Yu-Gi-Oh! Rulings Questions

[evilfusion]

I think the ruling applies specifically to hard OPT clauses. You can't cheat effect re-use by changing the name.

[dizzyshot]

This is another stupid question that I forgot to ask awhile back. Am I allowed to use more xyz material then needed to xyz summon? Example using 3 xyz material to summon #17

[Miror B]

This is another stupid question that I forgot to ask awhile back. Am I allowed to use more xyz material then needed to xyz summon? Example using 3 xyz material to summon #17

No. The card text is very precise on what they require for Xyz Materials.

[Expelsword]

Why is it (at least on DevPro) that I cannot Normal Summon Star Seraph Scepter, add Star Seraph Sovereign to my  hand, and then Special Summon it, but I can Normal Scepter, Special Sovereign, then add another to my hand and Special Summon that one too?

 

Shouldn't the last thing in both cases be me adding a card to my hand, not the Summon of a monster?

[evilfusion]

Why is it (at least on DevPro) that I cannot Normal Summon Star Seraph Scepter, add Star Seraph Sovereign to my  hand, and then Special Summon it, but I can Normal Scepter, Special Sovereign, then add another to my hand and Special Summon that one too?

 

Shouldn't the last thing in both cases be me adding a card to my hand, not the Summon of a monster?

 

It's probably a bug. As far as I can tell, you're correct and should not be able to SS the copy you added to your hand with Scepter's effect, as the Sovereign added to your hand was not in your hand when its Trigger was fulfilled. Even though Soverign doesn't miss the timing, it needs to be in your hand when that timing occurs.

[Slinky]

It's probably a bug. As far as I can tell, you're correct and should not be able to SS the copy you added to your hand with Scepter's effect, as the Sovereign added to your hand was not in your hand when its Trigger was fulfilled. Even though Soverign doesn't miss the timing, it needs to be in your hand when that timing occurs.

 

No, it doesn't.

The hand is an unknown zone. The added soverign assumes the condition is met BECAUSE it can't miss the timing and your opponent doesnt know the contents of your hand to check for the third soverign, and is able to activate. This ONLY applies if you chain Soverign to Scepter. Just summoning sceptor and adding Sov won't trigger it.

 

It is not a glitch, Konami made an official ruling on this. Devpro is correct here. Basically, the hand being an unknown zone is a key part here.

[Expelsword]

That... doesn't make sense to me. What does the opponent not knowing what's in your hand have to do with anything?

[Slinky]

That... doesn't make sense to me. What does the opponent not knowing what's in your hand have to do with anything?

 

Because the opponent can't actually confirm if the condition was met (BECAUSE they dont know if the third sovereign is there), the condition is assumed to be met. I actually forgot how I was going to word this, but it is the correct ruling.

 

Its a combination of multiple factors. A Summon occurred within the resolution of the chain. Sovereign cannot miss timing. The hand is an unknown zone. 

I'll try to explain it better later because my mind is derping right now.

 

But until then:

Q: If Star Seraph Scepter is Summoned, and then uses its first effect to add a “Star Seraph” monster from the Deck to the hand, but I also activate the effect of a Star Seraph Sovereign in my hand at the same time by chaining to Star Seraph Scepter, is it possible to activate the effect of a Star Seraph Sovereign that is added to my hand by the effect of Star Seraph Scepter afterwards?

A: In this case, if Star Seraph Scepter is Chain Link 1 and the Star Seraph Sovereign in your hand is Chain Link 2, you will first Special Summon Star Seraph Sovereign by its effect and draw 1 card, then add the second Star Seraph Sovereign to your hand by the effect of Star Seraph Scepter. Because you Special Summoned a “Star Seraph” monster during the previous chain, the timing for the second Star Seraph Sovereign that was added to your hand is still correct, and you can activate its effect.

http://www.ygorganization.com/ocg-06052014-rulings/

they dont go into heavy detail as to why it works, because they don't need to.

