worthless, which is annoying considering percent health being mitigated doesn't make a ton of sense on paper.

 

His passive is now so good, it took power space out of the rest of his kit. And then got nerfed. Three times.

 

In an attempt to have him use his voidlings, they put them on his W. And then nerfed it. Twice. And still made Jungle Malz completely and utterly useless, despite promises otherwise.

 

The power space taken by his W and Passive caused his Q and E to lose some of theirs. His wave clear is now utter garbage and he is an incredibly mana hungry champion any level before about...8 or 9. His Q was nerfed prior to the final nerfs. 

 

Not only did they redo him essentially completely, but they allotted his budget to something and then preceded to make it literally his worst ability. 

I loved Malz pre Mage update. He had comboes. Potential early. And now Riot just likes to show that apparently all mages must be late game. I don't get it, nor do I particularly enjoy it. Add to it the poor itemization on mages, and I kinda got bored of midlane. I will say this about items- the niche items are really enjoyable. Rylai's. Liandry's. Seraph's. 

But when 80% of builds are MORELLO LUDENS ZHONYA'S MAGIC PEN DEATHCAP LETS GO it gets incredibly old. Hell, even RoA is kind of being splashed everywhere now. 

[Dad]

Azir can't be buffed because of pros.

 

funking thanks Bjergsen/Jensen.

 

Hey, don't be dissin' Teemo. A friend of mine got level 7 Teemo recently and he fuckin' destroys people with that champion. It's kinda ridiculous, actually.

 

funk that little toxic demon.  I secretly really enjoy playing Teemo actually.

 

Teemo can be a pretty insufferable lane bully with that damn blind and poison. I once made a lane completely and UTTERLY unbearable for a Singed once.

 

Poison > Poison

 

Malz falls under the "completely redone and has lost his identity".

They redid him. Put his W on his ult. His ult now has no damage. Anything tanky makes his ult worthless, which is annoying considering percent health being mitigated doesn't make a ton of sense on paper.

 

His passive is now so good, it took power space out of the rest of his kit. And then got nerfed. Three times.

 

In an attempt to have him use his voidlings, they put them on his W. And then nerfed it. Twice. And still made Jungle Malz completely and utterly useless, despite promises otherwise.

 

The power space taken by his W and Passive caused his Q and E to lose some of theirs. His wave clear is now utter garbage and he is an incredibly mana hungry champion any level before about...8 or 9. His Q was nerfed prior to the final nerfs. 

 

Not only did they redo him essentially completely, but they allotted his budget to something and then preceded to make it literally his worst ability. 

I loved Malz pre Mage update. He had comboes. Potential early. And now Riot just likes to show that apparently all mages must be late game. I don't get it, nor do I particularly enjoy it. Add to it the poor itemization on mages, and I kinda got bored of midlane. I will say this about items- the niche items are really enjoyable. Rylai's. Liandry's. Seraph's. 

But when 80% of builds are MORELLO LUDENS ZHONYA'S MAGIC PEN DEATHCAP LETS GO it gets incredibly old. Hell, even RoA is kind of being splashed everywhere now. 

 

How are you building Malz that you're running out of mana?  Also, are you maxing Q first or something?  Because a single creepwave if you last hit with 3 at rank ~3, will give you back a bunch of mana.  Not to mention Morello's.  Honestly I've had no issues with him.

[The Warden]

I build Tear on him as I always do, then I laugh at the very idea of mana problems. I will say though... I funking HATE his new ult. It was so god damn satisfying to press R on someone, and utterly delete them. Now? He's too stupidly reliant on his Void Doges, when that WASN'T his identity. His identity was hitting like a god damn truck against one person, NOT what he is now. A funking dog walker is what he is, and it's not even HARD to get away from the Voidlings either.

[Dad]

Are you guys like. . .skipping Rylais or something?  Because you perma-slow.  Voidlings, Q, E, you can't escape.

[The Warden]

I USE Rylai's, and they get away because once Visions pass, Voidlings becomes significantly less funking sticky.

 

Also Surrender @20 has got something neat.

 

 

What Yorick's re-worked model looks like. Also, it's finally here.

 

 

BAKER MANTHEON!

[Dad]

Mfw Yorick swole like Machamp and Pantheon fulfills his dreams.  We did it bois.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

I almost always go Morello into Rylai's. Any time before Morello is complete (though Lost Chapter helps), he has mana problems.

I level his E now. W used to have precedence, which might be what I'm thinking of.

[The Warden]

I found E always worth levelling. Before his rework by the time you got rank 3 E you could easily clear waves with just a Doran's Ring. It's a lot harder now, which is why more people level W in order to bully their lane opponent.

 

Also pre-rework, I always laughed when enemy Malz used their Q to farm.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

E was always his farming tool. They just changed it a percent mana gain, making it weaker early (like, 5 mana), vs what it used to be. Additionally, they lowered the duration and damage of his E but allow it to be refreshed via his Q...making him incredibly mana hungry.

And when his Voidlings were actually good (weeks one and two of the mage sheet), his W got leveled more that his E did simply because his W could actually clear. Like it should. Because. You know. Minions fighting minions.

Now, not only can he not do jungle at all, his W is now the worst part of his entire kit.

[cr47t]

Sorry to cut in again, but can someone explain the game to me? (The game mechanics, how it works, etc.)

[The Amazing Avian]

Instead of asking just try it. It's not like you're paying for anything

[Brinolovania]

YOU WILL REMEMBER YORICK MORI

 

http://oce.leagueoflegends.com/en/featured/yorick-champion-update

 

It's not up on NA for some reason, but here's the Yorick rework. He's kinda similar to Nazeebo from HotS (their W's are basically identical), but he looks pretty damn cool. Nice to see we have an actually cool Necromancer now instead of old Yorick's blind ghoulie spam, both gameplay and graphics-wise. Also, at the bottom they talk about an ult he had in development that was removed. It would have been really stupid, but I'm kinda sad they didn't go with it because it would have been awesome and hilarious.