 

This explains the relevance of the "Hand is an unknown zone" http://teamhordesofdarkness.virtuaboard.com/t613-star-seraph-scepter-and-double-star-seraph-sovereign

 

Ultimately, it follows the same ruling as Generation Shift vs. Fire Kings. Even though the Fire King is added after the destruction occurs, it can still be special summoned.

[Darj]

If I control 1 "Traptrix Trap Hole Nightmare" and 1 "Void Trap Hole", and my opponent's Special Summons, let's say, Nephilim and chooses to not activate its effect, can I activate Void Trap Hole on its Summon and destroy it? Or somehow I miss the timing because I waited for the opponent to choose between activating or not Nephilim's effect and thus we are no longer on the "Nephilim was Special Summoned" step (so to speak)?

[Slinky]

If I control 1 "Traptrix Trap Hole Nightmare" and 1 "Void Trap Hole", and my opponent's Special Summons, let's say, Nephilim and chooses to not activate its effect, can I activate Void Trap Hole on its Summon and destroy it? Or somehow I miss the timing because I waited for the opponent to choose between activating or not Nephilim's effect and thus we are no longer on the "Nephilim was Special Summoned" step (so to speak)?

 

It can still be activated. They are just choosing to not utilize chain link 1.

[Atypical-Abbie]

If I control 1 "Traptrix Trap Hole Nightmare" and 1 "Void Trap Hole", and my opponent's Special Summons, let's say, Nephilim and chooses to not activate its effect, can I activate Void Trap Hole on its Summon and destroy it? Or somehow I miss the timing because I waited for the opponent to choose between activating or not Nephilim's effect and thus we are no longer on the "Nephilim was Special Summoned" step (so to speak)?

Trap Cards are not like Trigger Effects, and even if they were, your opponent is still the one who chooses to activate it first, then you choose to, even if they don't activate it, you can still put your card on the Chain. You can activate the Trap Card after Trigger Effects have been activated.

[darkwolf777]

Why is it (at least on DevPro) that I cannot Normal Summon Star Seraph Scepter, add Star Seraph Sovereign to my  hand, and then Special Summon it, but I can Normal Scepter, Special Sovereign, then add another to my hand and Special Summon that one too?

 

Shouldn't the last thing in both cases be me adding a card to my hand, not the Summon of a monster?

 

Scenario A:

 

Step 1: Normal Summon Star Seraph Scepter.

Step 2: "Star Seraph Scepter" actives its effect.

Step 3: Star Seraph Scepter's effect resolves, adding "Star Seraph Soverign" to your hand.

 

A Normal Summon is not a scenario that starts a chain of any sort.  An effect that response to the Success Normal Summon must activate after the Successful Normal summon and no time later.  That means you'd have to have activated "Star Seraph Scepter" after Step 1, but Star Seraph Scepter was not in your hand at that point in time.

 

Scenario B:

 

Step 1: Normal Summon Star Seraph Scepter

Step 2: Activation: Begin The Chain:

 

Chain Link 1 - Star Seraph Scepter

Chain Link 2 - Star Seraph Soverign (In your hand).

 

Step 3: Resolving:

 

Chain Link #2 - Star Seraph Soverign is Special Summoned

Chain Link #1 - Star Seraph Scepter adds  a "Star Seraph Soverign" to your hand.

 

Step 4: The newly added "Star Seraph Soverign" activates from your hand in response to "A Star Seraph monster was Special Summoned", in this case, the first "Star Seraph Soverign" that was in the previous chain.

 

Issues to point out: The second Star Seraph Soverign has an "If" condition which means it cannot miss the timing at any point.  If its conditions are met within the previous chain, then it may be activated when you start a new chain, provided the card itself could see its condition being triggered (for cards on the Field and Graveyard, aka cards in play).  Cards in the hand, or otherwise Private zones, do not need to be verified in the same manner. 

 

Next, cards in the hand are considered Private information.  There is no verification process for them to see if "they existed in order to view the conditions that triggered them", in this case, the second Star Seraph Soverign was not in the Hand at the time the "Star Seraph was Special Summoned" which is the trigger, but only you as the owner only know that.  The opponent does not.  Since this is a card that activates from the hand, whether it was in the hand or not at the time is irrelevant here as a player does not need to prove that it was the same "Star Seraph Soverign" or a different one activating from the hand and as such can activate it as if it viewed its activation condition in its entirety.  This is still possible even if 2 Star Seraph Soverigns are already in play and you're trying to summon the third.

 

As I always said in the past, the game does not work at a human level logic, but with its own logic.  To understand this game, you must understand the game's logic.  It does not follow obvious situations that the humans playing can see and stays very localized in the current timing.

 

And although already said, the second Star Seraph Soverign is not responding to the original Normal Summon of Star Seraph Scepter, it is responding to the Star Seraph Soverign that was Special Summoned in the chain.

 

 

Also note: Cards that reveal a player's hand will not bypass situations like this.  The hand is always considered Private.  This also goes for cards that reveal the deck (which is basically Convulsion of Nature)

 

Also, hello everyone :o

[Slinky]

Scenario A:

 

Step 1: Normal Summon Star Seraph Scepter.

Step 2: "Star Seraph Scepter" actives its effect.

Step 3: Star Seraph Scepter's effect resolves, adding "Star Seraph Soverign" to your hand.

 

A Normal Summon is not a scenario that starts a chain of any sort.  An effect that response to the Success Normal Summon must activate after the Successful Normal summon and no time later.  That means you'd have to have activated "Star Seraph Scepter" after Step 1, but Star Seraph Scepter was not in your hand at that point in time.

 

Scenario B:

 

Step 1: Normal Summon Star Seraph Scepter

Step 2: Activation: Begin The Chain:

 

Chain Link 1 - Star Seraph Scepter

Chain Link 2 - Star Seraph Soverign (In your hand).

 

Step 3: Resolving:

 

Chain Link #2 - Star Seraph Soverign is Special Summoned

Chain Link #1 - Star Seraph Scepter adds  a "Star Seraph Soverign" to your hand.

 

Step 4: The newly added "Star Seraph Soverign" activates from your hand in response to "A Star Seraph monster was Special Summoned", in this case, the first "Star Seraph Soverign" that was in the previous chain.

 

Issues to point out: The second Star Seraph Soverign has an "If" condition which means it cannot miss the timing at any point.  If its conditions are met within the previous chain, then it may be activated when you start a new chain, provided the card itself could see its condition being triggered (for cards on the Field and Graveyard, aka cards in play).  Cards in the hand, or otherwise Private zones, do not need to be verified in the same manner. 

 

Next, cards in the hand are considered Private information.  There is no verification process for them to see if "they existed in order to view the conditions that triggered them", in this case, the second Star Seraph Soverign was not in the Hand at the time the "Star Seraph was Special Summoned" which is the trigger, but only you as the owner only know that.  The opponent does not.  Since this is a card that activates from the hand, whether it was in the hand or not at the time is irrelevant here as a player does not need to prove that it was the same "Star Seraph Soverign" or a different one activating from the hand and as such can activate it as if it viewed its activation condition in its entirety.  This is still possible even if 2 Star Seraph Soverigns are already in play and you're trying to summon the third.

 

And although already said, the second Star Seraph Soverign is not responding to the original Normal Summon of Star Seraph Scepter, it is responding to the Star Seraph Soverign that was Special Summoned in the chain.

 

 

Also note: Cards that reveal a player's hand will not bypass situations like this.  The hand is always considered Private.  This also goes for cards that reveal the deck (which is basically Convulsion of Nature)

 

Also, hello everyone :o

 

This.. is actually a fantastic way of explaining it. Well done.

[darkwolf777]

Thanks.  Been doing this for a long time DysonSlinky, I just haven't been here in a while :)  I know this game incredibly well and its mechanics.  While not perfect still, I can still work my way around a lot of things most players cannot.

 

Yugioh has rules, it has set mechanics, its not "random" as most people think.  The problem is, 98% of those mechanics are unexplained through the game's manuals and must be explained through its rulings and the pieces put together.

 

There are very few legit BKSS rulings in Yugioh, such as "Null and Void".  Players might mark a lot of things as BKSS when they have valid reasons for being ruled as such.

[dizzyshot]

Before I go out and try to use Vampire Sorcerer I need some clarification on it's last effect.

 

Sorcerer's last effect

 "...You can banish this card from your Graveyard; 1 DARK "Vampire" monster you Normal Summon this turn can be Summoned without Tributing."

 

Thanks for any clarification you can make. 

[Atypical-Abbie]

Before I go out and try to use Vampire Sorcerer I need some clarification on it's last effect.

 

Sorcerer's last effect

 "...You can banish this card from your Graveyard; 1 DARK "Vampire" monster you Normal Summon this turn can be Summoned without Tributing."

 

Thanks for any clarification you can make. 

It's basically just allowing you to Normal Summon without Tributing that turn. It doesn't give you an extra Normal Summon, if that's what you're thinking.

 

EDIT:

Oh hey, darkwolf777, I remember you from here, you were pretty active in this thread from what I recall.

[Expelsword]

Can I use Ritual Foregone on Necloths?

[Blake]

Can I use Ritual Foregone on Necloths?

You cannot.

 

All Necloth Ritual Monsters are nomis, meaning they can only be summoned by the listed condition.

[goodfusion]

If you use "Instant Fusion" to summon a Fusion Monster, and then activate "Forbidden Lance" by targeting that Fusion Monster, will it be able to attack and will it be destroyed during the End phase?

[evilfusion]

If you use "Instant Fusion" to summon a Fusion Monster, and then activate "Forbidden Lance" by targeting that Fusion Monster, will it be able to attack and will it be destroyed during the End phase?

 

No, it still can't attack, and it will still be destroyed.

[Expelsword]

Why does Number 96: Dark Mist apparently not target when it makes reference to a specific monster's ATK? (The one it attacks.)

[Atypical-Abbie]

Why does Number 96: Dark Mist apparently not target when it makes reference to a specific monster's ATK? (The one it attacks.)

Because...that's how Konami designed it? There's really nothing else to it, that's just how it was designed. This isn't really a Ruling question

[evilfusion]

Why does Number 96: Dark Mist apparently not target when it makes reference to a specific monster's ATK? (The one it attacks.)

 

There are some cards that say to target the other monster (Galaxy-Eyes, D-Prison, etc), and then there are some that just affect the opposing battling monster without targeting. It's not really an inconsistency.

[Expelsword]

Dragunity Dux has lost its effect to Breakthrough Skill.

I use Dragunity Spear of Destiny on it to equip Phalanx. Because I'm equipping Phalanx by the effect of Spear and not Dux's own effect, Phalanx should be legally equiped and not destroyed, right?

 

On DevPro this is not the case, what is correct?

[Atypical-Abbie]

Dragunity Dux has lost its effect to Breakthrough Skill.

I use Dragunity Spear of Destiny on it to equip Phalanx. Because I'm equipping Phalanx by the effect of Spear and not Dux's own effect, Phalanx should be legally equiped and not destroyed, right?

 

On DevPro this is not the case, what is correct?

It will stay, only if the effects of the monster that has an effect that equips will the equip go away, this is just a bug.

 

"Suppose that the effect of a monster like "Dragunity Dux" or "Dragunity Legionnaire" has its effect resolve and it equips itself with a Level 3 or lower "Dragunity" monster. If the effect of "Skill Drain" is then applied, then "Dragunity Dux" can no longer be equipped with a monster by its own effect, so the Level 3 or lower "Dragunity" monster equipped to it is destroyed and sent to the Graveyard."